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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    It's worth noting that if you've done everything you care to do, there's no harm in not playing for a while and coming back later. There's no subscription fee, so you can always take a break.
    This is a sorry excuse for the game. I can do the same thing in a P2P MMO, nobody is forcing me to keep my subscription active. I end my subscription and come back later when there are new things to do. That "you can quit and come back later" excuse just doesn't cut it.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by OscaR View Post
    You want to explore because the game's just out for a week. You don't know where things are, stuffs are still new and you want to see what places look like. "Exploring" and crafting being the things you do at end game is just weak. Dynamic Events are basically quests, sure, it kinda is a new system but it won't last when you realize they aren't really that different.
    When I'm at the highest level in the game, I want to do meaningful things that "matter". I'm one of those people that enjoy the scenery in games ALOT but you can't just have exploring as endgame. Crafting even being considered is just beyond me. Sure people have different tastes but it just seems like they are saying things just to have a longer list.
    I really want GW2 to succeed, and so far I enjoy the game, and i'm sorry, but this is true.

    The more I play, the more i'm worried that reaching lvl 80 i will have absolutely no goal in this game. I've played something like 20 hours and already seen like 25% of the world (according to the game itself). No doubt I will reach 80, then explore the entire world, but that will not be enough.

    What will happen when i have nothing to explore left? When I will have 100%? This is something that scares be since beta.

    Sure, the exploration is nice, the world is quite amazing, but come on, a new MMO in 2012 cannot be entirely based on exploration...

    Exploration is something we really missed from the old WoW, but you can't do a whole game around it. I wouldn't pay a game if the only thing I wanted is to explore, i'd rather go visit another country. I also want to feel progression, evolution, knowing that i'm becoming better and better, optimization, and i really worry that this will never be in Guild Wars 2.

    I think some of us got fooled, because they were expecting to have the features we love about MMOs (listed above) AND this very nice ADDITION of exploration.
    We only got exploration.

    /sad

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Toinouze View Post
    I really want GW2 to succeed, and so far I enjoy the game, and i'm sorry, but this is true.

    The more I play, the more i'm worried that reaching lvl 80 i will have absolutely no goal in this game. I've played something like 20 hours and already seen like 25% of the world (according to the game itself). No doubt I will reach 80, then explore the entire world, but that will not be enough.

    What will happen when i have nothing to explore left? When I will have 100%? This is something that scares be since beta.

    Sure, the exploration is nice, the world is quite amazing, but come on, a new MMO in 2012 cannot be entirely based on exploration...

    Exploration is something we really missed from the old WoW, but you can't do a whole game around it. I wouldn't pay a game if the only thing I wanted is to explore, i'd rather go visit another country. I also want to feel progression, evolution, knowing that i'm becoming better and better, optimization, and i really worry that this will never be in Guild Wars 2.

    I think some of us got fooled, because they were expecting to have the features we love about MMOs (listed above) AND this very nice ADDITION of exploration.
    We only got exploration.

    /sad
    Really? You aren't going to do hard mode dungeons or PVP? It's pretty much the same as any other MMO at the end of the game.

  4. #84
    If we use an other games endgame , atleast we must be sured it delivers what is promished or deliver it fast enought :P
    Then implant them in GW2 :P
    If we are talking about Rift-every-1.5-motnh-patch-update , then yeah it wold be lovely for GW2
    Last edited by Plzbegentle; 2012-08-31 at 09:50 AM.
    GW2 : Plzbegentle - Ruins of Surmia EU - Sylvari Engineer
    WoW: Vergin - Deathwing EU - Elf Resto Druid (27/05/05 - 02/04/12 Perma-Banned- Unhappy whinning PvP customer - whos begged from 4.1 to get rid of the RNG of Regrowth ... )
    It seems ppl have the energy to whine for a game , for not beeing exactly like their <<main>> game , while it dont have a SUB , and they dont have the courage to whine at their Game Master for slacking and producing few PvE content ...

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by carnifex2005 View Post
    Really? You aren't going to do hard mode dungeons or PVP? It's pretty much the same as any other MMO at the end of the game.
    I will. PvP is nice, but i'm not the kind of guy joining BGs 6h/day. Plus the PvP gameplay is somewhat disappointing for me.

    I don't think this game is bad, but i was expecting it to be in my top 3 games. I guess it will just be a random game i used to play, which was nice and entertaining for a while, like Diablo 3 and almost every other game i played.

    But it certainly was not that FANTASTIC game that would change my videogame vision.

