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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorant View Post
    High haste build may be a bit problematic in heroics. At least last night I was struggling when 2 healing Norushen 10HC with 15.7k spirit, 9.5k mastery and with 3.5k haste BP. I am gemming int in red sockets and pure spirit in blues with int+mastery in oranges. With one trip down I was at 245k hps at berserk and really struggled to keep raid alive for last 30 secs due to being quite oom. With more haste I doubt I could have been able to keep everyone alive.

    I might try going for 2nd haste breakpoint at some point but not before I get some more gear (ilvl 549 atm). At least amplification trinket would be needed for that I think.
    On progression I can't see the 2nd breakpoint being attainable for anyone but the luckiest of players, you'll be lucky to have 14.5k spirit if you didn't plan in advanced and grab the haste pieces from ToT, from simple reforging. But with the amp trinket and even just full normal gear, you can easily get the 4th breakpoint and 15k spirit, with all the gem slots still open to play with, so if all you want is the 3rd you'll have no problems getting high enough spirit.

  2. #442
    Pandaren Monk Freia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    On progression I can't see the 2nd breakpoint being attainable for anyone but the luckiest of players, you'll be lucky to have 14.5k spirit if you didn't plan in advanced and grab the haste pieces from ToT, from simple reforging. But with the amp trinket and even just full normal gear, you can easily get the 4th breakpoint and 15k spirit, with all the gem slots still open to play with, so if all you want is the 3rd you'll have no problems getting high enough spirit.
    I don't agree with that at all. You can definitely hit the break point and get at least 15k and probably 16k spirit if you were full heroic ToT gear and some normal pieces. It is just about whether is it worth it, and to me it wasn't.

    At 556 with the flex version of the amp trinket now I can easily get the 2nd breakpoint, 16k spirit, and keep 30% mastery buffed (only gem I would use is 1 reckless). I am just not convinced it is worth it. I was planning on waiting for 560ilvl before going for it, if at all.

  3. #443
    I run 14.8k spirit and the 7170 BP with no mana issues. We have 1 MTT to help, but mostly I just am smart with my spells. If I have 1 second until HS comes up, and people are topped, I don't bother cramming a 100% overheal HR into the rotation. It has next to no effect on overall output, but does a lot for keeping mana.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    I don't agree with that at all. You can definitely hit the break point and get at least 15k and probably 16k spirit if you were full heroic ToT gear and some normal pieces. It is just about whether is it worth it, and to me it wasn't.

    At 556 with the flex version of the amp trinket now I can easily get the 2nd breakpoint, 16k spirit, and keep 30% mastery buffed (only gem I would use is 1 reckless). I am just not convinced it is worth it. I was planning on waiting for 560ilvl before going for it, if at all.
    With heroic gear yes, but in the instance that you have full heroic gear you may as well refer to the part of my post that talks about SoO normal gear, as they're only 10 ilvls different comparative to ~20 ilvls you'd gain going from equivalent tiers (before upgrades). In the case of full heroic you'd quite easily have the 7170 + 15k before even stepping into SoO, and should really be more interested in either the 3rd breakpoint or the 17-18k Spirit mark.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sockerbit View Post
    I run 14.8k spirit and the 7170 BP with no mana issues. We have 1 MTT to help, but mostly I just am smart with my spells. If I have 1 second until HS comes up, and people are topped, I don't bother cramming a 100% overheal HR into the rotation. It has next to no effect on overall output, but does a lot for keeping mana.
    I'm currently able to run 13k spirit and 7170, 2 healing everything with only minor stumbles when something in the fight goes wrong, provided you can be cool, calm and collected you'll be able to run very low levels as you suggest. Its heroic content that really requires that extra bit of juice that you get from 15k+.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    I'm currently able to run 13k spirit and 7170, 2 healing everything with only minor stumbles when something in the fight goes wrong, provided you can be cool, calm and collected you'll be able to run very low levels as you suggest. Its heroic content that really requires that extra bit of juice that you get from 15k+.
    Sorry, I should've said that with 14.8k, 7170 build I do 25man heroics and no mana problems.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by sockerbit View Post
    Sorry, I should've said that with 14.8k, 7170 build I do 25man heroics and no mana problems.
    Who is this masked man?

  7. #447
    Grunt Roselle's Avatar
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    Great guide you have here, I found the information about 5.4's stat priorities to be extremely helpful.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    Who is this masked man?
    (Hami)Shhhhh. A secret.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by sockerbit View Post
    Sorry, I should've said that with 14.8k, 7170 build I do 25man heroics and no mana problems.
    Could you please post some logs? I would like to see how efficient your healing is so I can improve.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Fayth View Post
    Could you please post some logs? I would like to see how efficient your healing is so I can improve.
    I can't post links yet. Look for Lvg of Raiding Rainbows on US-Illidan.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by sockerbit View Post
    I can't post links yet. Look for Lvg of Raiding Rainbows on US-Illidan.
    You're the worst at keeping secrets.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolzzy View Post
    I'll be trying this out monday. Here's my armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...olzzy/advanced

    Care to link yours?


    Armory

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is everyone a 10m healer here?

    I feel like everyone is basing the low spirit EF build around a 10m, where you don't have to heal as much. It's giving the 25m hpals a bad reference.

    For 10m, sure you may be able to go full mastery as EF and continue putting out numbers, but 25m is far harder thing to master. It's one thing to be the best of 2, it's another thing to be the best of 7 healers. Some fights we'll lose to MW, some fights we'll lose to Rsham, but I want to come so close that they're blown away.

    I think that that build is a SH full INT Mastery>Crit>Haste>Spirit build.

