Ennis's guide to playing fire for 5.0.4

[Mage1]

Hi everyone, I made this guide (you can CHOOSE whether or not to follow it - no one is forcing you). Reason why I am putting it here is so that if anyone does want to follow it they can. Please don't flame as that's not right. You can put suggestions and criticize but needless bashing is useless.

Ok guys, so after some significant testing on dummies, I have decided to make a guide to help those who are confused about the reforges, rotation and DPS for fire.

Thanks to lhivera for basically being the one who had made all the tools available to me and also he gave me the best advice, I will now explain in my eyes (not anyone else's, what I believe to be the successful way to raid fro 5.0.4):

Firstly, as fire you want to maximize CRIT ok. So, after intellect you want to reforge to CRIT.
You get a higher probability of proccing a hot streak pyroblast than you would with low crit.. what is LOW CRIT you say? Low crit is below 30 %.

Secondly, you want to make sure you can hit 25 % haste. Why? B/c it enables your combustion to tick extra once applied on your target - thus increasing DPS. So, basically reforge to 15 % HASTE to be able to hit 25 % haste.

BUT WAIT ENNIS/ You said you need 25 % haste and 15 doesn't give you 25 %... Ofc but remember that you get 5 % spell haste FROM RAID... AND you get about 4 % haste from stolen time at 10 so basically you hit 25 %.

What about mastery Ennis? Mastery is ACTUALLY, contrary to popular belief, very beneficial for fights like ultraxion (where you need to go out of combat every couple of minutes) and fights like zonozz where dot ticks + debuff on zonozz make you really hit hard.

Icy-veins and noxious both say to do:

Hit to 15 % -> THEN -> CRIT MAX. -> haste max after crit -> mastery for fire, BUT

I have found the following reforge priority to give me BETTER DPS OUTPUT:

Hit to 15 % -> THEN -> CRIT MAX. -> HASTE ONLY TO 15 % HASTE -> MASTERY MAX.

----------------------------------------------------------

Now armors...

armors are straight forward, as said by lhivera first, each spec. uses it's respectable armor.. so frost uses frost armor, fire uses molten, arcane uses mage...etc

So, basically:

REFORGE:
15 % hit -> Crit MAX (30 to 35 % range - which ever you can reach) -> haste to 1505 rating -> Mastery to about 20 %.

ARMOR USED:
MOLTEN ARMOR

GLYPHS:
Glyph of COMBUSTION (want to hit hard!)
Glyph of FIREBLAST (to spread)
Glyph of Evocation OR glyph of Frostfire bolt

Rotation:

1) NETHER TEMPEST OR LIVING BOMB (both currently do really close DPS together)
2) Fireball OR FROSTFIRE (if you chose that instead of evo).
3) IF ANY IN NUMBER 2 CRIT, USE INFERNO BLAST
4) HS PYROBLAST (lights up use it)
5) REAPPLY NT/LB RIGHT AWAY THEN USE COMBUSTION (if HS PYROBLAST CRITS)
6) THEN USE INFERNO BLAST
7) THEN USE HS PYROBLAST (this is what they call chaining it)
8) then Fireball or FROSTFIRE.

Lather rinse repeat.

I pulled 50 to 60 k dps on three target dummies and 40 to 45 k dps on single with my above guide.

---------- Post added 2012-08-29 at 05:29 PM ----------

Edited haste part.

---------- Post added 2012-08-29 at 05:35 PM ----------

Since people in the other thread told me about conversion changes, I've edited to change it to 15 % haste.

Whatever that 15 % haste is for individuals they should make sure they hit it.

---------- Post added 2012-08-29 at 05:35 PM ----------

Also, for me, 1963 haste RATING is 15.33 % HASTE IN GAME. As a gauge to others.

---------- Post added 2012-08-29 at 05:44 PM ----------

My current statistics:

SP: 10176
HIT: 15.01 % (1538 HIT RTNG)
CRIT: 23.83 % (2164 CRIT RTNG)
HASTE: 16.46 % (2106 HASTE RTNG)
MASTERY: 19.65 % (914 MASTERY RTNG)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...h/Ennis/simple

[LET JIMMY RAID]

AFAIK, the revamped combustion no longer uses the living bomb dot as part of the cumulative combustion dot, only ignite and pyro dot, so you don't need to refresh LB before applying combustion.

However, I'm unsure if you need to wait for the first ignite tick to occur before hitting combustion, or if you can combust as soon as you see a big pyro crit.

Also, pyroblast damage was my #1 damage spell all night last night, seeing a HUGE amount of hot streak procs right now. Sometimes could roll a very big ignite from back to back to back pyros.

[Mage1]

AFAIK, the revamped combustion no longer uses the living bomb dot as part of the cumulative combustion dot, only ignite and pyro dot, so you don't need to refresh LB before applying combustion.