  6. #86

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    That, in particular, is going to take up a LOT of my time. Combing each and every pixel of the game to find all the secrets I can. So far I've only found one in Plains of Ashford, and one in Wayfarer Foothills. I know where the Caledon Forest one is, but haven't worked much on my Sylvari. I need to do more exploring.
    Caldeon forest has 3
    Last edited by zito; 2012-08-31 at 10:27 AM.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishyface View Post
    In the past few days ive gone through as much information as i can about gw2, among all the features that ive seen listed im not seeing anything that i consider endgame. So my question to everyone is what is endgame at 80?

    The only answers ive seen to this question so far is zone completion and pvp. If those are the only two is there some type of geargrind for each one ?
    I always thought some devs will continously work on upgrading the large scale dynamic events, having new "tiers", raid-like event chains+bosses weekly/monthly, whatever, with new loot on them, making sure it will take a very long time, while you get your full orange gear (for example you can get your orange shoulders just once in two weeks, when the events get to a point where the specific boss, which drops the shoulders will show up - if you fail on previous events it may never show up at all).

  9. #89
    This game has raids, most of them are just open world. Eventually they will likely implement 'classic' raiding with a dungeon finder and all of that, just to shut people up.

    In the mean time you have this:
    1. End-game contested territory warfare (similar to Kurzick/Luxon, but on an epic scale).
    2. End-game world raids which offer some of the best loot/vendors and actually pose a challenge.
    3. End-game dungeons and explorable modes (aka Hard Mode), do not shrug these off.
    4. End-game Legendary Weapons through bosses or crafting (similar to Thunderfury/Sulfuras in early WoW)
    5. Achievements. Cannot understate the importance this one. Guild Wars 1 had enough titles and cosmetic gear through achievements (mostly through long, difficult grinds or extremely difficult achievements) that kept players going for years after EotN.

    That's not even mentioning the expansions. Stop saying there is no end game.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toinouze View Post
    I also want to feel progression, evolution, knowing that i'm becoming better and better, optimization, and i really worry that this will never be in Guild Wars 2.
    However, you are not really becoming better. You get bigger numbers on your gear, but that only means that with the next tier, the monsters you are fighting will also have commensurately bigger numbers to compensate. Unless you derive satisfaction from going back and pwning Bastion of Twilight in heroic Dragonsoul gear (which practically nobody does), this kind of progression is an illusion.

    I think some of us got fooled, because they were expecting to have the features we love about MMOs (listed above) AND this very nice ADDITION of exploration.
    We only got exploration.
    No. You can, as in WoW, go back and do the same instance over and over if you wish to. GW2 just doesn't dangle a carrot (gear with bigger stats) in front of your nose.

    With respect to being fooled, ArenaNet has been very explicit and upfront about gear being capped and the only upgrade path being visuals. They have made their share of mistakes, but they were not trying to fool anyone with respect to the endgame.
    Last edited by Sylvanie; 2012-08-31 at 10:51 AM.

  11. #91
    This game is a huge sandbox basically, with some pointers here and there. I was discussing the "end-game" thing with some friends yesterday and we basically all came to the conclusion that WoW fucked up the MMO genre. If you had to compare GW2 with another game, it probably has more similarities with DAoC than GW1. A game which most of the WoW-players today wouldn't even know even though it layed the foundation for their all-time favourite.

    First of all, your first MMO is like your first love, it will always be your first and true love and all love you find afterwards will always be measured against that first one. Most people that are whining about GW2 today are people where WoW was their first MMO. They don't want something else, they want more content. Or a WoW 2.0.

    Second, most MMO-players nowadays are used to being spoon fed with "fun". They don't make fun on their own, they want someone to prepare the fun for them and present it to them on a nice little platter. Yesterday me and my friends spend hours doing the Morgan's Leap in Caledon Forest, it's not a quest, not an event, not a dungeon, not a vista, not even a point of interest, yet we had hours of fun just laughing at falling down, killing mobs, getting killed, starting over and finally completing it. As a former raider, I have to say, after completing that achievement I felt the same rush as killing Ragnaros 1.0 the first time.

    Finally, in the beginning an RPG was about the story, the exploration, the character progression, the discovery, the professions, etc... Now, I understand times change, but these were and still are the foundations. Then raids came into play, to occupy those who completed the game, hence the term "end-game". Nowadays, this is where the focus lies: the end of the game. "Let's rush through those 80 levels as fast as we can so we can start playing the game!" Wait... What? This is the world upside down!