    Going SH and playing it well means that very little mana is actually spent on your eventual HR. I actually figured that my healing would be mastery=LoD=HoR>everything. It ending up being Mast=LoD>everything by a LONG shot. However, the HRs were hitting for 250k and were a vital component to my healing. The LoD casting was kind of by choice. You can either cast on 4 or 5 HoPo based on the situation and that will determine your ranking/spot as a healer. It feels far more bursty that an EF healer in that you can continue with your high output for a bit longer. I don't think EF healing is bad, I just think SH fits into more fights and is something Hpals should get used to.

    The talent suggestion shouldn't be so general and should go into a "by fight" suggestion list.

    Also, since you all seem to be 10m, how is SS not as good? A talent like that is SO overpowered in 10m
    Last edited by Deipotent; 2013-09-23 at 11:00 PM.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Deipotent View Post
    Is everyone a 10m healer here?
    Several of the people discussing in this thread are 25 man raiders, and they mostly seem to agree that you need something more like Int > Spi (16k+) > Mastery > Haste = Crit, or something to that effect. I'm not sure where you're coming from with the 'don't have to heal as much' argument though, when you use the example of 7 healers? If you're doing it with that many and you're coming top, something is very wrong with your other healers, or you have 6 other Holy Paladins... If you want a truly similar experience, it would be 2/10 vs 5/25.

    And SS isn't good in 10m because its a huge loss of healing ability for something that is 50/50 balanced due to the two target limit.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Several of the people discussing in this thread are 25 man raiders, and they mostly seem to agree that you need something more like Int > Spi (16k+) > Mastery > Haste = Crit, or something to that effect. I'm not sure where you're coming from with the 'don't have to heal as much' argument though, when you use the example of 7 healers? If you're doing it with that many and you're coming top, something is very wrong with your other healers, or you have 6 other Holy Paladins... If you want a truly similar experience, it would be 2/10 vs 5/25.

    And SS isn't good in 10m because its a huge loss of healing ability for something that is 50/50 balanced due to the two target limit.
    We currently have 8 healers on our roster. We do not use 7 for any fight, however, it is still the competition of 7 other healers to get the top rankings.

    There IS more damage in 25m and thus more healing.

    SS has 3 charges at 30s a piece, that's 3 targets. 3/10 people SS'd is 30%, 3/25 people is 8.3%, that's not so 50/50 in my book.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Deipotent View Post
    There IS more damage in 25m and thus more healing.
    Not disputing that there is more damage, but its not a high enough ratio that it out scales the increased healer numbers. I.e. 10 man is 100k/2, 25 man is 250k/5 (damage/healers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Deipotent View Post
    SS has 3 charges at 30s a piece, that's 3 targets. 3/10 people SS'd is 30%, 3/25 people is 8.3%, that's not so 50/50 in my book.
    That specifically was aimed at the fact its primarily a tank buff, and is balanced as such, but when you put it on other people it has reduced effectiveness by either not having anywhere near enough damage to pop the bubble, or far more spread damage that requires the AoE or pseudo AoE of SH/EF. You also add in the fact it can't 'make up for lost time' like EF can, and it becomes quite lackluster when in a sparring match vs the other two options.
    Last edited by Xs; 2013-09-24 at 11:36 PM.

  16. #456
    Is eternal flame still best for 5 man challenges? And is mastery still the way to go?
    "I bring light where there is darkness. Hope where there is despair. Judgement where there is injustice. I AM PALADIN!"

  17. #457
    Hello, I couldn't find much information about the trinkets so I'll ask here.

    I am currently running with Dysmorphic Samophlange of Discontinuity (Siegecrafter) ilvl 567 and Horridon's Last Grasp 549. Now my question is which one of the two trinkets I should replace when I get my hands on the normal mode amplification trinket. I realise that the siegecrafter one provide about 350 more int, but from what I've seen on logs the Horridon trinket provides far more mana than the Siegecrafter trinket proc. Any of you theorycrafters out there have any suggestions on which one to use?

    Thanks in advance.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Artiks View Post
    Hello, I couldn't find much information about the trinkets so I'll ask here.

    I am currently running with Dysmorphic Samophlange of Discontinuity (Siegecrafter) ilvl 567 and Horridon's Last Grasp 549. Now my question is which one of the two trinkets I should replace when I get my hands on the normal mode amplification trinket. I realise that the siegecrafter one provide about 350 more int, but from what I've seen on logs the Horridon trinket provides far more mana than the Siegecrafter trinket proc. Any of you theorycrafters out there have any suggestions on which one to use?

    Thanks in advance.
    I'm not 100% versed on the new proc rate, and how much of a bonus Horridon's is as an overlap (I just knew it blew my other trinket choices away lol) but my very very basic napkin maths suggests that they pull about equal on the raw regen front. If anyone has more info for Horridon's that would help clarify, as I don't have any decent stuff to hand to figure out how much of a multiplier the stacking ability is.

  19. #459
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorri View Post
    Is eternal flame still best for 5 man challenges? And is mastery still the way to go?
    For challenge modes where your gear is scaled down, you should be running Mastery as Haste likely isn't sustainable. EF is also likely going to be your best bet, although I'd advise trying the others (or looking for better advice) because I haven't done Challenge Modes.

  20. #460
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerfax View Post
    For challenge modes where your gear is scaled down, you should be running Mastery as Haste likely isn't sustainable. EF is also likely going to be your best bet, although I'd advise trying the others (or looking for better advice) because I haven't done Challenge Modes.
    SH is not viable for challenge modes, you can try SS but I find that will most likely just be a waste of your GCD.

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