However, I'm unsure if you need to wait for the first ignite tick to occur before hitting combustion, or if you can combust as soon as you see a big pyro crit.

Also, pyroblast damage was my #1 damage spell all night last night, seeing a HUGE amount of hot streak procs right now. Sometimes could roll a very big ignite from back to back to back pyros.

Thanks for sharing the information! <3 I appreciate it.

The only reason I refresh LB/NT is because I know I will be casting inferno blast once I hit combustion, so might as well MAKE SURE I will also be spreading a LB/NT with inferno as well.

Since between point 2 and point 3, you could essentially have NO crits for a while and it may drop its stacks (With respect to NT/LB). if you know what I mean.

It's like safegaurd.

[Pulski]

Thanks for sharing the information! <3 I appreciate it.

The only reason I refresh LB/NT is because I know I will be casting inferno blast once I hit combustion, so might as well MAKE SURE I will also be spreading a LB/NT with inferno as well.

Since between point 2 and point 3, you could essentially have NO crits for a while and it may drop its stacks (With respect to NT/LB). if you know what I mean.

It's like safegaurd.

You have 4 seconds with which to hit Combustion after a good DoT shows up. When you cast a spell it takes what is left of Ignite and adds to it. If you take the time to cast LB/NT before another Inferno Blast, I can guarantee you that it has ticked (2 seconds) the remaining damage has halved and even with Inferno Blast added in, it will be lower than if you had done it right away.

Inferno Blast, Combustion (Resets IB cooldown) then if you need to reapply LB/NT do it.

[Nohara]

Glyph of Evocation is not a usefull glyph on 5.0.4. With current mana regen, it is hard to get under 98% of your mana, so you would only use Evocation to heal yourself up, and thats just to big of a dps loss.

I would suggest changing that to glyph of Arcane Explosion (bigger range). Fire has no instant AoE cast anymore, and you cant spread DoT's Of any kind to more then 2 enemies, AE will be more used as Fire. Another option would be Glyph of Remove Curse, although, there are no curses to dispel in Dragon Soul I believe, this could be one of the best glyphs out there in the future (10 sec 10% damage bonus after succesfull decurse).

[Tickspoon]

The 10% damage bonus is only to compensate for the loss of GCD when decursing. It is basically meant to break-even when on decursing duty.

[LET JIMMY RAID]

Glyph of Evocation is not a usefull glyph on 5.0.4. With current mana regen, it is hard to get under 98% of your mana, so you would only use Evocation to heal yourself up, and thats just to big of a dps loss.

I would suggest changing that to glyph of Arcane Explosion (bigger range). Fire has no instant AoE cast anymore, and you cant spread DoT's Of any kind to more then 2 enemies, AE will be more used as Fire. Another option would be Glyph of Remove Curse, although, there are no curses to dispel in Dragon Soul I believe, this could be one of the best glyphs out there in the future (10 sec 10% damage bonus after succesfull decurse).

True, mana means nothing at level 85 in 5.0.4, but that's because everything has been changed to be about level 90 stats/gear. However, having access to the evocation heal has always been a wise choice for progression fights, especially at the start of an xpac when healers are struggling.

Glyph of AE is definitely a dps gain over glyph of evo, situationally.

Also, glyph of combustion may not always be used, depending on how time-frames in specific fights line up. A weaker combustion with a shorter cooldown might result in higher damage in specific fights when you can line up combustions with specific boss vulnerability(increased dmg) phases.

[Zavri]

Why you posting a "guide" when you don't even know stat numbers? It's 2063 haste rating required for the extra tick. Not 1505, Not 1963. It doesn't change for "individuals" It's FLAT 2063 without T13 bonus.

---------- Post added 2012-08-29 at 10:47 PM ----------

And just so you can understand in plain english i'll lay it out.

2063 haste rating + 500 T13 bonus + 5% Raid haste = 25% Haste

[zomgDPS]

Why you posting a "guide" when you don't even know stat numbers?

Better yet, why is he posting a 'guide' when he doesn't even have the basic mechanics of the spec down.

Combustion doesn't use LB DoT's in its calculation. There are a host of other inaccuracies and straight up wrongs in this 'guide'.

I suggest we get it locked and/or let the thread die. Otherwise this is nothing more than misinformation for mages coming here to learn about the class.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

1505 haste rating despite losing the 3% haste talent? I'd reconsider.

---------- Post added 2012-08-30 at 06:54 AM ----------

Why you posting a "guide" when you don't even know stat numbers? It's 2063 haste rating required for the extra tick. Not 1505, Not 1963. It doesn't change for "individuals" It's FLAT 2063 without T13 bonus.

---------- Post added 2012-08-29 at 10:47 PM ----------

And just so you can understand in plain english i'll lay it out.

