Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    The three periods in between Ticks represents the baseline 3 seconds between ticks. Therefore one can tell that the single period between the Final and Initial ticks denotes roughly 1 second, that's assuming a .75 second reaction time + 250 MS. I'm pretty sure that's easy enough for 90%+ of the player base which largely includes those not blessed with mechanical faculties.



    As I said previously you should have ideally been recasting DP immediately after the last tick throughout Cata. It's the same thing in MoP for SW:P.

    VT? Yeah recast to land about half a second before expiring. SW:P pre-5.0? Yeah recast about half a second before expiring.
    For me, losing a 2ms of dot uptime still counts as a loss. Care to argue that?

    Explain to me how DP was best to be refreshed immediately after the last tick. You still got your initial 30% DP burst, and the rest was the same as with any other dot - prolonging duration, not losing any ticks.

  2. #22
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Probably Sleeping
    Posts
    1,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    No need to be condescending.

    DoTs since Cataclysm have worked differently, meaning that when re-applied before the final tick, the tick is simply added onto the new duration without loss. This means that you don't lose DPS from latency. If you wait for the final tick of the DoT to go off (ie, the DoT drops off) and then re-apply, even if you're 100% perfect as a player your latency comes into account and you lose DPS, even if it's minimal.

    If you bothered to read through the threads on Shadowpriest.com (I really can't be bothered to find you a link) you'd find that the actual 'ideal' times to reapply DoTs was around the 6 second remaining mark, purely because of how DoTs work in Cataclysm. The only reason people don't do this, is because by refreshing DoTs too early means less Mind Flays -> greater DPS loss.
    My condescending tone comes out when someone is trying to spread incorrect information while stubbornly asserting that they're right.

    I'm very familiar with DoT mechanics. Yes recasting a DoT before the current one has expired will add that tick onto the new one, it's been that way for years now. In the case of Pre-5.0 DP and Post-5.0 SW:P the damage on cast means that if you refresh immediately after a tick you will gain almost a full extra tick's worth of damage in that same window of time over if you just refreshed before a tick.

    Shadowpriest.com is gone now (RIP good buddy!) but the new Shadowpriest.com is Veiled's HowToPriest.com (You really must check it out, it's quite awesome). Over there you can read through the threads and you may even stumble upon my little guide .

    Quote Originally Posted by Celentes View Post
    For me, losing a 2ms of dot uptime still counts as a loss. Care to argue that?

    Explain to me how DP was best to be refreshed immediately after the last tick. You still got your initial 30% DP burst, and the rest was the same as with any other dot - prolonging duration, not losing any ticks.
    ... if your DoT uptime was 2ms less but you got almost a full extra tick's worth of damage in that same window of time over if you just refreshed before a tick you would call that DPS loss? How... Wha... I don't even.

    See above for the answer to DP.



    More damage in the same amount of time = higher DPS

    If you all are still having trouble with this imagine a time line in your head where all the DoT ticks are mapped out. Don't make me break out some terribly laughable MS Paint picture on you!
    Last edited by Frmercury; 2012-09-01 at 01:25 PM. Reason: added post response

  3. #23
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In a tree
    Posts
    929
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    My condescending tone comes out when someone is trying to spread incorrect information while stubbornly asserting that they're right.

    I'm very familiar with DoT mechanics. Yes recasting a DoT before the current one has expired will add that tick onto the new one, it's been that way for years now. In the case of Pre-5.0 DP and Post-5.0 SW:P the damage on cast means that if you refresh immediately after a tick you will gain almost a full extra tick's worth of damage in that same window of time over if you just refreshed before a tick.

    Shadowpriest.com is gone now (RIP good buddy!) but the new Shadowpriest.com is Veiled's HowToPriest.com (You really must check it out, it's quite awesome). Over there you can read through the threads and you may even stumble upon my little guide .
    If you'd presented this argument instead of being condescending I wouldn't have stubbornly tried to assert that I was correct. I was stating what I thought was correct information based upon my own readings (and I'll actually point out that yours is the first I've heard of re-applying a DoT after a tick, hence why my initial reaction was to say yours was wrong).

