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  1. #501
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheatfish View Post
    How crit is compared to haste or mastery? Is it better to use warforged crit item over haste, mastery item?
    Personally speaking I would just go higher item level = better as a rule of thumb minus tier bonuses and trinkets.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by sheatfish View Post
    How crit is compared to haste or mastery? Is it better to use warforged crit item over haste, mastery item?
    As void said, generally the higher ilvl is better. If its Warforged crit vs 2/2 normal mastery I probably wouldn't bother depending on how quickly you're getting items, if its quick enough that Valor becomes a problem.

  3. #503
    44% mastery with 7170 (35%) haste VS 35% mastery and 10867 (45%) haste...both EF with 14k spirit...
    I can't decide which is better armory link available in my sig...

    I second Xs regarding the crit items...normal 2/2 upgraded mastery item > warforged crit...simply because 60% of the crit on that wf item is a dead stat to me...
    Last edited by Vallerian; 2013-10-17 at 11:46 PM.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Vallerian View Post
    44% mastery with 7170 (35%) haste VS 35% mastery and 10867 (45%) haste...both EF with 14k spirit...
    I can't decide which is better armory link available in my sig...
    Will trade opinions for both your trinkets, you lucky bastard

    Personally I'd like to try a high Haste build, but looking at your Armory I'd stick with the 7170 and replace the Mastery gems with Int ones. Up to you though, probably worth giving the 45% BP a try just to see how it feels, since its pretty unclear water yet for most of us given how high the gear requirement is to sustain everything else with it.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Will trade opinions for both your trinkets, you lucky bastard

    Personally I'd like to try a high Haste build, but looking at your Armory I'd stick with the 7170 and replace the Mastery gems with Int ones. Up to you though, probably worth giving the 45% BP a try just to see how it feels, since its pretty unclear water yet for most of us given how high the gear requirement is to sustain everything else with it.
    Haha, they are not up for trade my preccccciousssss.....
    Got lucky the first ID and got the amp trinket...did blackfuse with bonusrolls several times...nothing...and then yesterday night that second beauty dropped...pure joy!

    Pure int is what the robot tells me, when i set a fixed spirit value with 0 value for spirit after that and my haste breakpoint...but i remember reading over at bouchebaguette's that gemming pure int is bad because you waste secondary stats...
    http://fullspectrumholypally.wordpress.com/

    What we see is Mastery gains stat weight at each EF break point. It never over takes Intellect but it can be up to 82% of a intellect. Since gems are 2:1 secondary stats to primary stats there is no reason to pass up on secondary stats when gemming.
    ...and...
    Lastly, per stat point Intellect is the best stat, but gems are not a 1 to 1 ratio and thus going pure Intellect just doesn’t add up.
    He states that haste > mastery up until the 45% BP and after that mastery > haste...

    If we take into account that after reaching the 45% haste BP one point mastery is worth 0.81 int that would lead me to the following (naive) calculations regarding gems:

    160 int = 160 value
    80int/160 mastery = 80+(160*0.81)= 209.6 value
    320 mastery = 320*0.81 = 259.2 value

    Those are only the values of gems...but we also have to take socket bonuses into account...

    3 red sockets / 180 int bonus:
    3x 160 int = 3*160 value + 180 = 660 value (socket bonus achieved)
    3x 320 mastery = 777.6 value + 0 (no socket bonus)
    3x 80int/160 mastery = 628.8 + 180 = 808.8 value (socket bonus achieved)

    2 red sockets / 120 int bonus:
    1x 160int = 2*160 value + 120 value = 440 value (socket bonus achieved)
    2x 320 mastery = 518.4 value + 0 (no socket bonus)
    2x 80int/160 mastery = 419.2 + 120 = 539.2 value (socket bonus achieved)

    1 red socket / 60 int bonus:
    1x 160int = 160 value + 60 value = 220 value (socket bonus achieved)
    1x 320 mastery = 259.2 value (no socket bonus)
    1x 80int/160 mastery = 209.6 value + 60 value = 269.6 value (socket bonus achieved)

    1 red socket and 1 yellow socket / 120 int bonus:
    2x 160int = 2*160 value + 0 value = 320 value (no socket bonus)
    2x 320 mastery = 2*259.2 value + 0 value = 518.4 value (no socket bonus)
    1x 160 int + 1x 320 mastery = 160 + 259.2 + 120 = 539.2 value (socket bonus achieved)
    2x 80int/160 mastery = 2*209.6 value + 120 value = 539.2 value (socket bonus achieved)
    1x 80int/160mastery + 1x 320 mastery = 209.6 + 259.2 + 120 = 588.8 value (socket bonus achieved)

    Perhaps thats helpfull to someone ^^ if my math is flawed just tell me...i'm pretty damn tired right now...so that could all be wrong ^^
    Last edited by Vallerian; 2013-10-18 at 02:54 PM.

  6. #506
    I believe the general reason for gemming Intellect is consistency, because its applying to the EF HoT and anything else Blizzard decides to stealth remove Mastery from, along with also gaining benefit from the Legendary Cloak, where Mastery only gains the 5% buff during the proc. Up to you though, I put a lot of personal value on the 'hidden' stats that you get from things like consistency, and I'm running 10 mans atm so vastly less of my healing is Mastery applicable. And I don't have double Warforged perfect trinkets......

  7. #507
    Argh...screw it...i was "mathing" around to see if I can figure out how going pure int would influence EF and the other healing spells...
    But it's late...and the end results hovered around a 1% increase if you heal a non beaconed target and a 1% decrease if you heal the beacon target directly...

