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  1. #561
    Hello all--great reads found in this thread. I apologize in advance if my question has been addressed and I simply missed it, but I shall keep it short.
    Using Eternal Flame, I've heard a lot of negativity thrown towards Light of Dawn; is it more beneficial to blanket the raid with Eternal Flames, keeping constant heals rolling to the Beacon of Light target, and using Light of Dawn in situational moments with heavy, spiked raid damage? As somewhat a caveat to my question: is attempting to blanket the raid with 1 - 2 Holy Power Eternal Flames as [more] beneficial than a full-fledged three HP EF on multiple targets?


    Thanks a bunch

  2. #562
    Today im moving from 10hc to 25hc and idk what expect, the raid leader told me the weakest point on the raid are the healers so they are stuck at 6/14 hc (sha-dark shaman hc), do you guys think i need to make a change in reforge/gem?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...4zzly/advanced

    outside changing those haste gem ofc.

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    Today im moving from 10hc to 25hc and idk what expect, the raid leader told me the weakest point on the raid are the healers so they are stuck at 6/14 hc (sha-dark shaman hc), do you guys think i need to make a change in reforge/gem?

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...4zzly/advanced

    outside changing those haste gem ofc.
    Gonna be a bit rough, but should be doable. Make sure you get your haste as close to the 3.5k BP as you can (I assume you're already aiming for that), and as you said, drop the Haste gems.

  4. #564
    Hey all, quick question.

    Last night I got both the shield off Malkorok and Norushen and was wondering which would be the more preferred shield to take?

    Current Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Hamanis/simple

    I am currently using Norushens with the mastery on it, but perhaps with the Malkorok one it would be worth pushing to the 3rd haste breakpoint?

  5. #565
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Norushen. Why would you want to push 10867 breakpoint, your gear is hardly enough to support it.

  6. #566
    Was wondering, why exactly do some holy palas skill beacon of light? Is there any specific reason I missed?

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Curarin View Post
    Was wondering, why exactly do some holy palas skill beacon of light? Is there any specific reason I missed?
    It's not possible to "skill" Beacon of Light. If you mean "glyph" it with Glyph of Beacon of Light then some players use it because it allows switching beacon targets more easily and some players are assigned to spot heal and not be full on the tank so switching it around is beneficial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Everything Nice View Post
    Noodles and chocolate milk is the breakfast of Champions.
    Super Brony Friendfinder

  8. #568
    Weird typo, actually I meant skip*.

    I was skimming through logs and noticed, that some palas just dont use it on a couple of fights.

  9. #569
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curarin View Post
    I was skimming through logs and noticed, that some palas just dont use it on a couple of fights.
    Where do you see this?

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
    It's not possible to "skill" Beacon of Light. If you mean "glyph" it with Glyph of Beacon of Light then some players use it because it allows switching beacon targets more easily and some players are assigned to spot heal and not be full on the tank so switching it around is beneficial.
    Unless you're looking at "casts" then they're bad Paladins, but since it has an infinite duration now some fights don't warrant swapping it (Paragons and Shamans to name some off the top of my head)

  11. #571
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    I'm saying the proper way to tell is not to look at buffs cast because logs do not account for pre-combat casts. You need to look at healing done. If there is zero healing from Beacon of Light, either it's a bugged log or the paladin is doing it wrong period.

  12. #572
    Ok, I've been looking through this thread and I may have just overlooked answers to these questions.

    First question:

    Is there a point with EF where gemming Mastery becomes equivalent/better to gemming Intellect for it?

    2nd question:

    Concerning the SH style, what haste point is recommended before dropping everything into mastery?

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyaza View Post
    First question:
    Is there a point with EF where gemming Mastery becomes equivalent/better to gemming Intellect for it?

    2nd question:
    Concerning the SH style, what haste point is recommended before dropping everything into mastery?
    1. Mastery is technically always better, the reason you see people gem intellect is because it makes your healing smoother and allows you to fill a more Resto Druid type role, with more raw healing and hots

    2. SH doesn't have any real Haste breakpoints to speak of, they're all related to EF, just stack Mastery to the moon and watch as you transform into a Disc Priest

  14. #574
    @ Xs

    I didn't phrase my first question very well, because I know that Mastery is always better than Int in terms of throughput.

    I've been thinking about this for awhile, so I will rephrase the question now.