    But, anywho. I see your argument and your point. Out of interest though, I assume re-applying *just* before the final/penultimate tick (so it ticks just after you re-apply) has the same consequences as re-applying *after* the final tick? The only thing I can think of that may cause it to perform slightly lower would be the then 'downtime' until the next tick but doesn't this also apply to your method as well?
    Last edited by Cycobi; 2012-09-01 at 02:01 PM.

  4. #24
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Probably Sleeping
    Posts
    1,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    But, anywho. I see your argument and your point. Out of interest though, I assume re-applying *just* before the final/penultimate tick (so it ticks just after you re-apply) has the same consequences as re-applying *after* the final tick? The only thing I can think of that may cause it to perform slightly lower would be the then 'downtime' until the next tick but doesn't this also apply to your method as well?
    Hmm, good question. Off to test!

  5. #25
    Care to explain 'gain almost a full tick of extra damage' again?
    The first 'tick' happens 3s after the application, less with haste. Initial 'tick' is an initial burst which always happens, either you refresh it or apply anew.

    Two situations:
    1. You cast SWP, initial tick happens, then it ticks normally for full duration, expires, you recast it, happens just like the first time minus the little gap between.
    2. You cast SWP, again initial tick + ticks after for full duration save for the last tick, you reapply it, initial tick happens, the prolonged tick happens faster than a normal tick, you get a prolonged duration with no ticks being wasted.
    The time between two ticks - zero tick and first tick, is not set in stone. They're treated as separate sources of damage.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    My condescending tone comes out when someone is trying to spread incorrect information while stubbornly asserting that they're right.

    I'm very familiar with DoT mechanics. Yes recasting a DoT before the current one has expired will add that tick onto the new one, it's been that way for years now. In the case of Pre-5.0 DP and Post-5.0 SW:P the damage on cast means that if you refresh immediately after a tick you will gain almost a full extra tick's worth of damage in that same window of time over if you just refreshed before a tick.

    Shadowpriest.com is gone now (RIP good buddy!) but the new Shadowpriest.com is Veiled's HowToPriest.com (You really must check it out, it's quite awesome). Over there you can read through the threads and you may even stumble upon my little guide .



    ... if your DoT uptime was 2ms less but you got almost a full extra tick's worth of damage in that same window of time over if you just refreshed before a tick you would call that DPS loss? How... Wha... I don't even.

    See above for the answer to DP.



    More damage in the same amount of time = higher DPS

    If you all are still having trouble with this imagine a time line in your head where all the DoT ticks are mapped out. Don't make me break out some terribly laughable MS Paint picture on you!

    Are you assuming that the initial damage doesn't happen if you refresh the DoT? That's dead wrong and not how it works. If you don't believe so go put SWP up on a target dummy and continue spamming it. Not only will you get the instant damage portion every time you cast it, but you will also get the normal ticks occuring every 3 seconds which is then affected by haste.

    The best practice with all spriest DoTs is to recast them before the last tick and after the second to last tick. You don't lose anything by doing so and you don't have any downtime at all waiting for the spell to reach the server and be cast.

  7. #27
    Reapply it just before the final tick like we have for years now, nothing has changed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    My condescending tone comes out when someone is trying to spread incorrect information while stubbornly asserting that they're right.
    Pot meet kettle.
    Last edited by DeiVias; 2012-09-02 at 05:30 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprints View Post
    Reapply it just before the final tick like we have for years now, nothing has changed.