    Long story short...I'll stick with "whatever you prefer" ^^
    Last edited by Vallerian; 2013-10-19 at 01:00 AM. Reason: me tired...

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Vallerian View Post
    Argh...screw it...i was "mathing" around to see if I can figure out how going pure int would influence EF and the other healing spells...
    But it's late...and the end results hovered around a 1% increase if you heal a non beaconed target and a 1% decrease if you heal the beacon target directly...

    Long story short...I'll stick with "whatever you prefer" ^^
    Yeah thats pretty much the result I've always come to, thats why I try to preface everything with "personally" to show I have no 100% answer for it

  9. #509
    The Patient Kerfax's Avatar
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    I agree with Xs here. I think sticking with 7170 and gemming Int would be best for you. You likely have no regen issues (jerk), but Int is just more consistent as Xs has stated. Int applies equally to everything (simplifying a little, but for the most part), whereas you lose out on certain abilities with both Haste and Mastery. You can really do anything you like as long as you're keeping Haste around a breakpoint, but I wouldn't go for a full Haste build because I like the effects of higher Mastery. For progression especially, Mastery tends to even out damage a bit to allow some cushioning. While I've been running 7170 without the Amp trinket (leaving my Mastery rather low atm), I personally think having our shields at the cost of more theoretical output is important for progressing through new content.

    I'd also personally never go with secondary stat JC gems because you don't get the full double benefit as you do with Int gems.

  10. #510
    I'll see how garrosh plays out on sunday with 45% haste, 35% mastery and 14k Spirit
    Mana consumption can be a problem if my heal-mates forget to use their mana cds because they don't need them...guess who is doing all the work

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Vallerian View Post
    I'll see how garrosh plays out on sunday with 45% haste, 35% mastery and 14k Spirit
    Mana consumption can be a problem if my heal-mates forget to use their mana cds because they don't need them...guess who is doing all the work
    Garrosh normal? he is not that mana intensive like other fights, i two healed it with a priest and my mana was at 70%+ the entire fight.

    Do you know i hate you? TWO warforged trinkets and here i am, still using the fucking trinket from toes and the shado pan trinket, i used like 15 coins in horridon hc.

  12. #512
    Noooo...don't hate me
    I...I could equip something different or...or...nothing at all!!!!
    Haha ^^ I know that I'm extremely lucky regarding those trinkets...but I therefore have bad luck regarding tokens -.-
    Those Rogue, DK, Mage, Druid Tokens rellay suck!

    Yup Garrosh normal...first ID that we have two of our three days just for him! I'll two heal it with either a RShaman or RDruid...
    The only boss where I had problems running 45% H, 35% M and 14k S were Klaxxi...but it was late and our tanks screwed up a litte bit ^_^
    Last edited by Vallerian; 2013-10-19 at 02:39 PM.

  13. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    Do you know i hate you? TWO warforged trinkets and here i am, still using the fucking trinket from toes and the shado pan trinket, i used like 15 coins in horridon hc.
    Join the hate train, I'm rocking a 2/2 Valor and a 2/2 RAID FINDER Horridon's, used about 12 coins over 14 kills, but never caught a break.


    Also to add to the discussion, I'm currently on 16k Spirit to stay safe, as I've always been a fan of the "enough to be inefficient" style, but I'm interested in where other people are finding their comfort zones? Would need to know trinkets too where applicable.
    Last edited by Xs; 2013-10-19 at 10:45 PM.

  14. #514
    High Overlord Berianther's Avatar
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    normal Klaxxi was one of the easiest fight to 2 heal on 10m, pretty sure it could be 1 healed. I finally got enough haste to be able to do 55% haste, will see how it compares to a 45% haste build, at the expense of sacrificing mastery.

  15. #515
    Let me run a full raid with my current gear (14k spirit, blackfuse trinket) next thursday and I can tell you how it feels...running 15k spirit without the blackfuse trinket and 45% haste brought me on the brink to going oom during several fights...

    If I calculated the mp5 of the upgraded warforged blackfuse trinket correctly it will yield about 1813mp/5...thats insane...
    At 45% haste it'll have a 22.83% uptime...

  16. #516
    High Overlord Berianther's Avatar
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    I would only recommend 45% or 55% haste with sha of pride + blackfuse trinkets.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Vallerian View Post
    If I calculated the mp5 of the upgraded warforged blackfuse trinket correctly it will yield about 1813mp/5...thats insane...
    At 45% haste it'll have a 22.83% uptime...
    1959.15 eMp5 if you include the Amp trinket

  18. #518
    Ohhh right O_o
    I totally forgot that...thank you

    Edit:
    A little update on Garrosh...due to the fact that our RShaman is not that well geared, it was very mana taxing...
    I was hovering at around 130k HPS with him doing 60-70k...
    We got him to 11% P3 ~.~ but today he'll meet his demise ^^

    And it really really sucks if the blackfuse trinket proccs from the very first heal and most of the manareg wanders into nothingness ^^
    Last edited by Vallerian; 2013-10-21 at 10:32 AM.

  19. #519
    Great guide. Haven't touched my holy paly in a long time and it's time to dust him off.

  20. #520
    So I'm loving all this feedback for you heroic guys. Thank you so much. But my curiosity is sparked. I know healing isn't like dps, but how are you generating holy power consistantly with ef as your talent choice? I was sitting at 15k spirit but felt starved with ef.

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