Page 12 of 37 FirstFirst ...
2
10
11
12
13
14
22
... LastLast
  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Migrin View Post
    Thank you very much for writing this guide. I have one remeaining question mark though. According to the guide Sacred Shield and Eternal Flame are both valid options. How ever, most of the people discussing this thread seem to be using Eternal Flame. Is this a pure throughput decision? Not sure about this but I would assume that a 30 second hot mostly ends up as overhealing in most cases.
    The difference is that Eternal Flame can be put on everyone in the raid and applies our Mastery to everyone, causing a minor version of the Disc Priest effect when AoE is hitting/hits, where as Sacred Shield comparatively only reduces the damage the tank takes, which the Eternal Flame HoTs (which transfer at full health) ticking through Beacon, do as good as SS or even better

  2. #222
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    The difference is that Eternal Flame can be put on everyone in the raid and applies our Mastery to everyone, causing a minor version of the Disc Priest effect when AoE is hitting/hits, where as Sacred Shield comparatively only reduces the damage the tank takes, which the Eternal Flame HoTs (which transfer at full health) ticking through Beacon, do as good as SS or even better
    Thank you for that explanation.

  3. #223
    High Overlord Durbi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    164
    Hi guys

    if anyone has time i would appreciate if u go though logs of our holy paladin in raids and give me some more insight on what he's doing terribly wrong, because there must be something other then what i'm noticing and that's not using Eternal flame often enough, his rank limits are almost never above 60% or 65% which honestly is not good

    this is his armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nkeeley/simple

    and these are logs, we had 2 separate but u can find quite a few raid logs over the last few weeks:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/238894/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/4139/

    i'm not a big paladin expert so can't help him as much as i would so i anyone can help it would be awesome

  4. #224
    Got no idea what happened to the post i wrote 15 min ago, but ill do a quick recap since it got deleted.

    His holy shock usage is terrible. He should be looking at the dubble amount. Use it on CD more or less. --> dubble holy power means that he can roll dubble EFs, or stack up alot of holy power for heavy aoe phases.. Light of Dawn -> Holy Radiance -> Holy Shock --> Light of Dawn, etcetc. With more Holy power he will also be so much more mana efficient

    Never using Flash heal. Its expensive, but its heals for alot and got fast cast time. Tell him to get som reflexes, healing is about saving people. He has 0 Flash of lights on heal megaera, thats pretty strange, its insane damage going out. Especially if he has full mana at head 6/7 he might aswell spend it. He has the least healing and the most overhealing. Tell him to react faster.

    Low damage phases = SPAM holy light, togheter with Holy shock on CD's. He seem to be casting Divine Light and interrupt it if its about to overheal. Not so good as spamming Holy Light. Especially with beacon on tank.

    And worst of all, does he even use his cooldowns, Angel, wings and divine favor! huh!?

  5. #225
    Fluffy Kitten Fhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Carnished Toast
    Posts
    3,219
    Quote Originally Posted by Stinalicious View Post
    Got no idea what happened to the post i wrote 15 min ago, but ill do a quick recap since it got deleted.
    The spam filter erroneously flagged both your posts as spam, hence they were not showing up, but I've gone ahead and approve them. Apologies!

    Paladin and D3 Moderator | MMO-C Guidelines | Signature and avatar art by Dancing Hare

  6. #226
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    4,331
    Quote Originally Posted by DurbTh View Post
    if anyone has time i would appreciate if u go though logs of our holy paladin in raids and give me some more insight on what he's doing terribly wrong, because there must be something other then what i'm noticing and that's not using Eternal flame often enough, his rank limits are almost never above 60% or 65% which honestly is not good
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/n...=12498&e=13074

    average delay between Holy Shocks: 14.73 seconds (39 out of 95 possible used)
    29 casts of Divine Light, but only 5 were on the Beacon for ToR
    8 HP generated from Holy Radiance over 9:35

    there's his problem ^^

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Holy Avenger isn't weak at all. You just have to know how to use it. I have definitely found myself switching to it on some fights this tier (so far 6/12 25m).
    Don't get me wrong, I use it all the time, I'm only arguing against its use by default. On some fights it is VERY good, but on others I get zero use out of it. Let me give you an example - I took HA for Magaera thinking that it'd help with aoe throughput during rampage.. which it would have.. except for the fact that we had real raid cooldowns available anyway and I hardly even needed to heal. You can see HERE if you select Wilferel how even though I'm sure HA was available at that point, I didn't really need to do much healing since we had boomkin tranq available. DP on the other hand would have saved me mana throughout the fight and generally allowed me more overall throughput.

    HA has its uses and when its good its GOOD, but I think people shy away from DP when perhaps they shouldn't.

  8. #228
    High Overlord Durbi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    164
    Thanks for the help guys, i'll talk to him and try to sort it out

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I use it all the time, I'm only arguing against its use by default. On some fights it is VERY good, but on others I get zero use out of it. Let me give you an example - I took HA for Magaera thinking that it'd help with aoe throughput during rampage.. which it would have.. except for the fact that we had real raid cooldowns available anyway and I hardly even needed to heal. You can see HERE if you select Wilferel how even though I'm sure HA was available at that point, I didn't really need to do much healing since we had boomkin tranq available. DP on the other hand would have saved me mana throughout the fight and generally allowed me more overall throughput.