    Imagine there's this great feast with every delicious food on the planet. WoW players will ravage this feast as fast as they can to start on the desserts (which they ravage equally fast) and then whine that there's not enough food. RPG players will take their time to taste every bit of food this feast has to offer and in the meantime have a conversation with their fellow dinner guests.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    It's worth noting that if you've done everything you care to do, there's no harm in not playing for a while and coming back later. There's no subscription fee, so you can always take a break.
    And this person gets it! +1

  13. #93
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    Like in every other MMOs you will be playing Hard mode dungeons , world events and PvP.To be honest PvP isn't yet done but you can always play sPvP even if you are level 1 and to get some better loadout and such.There will be arena , more PvP mini games also known as activites that are like some sports etc. WvWvW is brilliantly made, for you who doesn't know it's Server vs Server vs Server battle , every Server starts with his Keep on the map and they need to capture towers, steal resources from enemies, polute enemy water and so on. You can also do some quests ,gather materials or raise proffesions there.
    Last edited by Tidurion; 2012-08-31 at 12:27 PM.

  14. #94
    guild wars 2 is more about the journey, less about the destination.sure there are some endgame-ish things to do as many people have pointed out,but of course not "true" endgame stuff that we all may be used to from other games, like raiding etc.but i knew this going in ,haveing done my research before spending my hard earned money on a product(like i always do with everything),maybe you and all the complainers should have too? you can always reroll ,there are lots of classes, you have them all at 80? i didnt think so......

    also,off subject, i see a lot of folks ohh and ahing about gw2 graphics, and i will admit they are very nice.i run the game flawless, full settings.but i also play another game i run near max and has very, very, similar graphics ,its called rift.these games graphics are very close in fidelity and art/design imo......
    Last edited by Sariengrey; 2012-08-31 at 12:39 PM.

  15. #95
    The question is 'what do I do after I beat the main story and don't want to do any more heart quests?'

    The answer is 'enough to keep you busy until the expansion'

    There is a LOT to do in this game. But the people complaining about 'end-game' are non-completionists. They know there is a lot to do, but they want to do something different. If you want something specific, say it. If you don't like what is presented in this game, explain why. This game, as stated previously, is meant to be FUN. At the same time, if you want to be able to prove yourself better than everyone else, you CAN. There is insanely good (plus badass looking) gear at end-game for all kinds of events, dungeons, and pvp. There are titles that you have to EARN by doing ridiculously difficult challenges and grinds, which is end-game if I've ever heard of it.

    I just want to know why people aren't satisfied. I don't get it, I really don't.

  16. #96
    There is PVP which is self explanatory and its almos skill based entirely(the bg one)and WvWvW where in 2-4 weeks we will be having a decent elo ranking so then we will see the trully good servers.

    and PVE

    now when you read PVE think about it....are you a PVE player OR a raider.If you are a RAIDER and nothing else then this game is not for you...IF you are a PVE player then you will have plenty to do.

    Exploring. in every zone there are things you need to find AND jumping puzzles so a good chunk will go there.

    Dungeons. there aer 8 dungeons with each one having 3 diferent sub dungeons plus the story mode meaning 32 dungeons for you to farm for that awesome looking
    dungeon gear that is exlusively to each dungeon.

    Achievements.The game has them you can do them too.Go do the lvl to 80 without dying one :P

    Gathering pets.If you are a colector the game that too.

    Dynamic events.Many DE are chains meaning that you actually follow a like on what is happening in every zone and there are many awesome DE along the way(the shaterer and tequatl and the shadow behemoth)

    Now i dont mention ORR(the last only lvl 80 zone) because i dont know what is happening there :P but from what i read there is a constant PVE war going on.

    Also every zone delevels you to its own level so,you actually do every zone as you are in the normal level(give or take +2)consider that where ever you go in lower level zones than yours you will always be on its level.

    Legendaries i dont know how those things work exactly but the grind for them seems epic and there are a sh!t load of them to grind...somewhere i read its something like 200 hours to gather the mats only

    Profesions.If you are a true profesion guy and dont want to spoil your game with wikis and stuff...the game has a minecraft aproach on prefesions...you can actually put mats together and the game will unlock you recipes.Also you are able to have ALL proffesions with 2 active at 1 time so you can respec to each one without losing your recipes.

    Gold hunting to go and buy everything from the gem shop(i know its not pve per see but you can do it so :P )

    Those are the things that you can do in GW2 if you are a PVE player....remember if you are a RAIDER then this game IS NOT FOR YOU UNLESS you happen to be a PVE player too.