2063 haste rating + 500 T13 bonus + 5% Raid haste = 25% Haste

The caps you aim for change for individuals based on glyphed combustion or goblin. There's no cap at 2563+5%, for any combination thereof, and that's definitely not 25%.

[Deleted]

I will not bash you, because as you say, it's not right. But there are multiple things wrong with your "guide".
1. Why on earth would you ever re-apply LB before it's exploded? There's no benefit to it at all. "5) REAPPLY NT/LB RIGHT AWAY THEN USE COMBUSTION (if HS PYROBLAST CRITS)"

2. Linked to the quote above. If you're going to be waiting for pyroblast off the forced HS to crit, you're going to be there for a while, or hope you get very lucky. This is exactly the reason blizzard changed the way you get pyroblasts. You don't have to wait for it to crit, you just have to ramp up a big enough ignite to compensate for the lack of a critted pb ignite. Ignite munching seemingly works different than it did in 4.3, thus making this easier to do so.

3. There is never a set bomb to use on all fights. You will near enough always change bombs to suit the needs of the boss in question. For eg. You'd use FB/LB > NT on yor'sahj due to the aoe nature of the fight, but in favour of LB due to you single targetting for a majority of the time too, and you're not wanting to spend more than 1 global reapplying a bomb that will only affect 1 target. (That's an example from DS. In t14's case, you'd use FB > NT/LB on a fight like wind lord due to the constant cleaving and the extra damage taken from the boss will affect the bomb's damage to the adds nearby him... I can name other fights from t14 DS for optimal usage of bombs, but I'd be here all day)

Any queries about what I said, ask.

[Pulski]

Why you posting a "guide" when you don't even know stat numbers? It's 2063 haste rating required for the extra tick. Not 1505, Not 1963. It doesn't change for "individuals" It's FLAT 2063 without T13 bonus.

---------- Post added 2012-08-29 at 10:47 PM ----------

And just so you can understand in plain english i'll lay it out.

2063 haste rating + 500 T13 bonus + 5% Raid haste = 25% Haste

1949 haste rating + 500 T13 bonus * 5% Raid haste = 25%

---------- Post added 2012-08-30 at 10:57 AM ----------

The caps you aim for change for individuals based on glyphed combustion or goblin. There's no cap at 2563+5%, for any combination thereof, and that's definitely not 25%.

Does glyphed Combustion tick every 2 seconds with the glyph instead of 1? That would change my math.

Edit: Still ticks every second, but as shown below the breakpoints do in fact change.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

1941, if my math isn't off.

(((1941+500)/128.125)*1.05)+5 = 25.004

Handy chart of extra ticks.

[Pulski]

1941, if my math isn't off.

(((1941+500)/128.125)*1.05)+5 = 25.004

Handy chart of extra ticks.

The handy chart says 2449 (-500 = 1949), 2298 for Goblins.

Edit: It's also probably worth noting, though, that if you aren't glyphing Combustion, this breakpoint is higher because you will never be at 10 stacks of stolen time. For every 50 haste you go over the cap, you can have 1 fewer stack and gain a tick.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

The handy chart says 2449 (-500 = 1949), 2298 for Goblins.

Right, right. Break points aren't exact percentages. But the closest you can get to 25% without going under is what I posted. Anyway I linked it mostly for the glyphed combustion numbers.

[Pulski]

Yeah, Lhiv just brought that to my attention too. I hadn't realized that half as much haste is needed to gain a tick on a glyphed combustion since it is ticking 20 times instead of 10, and those breakpoints aren't at the same points since they begin at 2.5% and then again every 5%.

I didn't scroll down to see the glyphed part of the table at first. >.<

[Kuni Zyrekai]

All good, we're both on the same page now. I couldn't figure out how best to describe it without drawing a picture of the ticks vs haste's effect, so I'm glad Lhiv was quick.

[Mage1]

Glad to see everyone is participating in this thread even with disagreements.

I kind of backed off to arguing about the haste because I figured you guys would figure it out yourselves and you did!

<3 lots of love.

[Deleted]

So are we supposed to use inferno blast for anything except spreading DOT's?

[Imnick]

Rotation:

1) NETHER TEMPEST OR LIVING BOMB (both currently do really close DPS together)
2) Fireball OR FROSTFIRE (if you chose that instead of evo).
3) IF ANY IN NUMBER 2 CRIT, USE INFERNO BLAST
4) HS PYROBLAST (lights up use it)
5) REAPPLY NT/LB RIGHT AWAY THEN USE COMBUSTION (if HS PYROBLAST CRITS)
6) THEN USE INFERNO BLAST
7) THEN USE HS PYROBLAST (this is what they call chaining it)
8) then Fireball or FROSTFIRE.

I don't know, you tell me