    Is there any point at which the stat weight of Mastery and the stat weight of Intellect become equivalent to one another?

    That may be a dumb question, but I'm okay with that. :P

    As for the 2nd thing I asked, concerning SH. I don't play the style at all, because I don't like it, and I was asked if there was any correlation between SH and haste at all. All I knew about SH before asking my previous question was that the play-style favors Mastery over everything else and the general rotation of the style.

    And it's hard to find Hpallies using either EF or SH who know what they are talking about. I can find plenty of EF pallies spamming LoD, though. And I can find plenty of SH pallies whose top two heals somehow aren't LoD and IH. But finding EF pallies who know that LoD shouldn't be in their top 2 heals is hard enough. Finding SH hpallies who know what they are doing is a nightmare.

    I've looked at logs of some of the hpallies I know personally who are doing heroic content right now (I'm still in normals, atm, despite numerous offers to join heroic guilds due to a friend asking me to come heal for him) and some of the logs I look at it disgust me. Because there are 10man heroic guilds clearing content with Hpallies who are specced into EF and spamming LoD on every fight.

    It bothers me when I look at logs of people who are more progressed than me (even though it's by my own choice, shh) and yet don't understand the mechanics of the class.

  15. #575
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyaza View Post
    I've looked at logs of some of the hpallies I know personally who are doing heroic content right now (I'm still in normals, atm, despite numerous offers to join heroic guilds due to a friend asking me to come heal for him) and some of the logs I look at it disgust me. Because there are 10man heroic guilds clearing content with Hpallies who are specced into EF and spamming LoD on every fight. It bothers me when I look at logs of people who are more progressed than me (even though it's by my own choice, shh) and yet don't understand the mechanics of the class.
    Heroics are hard, right? A lot of guilds have garbage and some of it shows up in the healers in particular (it's easier to get carried, and your actual throughput abilities matter a lot less in the long haul). It's why finding a "good" guild really isn't that hard once you get to a good understanding of your class also.

  16. #576
    @Voidspark

    I'm aware that a lot of raid groups, even heroic ones, have trash players. I've seen 575+ tanks unable to hold threat off 558 dps in normals and 575+ dps unable to do over 200k dps. Bad healers annoy me.

    Ok. So... yeah. Bad players in general get on my nerves.

    The difficulty level of heroic content annoys me because people can, and do, get carried through it, and their logs reflect that.

    Basically, heroics should be harder. Because when there are hpallies who can go 14/14 HC spamming LoD on every fight while they are specced into EF, it's pretty obvious that the content is too easy.

    What really frustrates me is that because I'm not doing HC content yet, the hpallies I know IN HC content won't listen to me. It took me over 3 weeks to convince a 10/14 HC hpally on my Btag that what she was doing was killing her healing, because she was specced into EF but spamming LoD.

    So the frustration mostly comes from the fact that the majority of players out there think that progression level = skill level, and that's obnoxious. Because there are players who know the workings of their class at every level of progression, and writing someone off just because they "aren't as progressed" as you is ignorant. And being more progressed than someone doesn't automatically mean you're better than them.

    It's that "better than you b/c I've cleared more content than you" that really gets on my nerves. Because yeah, I'm still in normal content. But that is by choice. I chose to stay in normals because a friend asked me to heal for him. I got asked yesterday by another friend to come heal for his 25man HC guild and I turned him down. But that's w/e. I'm fine with that.

    What I'm not fine with is that the people who know me, who have raided with me, and, in some cases, who I've taught to play hpally, look at the fact that they are in HC content and I'm not and decide that my lack of progression = lack of knowledge of class mechanics.

    That's what really gets on my nerves. Because they all know that I've played a holy paladin for 7 years and I've never switched mains and I've rarely even switched specs.

    That doesn't make me the best hpally out there, not by a long shot, because there are definitely better hpallies than me. And that's fine with me. I don't want to be the top hpally to begin with, because that's way too much pressure, and if you're sitting at the top, you can't go any higher, because there's nothing to strive for once you reach that vantage point.

    But it does mean I have a pretty solid grasp on hpally mechanics and that I know when someone is doing something wrong, based on their logs.

    But because I can't link logs of my own for the same kills they have, people tend to shy away from listening to me--even after coming to me for advice!--and that's obnoxious.


    So heroic content being too easy? Yeah, that's a problem. The content should be hard enough that no one can be carried through it.