    If you finish all those and there is nothing else to make you happy stop and wait for a patch or something...

    PS.For the raiders the gear grind is in the game its just mostly cosmetic.Which is the same about the gear in RAIDING games after some time too.
    Last edited by antonatsis; 2012-08-31 at 12:43 PM.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by florestan View Post
    duh, they use raiding as an example for endgame content, the idea of endgame is all about vertical character progression as you yourself have already pointed out.

    As you level up your character's absolute power increases but so does the power of the enemies you face - the relative power increase is within very narrow limits and gets nullified once you enter the next zone.

    The PvE Endgame is special because your character's relative power starts to increase (in WoW it does even increase in an exponential way once you reached level-cap) - with each week you actually become more powerful compared to the NPCs you face and that feels very satisfying.

    PvP doesn't have an "endgame" in that sense as your enemies' power increases at roughly the same rate as yours. Even WoW pvp takes a break from "progression = better gear" at some point and gives you a ranking system, cosmetic gear that can be unlocked, achievements, ...

    I guess you could try to capture some of the pvp playstyle by emphasizing competitive PvE - having official rankings where continued activity is required to maintain your rank. But that would leave behind a lot of the more casually oriented players who just enjoy seeing their character grow in power.

    Guild Wars 2 seems to be based on the assumption that players care very much about character completion (as opposed to feeling powerful or being competitive) and I have some doubts regarding that assumption.
    Thats a very valid way of looking at endgame oriented activities, im one of those people who likes to grow in power and im not so much about character completion.
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  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Peon View Post
    Sorry Kelesti I disagree with you . It does have need a wow like end game IMO because to be honest wow has just as much to do at end game as GW2 does and people stop playing when they hit the a wall with challenging content in WOW . Yes Gw1 has been playing for 7 years ...so has Everquest 1 ..heck there are MUD mmo's that have been online almost 20 years but just because a game is still online does not make a it a success . Those games have paid for themselves because they where fairly cheap to make . GW2 is a massive game with a massive budget they need lots of people buy the game and buying stuff from the store to keep operating unlike those older games that who stay operating because they have a TINY dev team that keeps the pulse going .

    Name a single MMO that is or was successful that did not have raiding as the end game ???
    While I won't say that raiding is mandatory for a game to be successful (an example of a successful MMO without it is EVE, though that could be more of a sandbox vs. themepark discussion), I do think that the whole "there is no endgame/the whole game is endgame" is a bit misleading. The fact that there are 80 levels to go through reinforces the concept of some kind of "end".

    You can say things like... "Sure, there are 80 levels but don't rush and you'll enjoy it more" or "You downlevel when you do older content so it all remains relevant"... but in most games besides golf, bigger numbers are better. If the "last" level is 80, the implication is that it is the "best" to be. Once you hit it, you're capped; that method of progression is over.

    I almost like the leveling approach of GW1 over GW2, as the latter seems a bit counter-intuitive. For the original, ArenaNet saw that customers didn't want to grind through pointless levels to get to the good stuff, so they made a lower number of levels and made it very quick and easy to max out. For the sequel, I think they took a step backward. Instead of removing the level system altogether (or making some other kind of optimization to it), they went the opposite direction and added more levels, while still trying to enforce the idea that level doesn't REALLY matter by keeping the rate of leveling fairly steady.
    Last edited by potaco; 2012-08-31 at 01:20 PM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sebbah View Post
    This is a sorry excuse for the game. I can do the same thing in a P2P MMO, nobody is forcing me to keep my subscription active. I end my subscription and come back later when there are new things to do. That "you can quit and come back later" excuse just doesn't cut it.
    I disagree. If that is a sorry excuse for a game then what about games like tetris, space invaders, etc. Nowadays they are reduced to being played on mobile phone for only 2-3 minutes at a time... What failures those games are!

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Peon View Post
    Name a single MMO that is or was successful that did not have raiding as the end game ???
    Ultima Online, EVE online, World of Tanks.

    The problem with your statement is what's your definition of successful? WoT for example probably wasn't even on your radar but it's a profitable game with an active community and frequent updates. The whole premise of the game is 15v15 tank battles. WoT is f2p with a micro transaction store.

    UO was the first subscription based MMO to really get big (100k+ subscribers) and went on for quite a while. It had no raiding to speak of.

    Another contemporary example is EVE Online, there's no raiding there but it's doing just fine.

    There's likely more, especially in this day and age where the f2p model and genres other than RPG are gaining popularity.
    Last edited by drockrock; 2012-08-31 at 02:21 PM.

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