    HA has its uses and when its good its GOOD, but I think people shy away from DP when perhaps they shouldn't.
    I havn't even touched that tier in talents, i feel like DP is a nobrainer best choise for any fight, apart from just a few were HA might beat it, but HA is too situational, and DP is an awesome mana conservative talent.

    OP: Your pally needs to use holy shock on cooldown. It's nr 1 prio spell unless you're at 5 holy power.

  10. #230
    Just watched 2 random logs so basically :

    - Terrible holy shock usage > no holy power > low healing
    - Uses too much Divine light, especially on people without beacon, it can be nice to save someone but spamming it is wrong.
    - Terrible CD usage, in both logs i looked at he didn't use Avenging wrath/Divine purpose/Guardian AT ALL even though pretty much all fights now requires some kind of burst healing phase.
    - His Eternal flame uptime on the tanks is really bad as well (if he casts them on the tanks at all)
    - Doesn't really uses his hand of protec/sac at all either.

  11. #231
    I just wanted to add, unless his gear is in a very specific place he shouldn't be using glyph of illumination in his holy spec.

  12. #232
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Baltimore, Maryland
    Posts
    1,848
    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I use it all the time, I'm only arguing against its use by default. On some fights it is VERY good, but on others I get zero use out of it. Let me give you an example - I took HA for Magaera thinking that it'd help with aoe throughput during rampage.. which it would have.. except for the fact that we had real raid cooldowns available anyway and I hardly even needed to heal. You can see HERE if you select Wilferel how even though I'm sure HA was available at that point, I didn't really need to do much healing since we had boomkin tranq available. DP on the other hand would have saved me mana throughout the fight and generally allowed me more overall throughput.

    HA has its uses and when its good its GOOD, but I think people shy away from DP when perhaps they shouldn't.
    I pick up HA for Magaera and find it very useful. I run 25m and we do have the other cooldowns but I still get a ton of healing out. At this point I use HA on almost every fight. Primordius is the only one I can think of right now that I am specific about keeping DP. And I think it is the opposite, people cling to DP/tier 14 EF blanketing playstyle when they really should be considering other talents. There is no "default talent", spec into what you and your raid group needs for the current fight rather than limiting yourself.
    Last edited by Freia; 2013-03-18 at 05:50 PM.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    I pick up HA for Magaera and find it very useful.
    On pretty much any fight with regular stack up and AoE heal phases HA is great. Magaera is perfect for this.

  14. #234
    I know these are some basic questions, but they're questions I haven't' been able to find answers to yet.

    Background: My Paladin has been my Main since I started playing 3 years ago. I started as Ret, but started tanking in Cata, so Prot became my main spec. Tried healing on my pally for a few weeks towards the end of cataclysm, but switched back to ret once Mists came back. Recently became interested in finally learning to heal on my Pally, so I re-specced to Holy as my offspec.

    Questions:

    1. Eternal Glory & Holy Power Generation- I've read tons of guides and watched a bunch of videos. A lot of Paladins talk about spreading Eternal Glory around. Holy Power generation seems a bit slow, so by the time I have EG on the two tanks and one other raid member, I have to refresh the first tank. Is HP generation supposed to be that slow? Spamming Divine Light and/or Holy Radiance on my Beacon target speeds things up, but it's mana heavy.

    2. Beacon of Light - I understand how Beacon works for the most part, but... If I heal my beacon target with Holy Light, does the beaconed target get twice the heal? Or does the "free heal" only come if I heal another target other than the beaconed player?

  15. #235
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by Javster View Post
    I know these are some basic questions, but they're questions I haven't' been able to find answers to yet.

    Background: My Paladin has been my Main since I started playing 3 years ago. I started as Ret, but started tanking in Cata, so Prot became my main spec. Tried healing on my pally for a few weeks towards the end of cataclysm, but switched back to ret once Mists came back. Recently became interested in finally learning to heal on my Pally, so I re-specced to Holy as my offspec.

    Questions:

    1. Eternal Glory & Holy Power Generation- I've read tons of guides and watched a bunch of videos. A lot of Paladins talk about spreading Eternal Glory around. Holy Power generation seems a bit slow, so by the time I have EG on the two tanks and one other raid member, I have to refresh the first tank. Is HP generation supposed to be that slow? Spamming Divine Light and/or Holy Radiance on my Beacon target speeds things up, but it's mana heavy.

    2. Beacon of Light - I understand how Beacon works for the most part, but... If I heal my beacon target with Holy Light, does the beaconed target get twice the heal? Or does the "free heal" only come if I heal another target other than the beaconed player?
    Hi Javster

    If you are just gearing up and doing 5 man instances your holy power generation will be dramatically slower than it is in raids because you will rarely use divine light and holy radiance. One way to speed up your hp generation is using crusader strike. Many people recommend not to do it but still, especially in 5 man instances combined with eternal flame I find this a good way to have more poeple covered with your hot, thus providing a lot of heal to the group and your tank thorugh beacon. Using devine purpose as a talent also is strong fro EF blanketing and mana conservation.