    Pot meet kettle.
    Yep , his theory is the same if you refreshed after any tick. Even if you refresh between the last two ticks it does the exact same thing because of the dot rollover mechanic. barring latency / mechanics and human error , while in theory what was stated is true , it isnt something you can put into truly effective practice on anything beyond a target dummy encounter.
    HTML Code:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/doomhammer/Johnish/simple

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    My condescending tone comes out when someone is trying to spread incorrect information while stubbornly asserting that they're right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sprints View Post
    Pot meet kettle.
    Offtopic: I believe that such position generally requires very strong self criticism to work properly.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Yes, DoTs still work on a 'when you cast it' basis, so if you cast, say VT, when you have your Pot, Lightweave (assuming tailor), PT, Synapse Springs, etc all up, then refresh early you lose DPS. Likewise, if you refresh at the beginning of a PT proc, provided you have more SP than when you previously applied the DoT it's a (very small) DPS increase.
    Are you sure about that? I thought the buff had to present when the spell landed on the target. Perhaps it was just different with the old mastery, as that had to be active on you when the spell landed, or you wouldn't not get the dot spellpower increase.

    i.e. if you had 0.5 sec remaining on Power Torrent and you cast Vampiric Touch, you will not get the benefit of said Power Torrent.
    Last edited by Giant; 2012-09-02 at 07:34 PM.

  11. #31
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Probably Sleeping
    Posts
    1,082
    I was completely wrong.

    Regardless of when you refresh SW:P it continues on the original timeline when it was first cast. So yeah as long as you're not 'wasting GCDs' it is optimal to cast it before the final tick.

  12. #32
    Titan Nixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    ooo es eh
    Posts
    12,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    My condescending tone comes out when someone is trying to spread incorrect information while stubbornly asserting that they're right.
    No, it pretty much comes from you being an incredible twat-waffle with a strong love for pointless douchebaggery.

    There's no need for name calling.
    Last edited by Arlee; 2012-09-04 at 05:24 PM.

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Probably Sleeping
    Posts
    1,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixxy View Post
    No, it pretty much comes from you being an incredible twat-waffle with a strong love for pointless douchebaggery.
    Says Nixx, lul.

    The difference between you and me is that I can admit when I'm wrong :P

  14. #34
    Man you dodged a bullet, Woad. I was so ready to fire some internet hate missiles your way. Then you pleasantly surprised me by owning up, good on you, buddy! I wish I were badass enough to bow to truth after so pompously defending a lie. That takes balls, let's be friends!

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixxy View Post
    No, it pretty much comes from you being an incredible twat-waffle with a strong love for pointless douchebaggery.
    That was completely unnecessary, especially considering he acknowledged the mistake.

  16. #36
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Probably Sleeping
    Posts
    1,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh View Post
    Man you dodged a bullet, Woad. I was so ready to fire some internet hate missiles your way. Then you pleasantly surprised me by owning up, good on you, buddy! I wish I were badass enough to bow to truth after so pompously defending a lie. That takes balls, let's be friends!
    All I really care about is that the truth comes out in the end. I've been wrong before, here and will be wrong again. Truth will out and all that stuff.

  17. #37
    Field Marshal darassper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    79
    Lol way off topic now...
    *Insert awesome/random/funny signature here*

  18. #38
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    5,470
    I'm just glad to see so many old school priest-forumers showing up out of the woodwork ^^
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  19. #39
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In a tree
    Posts
    929
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    I was completely wrong.

    Regardless of when you refresh SW:P it continues on the original timeline when it was first cast. So yeah as long as you're not 'wasting GCDs' it is optimal to cast it before the final tick.
    So I was correct?
    Nah, at least you owned up to it. Better than most on the internet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giant View Post
    Are you sure about that? I thought the buff had to present when the spell landed on the target. Perhaps it was just different with the old mastery, as that had to be active on you when the spell landed, or you wouldn't not get the dot spellpower increase.

    i.e. if you had 0.5 sec remaining on Power Torrent and you cast Vampiric Touch, you will not get the benefit of said Power Torrent.
    Think of it this way:
    If you begin a cast with a Haste buff, but the haste buff finishes before you complete the cast, the cast doesn't lengthen, it stays the same. I assume, and perhaps wrongly, that this applies to SP buffs too. So long as you begin the cast before the said proc/temporary buff finishes, the cast will proceed as though you had the buff.
    It's logical to me, but you might want to do your own testing to be sure. As I said, I'm making assumptions but I'm fairly confident I'm correct here.

  20. #40
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    6,365
    SW:P refreshing is really pushing mop shadow skillcap to the sky.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •