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  1. #481
    Quote Originally Posted by Tungzten View Post
    Is there some math to that? Got H TF Horridons and H Amp Trinket. Just got the Blackfuse Trinket and am contemplating on using that instead of Horridons.
    I don't have any maths for Horridon's, although I'd be willing to do it if someone can give me some stats to figure out how worth the stacking component is. One thing I would say is that the SoO trinket is certainly a lot more consistent, so you'll always get around the 1250 mp5 (normal mode) mark plus the bonus int, where as Horridon's has a tenancy of procing 8 times in a row before you've even got a chance to use any regen cooldowns, which can get a little tedious, although less annoying once you replace the Valor trinket.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Tungzten View Post
    Is there some math to that? Got H TF Horridons and H Amp Trinket. Just got the Blackfuse Trinket and am contemplating on using that instead of Horridons.
    The Blackfuse trinket is better. I'm just not dropping Horridon's for the cleave or multistrike trinkets.
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  3. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyrotten View Post
    The Blackfuse trinket is better. I'm just not dropping Horridon's for the cleave or multistrike trinkets.
    Depends what you are looking for and also how Horridon's proc. I made some fast calculations a week back when I got Blackfuse trinket and there were over 50k mana gained difference between normal Blackfuse trinket and HC Horridon's on some fights. There is more int on Blackfuse ofc, but from regen point of view I would say Horridon's is better (there were no fights Blackfuse trinket gave more mana than Horridon's even though few times it was really close).
    Last edited by Doctorant; 2013-10-08 at 07:04 AM. Reason: clarification

  4. #484
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorant View Post
    Depends what you are looking for and also how Horridon's proc. I made some fast calculations a week back when I got Blackfuse trinket and there were over 50k mana gained difference between normal Blackfuse trinket and HC Horridon's on some fights. There is more int on Blackfuse ofc, but from regen point of view I would say Horridon's is better (there were no fights Blackfuse trinket gave more mana than Horridon's even though few times it was really close).
    If you don't mind sharing, could you give me your average mp5 from logs? Haste percentage would also be appreciated, thanks.

  5. #485
    Got the Nazgrim's Insignia this ID...but can't get myself to drop the horridon trinket...using warforged amp combined with Horridons nh...a pally mate used the multistrike trinket during our raid and it ranged from 1-3% of his healing done...
    In the end it depends on how much you need the manareg from horridons...

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    If you don't mind sharing, could you give me your average mp5 from logs? Haste percentage would also be appreciated, thanks.
    Fallen Protectors 10H: 09:11, Cloudburst 180207 mana -> 1635 MP5
    Norushen 10H: 06:22, Cloudburst 80377 mana -> 1052 MP5
    Sha of Pride 10H: 07:59, Cloudburst 104128 mana -> 1087 MP5
    Galakras 10H: 12:15, Cloudburst 191377 mana -> 1301 MP5
    Iron Juggernaut 10H: 07:14, Cloudburst 185156 mana -> 2133 MP5

    All of these were with 7170 haste BP which is 35% buffed haste. (There is also a possibility of haste not being that because I've been playing a lot with gemming/reforges. However, I am quite confident I had those haste values).

    Please tell me if there is something wrong, I'm quite exhausted atm. Also, could someone verify if mana gained is seen even if I have full mana. Because this made me think about it

    Alchemist's Rejuvenation 30288 mana.

    I can't imagine why that potion would give less than the tooltip value 31 500 mana.

    Anyway, it seems the difference with Siegecrafter and Horridon's is smaller than previously calcualted. Not sure where the mistake is (if there is one). AHA! I made calculations from different week logs last time. That week I got a bit more mana from Horridon's but the mana gained difference wasn't that huge.

    EDIT: Also, has someone computed the MP5 from 2/2 upgraded Siegecrafter trinket? Someone had computed before it would be 1200 MP5 but it seems that value is too low. If that's wrong then my assumption of Horridon's being better would be wrong.

    EDIT2: And anyway if I was wrong about Horridon being better on regen point of view I don't still see point using it because the difference of int is so huge. However, apologize of being wrong if someone can show the math of siegecrafter trinket. Not sure about that.
    Last edited by Doctorant; 2013-10-08 at 11:47 AM.

  7. #487
    I dont have logs on the Blackfuse Trinket since I didnt equip it right away, but what I later found out is that it scales with the amp trinket from Sha. The Tooltip shows 25340 Spirit @ nhc 2/2 but the procc actually gives 27497 Spirit in combination with Sha heroic 2/2.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Tungzten View Post
    I dont have logs on the Blackfuse Trinket since I didnt equip it right away, but what I later found out is that it scales with the amp trinket from Sha. The Tooltip shows 25340 Spirit @ nhc 2/2 but the procc actually gives 27497 Spirit in combination with Sha heroic 2/2.

    Didn't know that, although, when I think about it it is quite obvious. That boosts Siegecrafter trinket value quite nicely.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorant View Post
    *snip*

    EDIT: Also, has someone computed the MP5 from 2/2 upgraded Siegecrafter trinket? Someone had computed before it would be 1200 MP5 but it seems that value is too low. If that's wrong then my assumption of Horridon's being better would be wrong.

    EDIT2: And anyway if I was wrong about Horridon being better on regen point of view I don't still see point using it because the difference of int is so huge. However, apologize of being wrong if someone can show the math of siegecrafter trinket. Not sure about that.
    Thanks a lot for your results Gave me an average mp5 around the 1440 mark, although obviously with that kind of sample size and such a pain trinket to math out, we can't be 100% sure without more results.

    Assuming you saw my post on WoWHead giving DSoD 1255 mp5 at base, but that was assuming 16% haste as its a bit more general class level, since updated to the more realistic 30% haste giving 1417, and using the same system to calculate that they compare out as:
    HLG H 2/2: 1440.81
    DSoD 2/2: 1590.01
    Thats 35% haste and a 31% modifier on Horridon's to account for proc stacking. BUT if you add on a 2/2 PPoP (Amp trinket) you push that value up to 1717.21, which I think is probably how it was balanced, and certainly pushes it up to even some of the luckier streaks with HLG.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Xs View Post
    Thanks a lot for your results Gave me an average mp5 around the 1440 mark, although obviously with that kind of sample size and such a pain trinket to math out, we can't be 100% sure without more results.

    Assuming you saw my post on WoWHead giving DSoD 1255 mp5 at base, but that was assuming 16% haste as its a bit more general class level, since updated to the more realistic 30% haste giving 1417, and using the same system to calculate that they compare out as:
    HLG H 2/2: 1440.81
    DSoD 2/2: 1590.01
    Thats 35% haste and a 31% modifier on Horridon's to account for proc stacking. BUT if you add on a 2/2 PPoP (Amp trinket) you push that value up to 1717.21, which I think is probably how it was balanced, and certainly pushes it up to even some of the luckier streaks with HLG.
    Yeah it was probably your post but I didn't see any math and I didn't find any other reliable source. Thank you for you calculations and proving me wrong

    Also to add haste builds show some nice behaviour with Horridon's. In ToT max stack I saw was 3, but wiht haste builds it is not uncommon to see 5 stacks of the trinket.

  11. #491
    Haha yeah, I didn't add any maths to my description because its just so fucking complicated! Added a screenshot of the system I used for Wowhead calcs if you want to see how its done and make sure nothing went derp ( http://i.imgur.com/gt4f8KG.jpg ) and if gdocs didn't release my full name and business email when I publish it, I'd gladly put it out there for public use if anyone is interested in really looking into the meat of it throw me a PM with a Google addy and I'll happily let you sniff around.
    Last edited by Xs; 2013-10-08 at 01:01 PM.

  12. #492
    Fluffy Kitten Lohe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorant View Post
    Please tell me if there is something wrong, I'm quite exhausted atm. Also, could someone verify if mana gained is seen even if I have full mana. Because this made me think about it

    Alchemist's Rejuvenation 30288 mana.

    I can't imagine why that potion would give less than the tooltip value 31 500 mana.
    You have "Display points as average" enabled. (interface -> display). The 30k is just the average of 28500-31500, which is what the potion actually gives you.

    Edit: nvm, misread it. the tooltip still clearly states 28500-31500 though
    Last edited by Lohe; 2013-10-09 at 09:20 AM.

  13. #493
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorant View Post
    Didn't know that, although, when I think about it it is quite obvious. That boosts Siegecrafter trinket value quite nicely.
    It scales with both the amp trinket and the human racial.

  14. #494
    Hey fam i'm new to this whole holy paladin drill (comming from being a Mistweaver!) any tips on gemming and gearing for 25M raids at low 515-530 Ilvls would be much appreciated!! us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Arapal/simple

    - - - Updated - - -

    so if im understanding correctly, I would want to go with Mastery/Spirit build and spam LoD while keeping HS on cd?

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeces View Post
    so if im understanding correctly, I would want to go with Mastery/Spirit build and spam LoD while keeping HS on cd?
    No. You'll want to pick up gear with Spirit/Mastery or Spirit/Haste, then to begin with focus on Spirit > Mastery until you have a solid gear level, then you can think about going for the 3.5k Haste breakpoint. If you really want to go Selfless healer (might be good if your gear is absolutely shocking) then just keep everything on cooldown and use heals reactively depending on the situation, otherwise go EF and you might as well unbind LoD for the amount of times its useful. Either way you'll want to be maxing out your Spirit until you can comfortably sustain yourself, then move onto pure Intellect.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeces View Post
    Hey fam i'm new to this whole holy paladin drill (comming from being a Mistweaver!) any tips on gemming and gearing for 25M raids at low 515-530 Ilvls would be much appreciated!! us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Arapal/simple

    - - - Updated - - -

    so if im understanding correctly, I would want to go with Mastery/Spirit build and spam LoD while keeping HS on cd?
    I would recommend going back to your MW!!
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  17. #497
    Long time lurker, first time poster here. I am in a 10man guild getting ready to start Heroics. Was just wondering if I should stick with my current setup or would switching to SH be better in the long run

    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/turalyon/ Qutie/ advanced

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Quti View Post
    Long time lurker, first time poster here. I am in a 10man guild getting ready to start Heroics. Was just wondering if I should stick with my current setup or would switching to SH be better in the long run

    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/turalyon/ Qutie/ advanced
    SH vs. EF is very very fight dependent. I would recommend looking a log parses to see what other paladins are doing as you get to each boss. I've spent a fortune in gems this tier going back and forth depending on what boss we're on.
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  19. #499
    High Overlord Berianther's Avatar
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    EF for Malkorok and SH for Thok, other fights don't really make that big of a difference.

  20. #500
    How crit is compared to haste or mastery? Is it better to use warforged crit item over haste, mastery item?

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