    But I feel that the bigger problem is that people with HC progression look down on ppl still progressing through normals and assume that they are bad players, just because they aren't in HC yet.

    Progression doesn't equal Skill. And it would be nice if people would stop assuming that it does.

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    1. Mastery is technically always better, the reason you see people gem intellect is because it makes your healing smoother and allows you to fill a more Resto Druid type role, with more raw healing and hots
    I'm curious if going raw INT would create more synergy while healing with a Disc Priest in 10 mans. I'd assume your numbers would be lower but perhaps healing might be easier and there would be less deaths. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Healtuff; 2013-12-15 at 10:34 PM.

  18. #578
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyaza View Post
    What really frustrates me is that because I'm not doing HC content yet, the hpallies I know IN HC content won't listen to me. It took me over 3 weeks to convince a 10/14 HC hpally on my Btag that what she was doing was killing her healing, because she was specced into EF but spamming LoD.

    So the frustration mostly comes from the fact that the majority of players out there think that progression level = skill level, and that's obnoxious. Because there are players who know the workings of their class at every level of progression, and writing someone off just because they "aren't as progressed" as you is ignorant. And being more progressed than someone doesn't automatically mean you're better than them.
    If you haven't done heroics you won't make a very convincing case, at least not without some effort. I agree that a lot of heroic players do play suboptimally.

    But if you actually did heroics you'd quickly see that raid and single target damage taken can sometimes be unbelievably higher than in normal modes. Reacting and planning for that takes a whole different mindset. What looks good on paper can usually go very, very wrong when it comes to things that are actually threatening. You have to do that rotation while avoiding far more damage and stuff that actually kills you, more than it does in normal.

    So yes, you may know the rotation better, but there will always be that "easy say, hard do" cloud hanging over your head that makes you very hard to listen to for someone who actually does play difficult content. Talking about it and doing it are two different things. It's why, in general, I don't really take people who haven't actually done the content very seriously.

    (BTW, overall, 10/14 heroics isn't very difficult now! But my point still stands, again I'm not saying you're wrong, but I figured I'd explain why I feel people are right not to take someone seriously due to their progression)
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2013-12-16 at 12:54 AM.

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by Healtuff View Post
    I'm curious if going raw INT would create more synergy while healing with a Disc Priest in 10 mans. I'd assume your numbers would be lower but perhaps healing might be easier and there would be less deaths. Thoughts?
    It depends how you feel, personally I run(ran) the Int setup with a Resto Druid/Shaman as the comp, so we both did very steady healing across the whole raid and used that as our effective health. In a Disc setup I'm not really sure which one I'd use, a lot of it depends what style of Disc he likes to play, if its full Atone disc then I'd probably go with Mastery just because you'll rarely get full use out of an Eternal Flame, but if they're more into PoH/PoM then Int would probably compliment that style better, to give it the consistency it needs to top people up behind the bubbles.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    If you haven't done heroics you won't make a very convincing case, at least not without some effort. I agree that a lot of heroic players do play suboptimally.

    But if you actually did heroics you'd quickly see that raid and single target damage taken can sometimes be unbelievably higher than in normal modes. Reacting and planning for that takes a whole different mindset. What looks good on paper can usually go very, very wrong when it comes to things that are actually threatening. You have to do that rotation while avoiding far more damage and stuff that actually kills you, more than it does in normal.

    So yes, you may know the rotation better, but there will always be that "easy say, hard do" cloud hanging over your head that makes you very hard to listen to for someone who actually does play difficult content. Talking about it and doing it are two different things. It's why, in general, I don't really take people who haven't actually done the content very seriously.

    (BTW, overall, 10/14 heroics isn't very difficult now! But my point still stands, again I'm not saying you're wrong, but I figured I'd explain why I feel people are right not to take someone seriously due to their progression)
    @ Voidspark

    I've done heroics. I just haven't done any this tier. I did 11/13 HC last tier, pre-nerf ofc. I cleared DS Heroic last expac. I cleared 12/12 HC ICC in Wrath.

    Link to my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Kyaza/advanced

    So yes. I do have heroic experience.

    That's why I'm annoyed. Because I HAVE raided heroic content. But not having HC experience this tier seems to be why others won't take me seriously. And that annoys me.

    Because not having experience in ONE tier doesn't negate the heroic content I've done in the past. Or it shouldn't.

    /shrug.

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