    Beacon will not copy your direct heals if cast on to the target with the beacon buff. How ever, you should consider that they will apply your mastery. This is not the case with copied healing spells. So when only your Tank is taking damage, it still can be beneficial to spam heal the tank directly in stead of healing someone else in order to profit from your mastery. This is especially true fro divine light and flash of light which will also generate 1 hp and heal the tank for more because beacon only transfers 50% of those heals.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Migrin View Post
    Hi Javster

    If you are just gearing up and doing 5 man instances your holy power generation will be dramatically slower than it is in raids because you will rarely use divine light and holy radiance. One way to speed up your hp generation is using crusader strike. Many people recommend not to do it but still, especially in 5 man instances combined with eternal flame I find this a good way to have more poeple covered with your hot, thus providing a lot of heal to the group and your tank thorugh beacon. Using devine purpose as a talent also is strong fro EF blanketing and mana conservation.

    Beacon will not copy your direct heals if cast on to the target with the beacon buff. How ever, you should consider that they will apply your mastery. This is not the case with copied healing spells. So when only your Tank is taking damage, it still can be beneficial to spam heal the tank directly in stead of healing someone else in order to profit from your mastery. This is especially true fro divine light and flash of light which will also generate 1 hp and heal the tank for more because beacon only transfers 50% of those heals.
    I strongly advise against CS for HP generation. It was somewhat viable with the pvp 4p due to the significant efficiency boost on EF. Especially on steady damage fights like garalon it was useful.

    @Javster - You're probably assuming you have to EF with 3HP - there's actually nothing wrong with using 1 or 2HP EFs.

    Basically what he said about beacon is right.

  17. #237
    Hello fellow Paladins i have got a few questions i would like to ask since i switched to fulltime healing in our guild and got a kind of special case in our setup so that doing it the "normal way" (ef blanketing with mastery built) feels a bit fruitless.

    I am healing with two disc priests in 3 heal encounter (yeah lucky me) and so a huge portion of ef is going into shields so we sat together and thought about a few ways to increase our synergies.

    Question: Would it make sense to forget about ef and specc into ss in order to let the discs handle most of the raiddmg via atonement and me handle spike dmg (heavy dmg on a few players f.e. tanks or debuff targets) and therefore switch from my mastery heavy gear to a more haste leaning one to really be the more responsive healer in our setup to counter spike dmg ? Is it a valid option?

  18. #238
    Tbh with two disc priests you're probably better completely moving away from shields and mastery. If I was the third healer with two disc priests I'd probably do a full haste reforge and play with LoD rather than EF (which will mean you'll just chuck your SS on the tank). They have the shieding and pre-empting of damage covered. You're better being the reactive healer.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by kuroma View Post
    Hello fellow Paladins i have got a few questions i would like to ask since i switched to fulltime healing in our guild and got a kind of special case in our setup so that doing it the "normal way" (ef blanketing with mastery built) feels a bit fruitless.

    I am healing with two disc priests in 3 heal encounter (yeah lucky me) and so a huge portion of ef is going into shields so we sat together and thought about a few ways to increase our synergies.

    Question: Would it make sense to forget about ef and specc into ss in order to let the discs handle most of the raiddmg via atonement and me handle spike dmg (heavy dmg on a few players f.e. tanks or debuff targets) and therefore switch from my mastery heavy gear to a more haste leaning one to really be the more responsive healer in our setup to counter spike dmg ? Is it a valid option?
    I play with a disc and have a disc and have a few points to make -

    No other healer will match atonement healing for reaction to spike damage (assuming they're spamming atonement-generating abilities basically at all times, which they usually do) because atonement's healing target is determined after the damage is dealt, meaning that you couldnt possibly get a cast-time heal off before atonement heals that person. Not to say you cant do triage healing (its my preferred style as well) but its not like you're going to be beating a disc to the punch.

    ef 'blanketing' is a gimmick (one which has its fair share of uses, but still a gimmick). If you heal with ef normally (use it for real heals not overheal & shields) you'll be perfectly fine in a group with disc healers.

    SS is probably fine on some fights, but really doesn't shield for that much and the delay after swapping makes it really annoying to optimize.

    If you think you're doing a fine job but the disc priests are stealing your heals, then the fight is too easy to 3 heal. A fight that strains the requirements of all 3 healers will see them doing a fairly similar amount of healing if they're similarly skilled.

    Track their spirit shells (and PWS) on your raid frames and it'll be a lot easier to not waste your mana healing people who don't need it.

  20. #240
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    297
    I realize this is very late, but I have updated the original guide to cover the main changes for 5.2. There weren't too many, and I apologize for the updates being made so late.

    I'm not currently raiding (or even playing actively for that matter), but I will do my best to keep this guide updated with the basic information. I very much appreciate the raiders who answer questions for people as I am no longer capable of answering raid related questions.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •