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  1. #521
    High Overlord Motoma's Avatar
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    None of mine crit tonight either.

  2. #522

  3. #523
    Warchief
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    I hope you didn't report bear hug dot could crit. Lets just keep that a secret lol

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by rated View Post
    I hope you didn't report bear hug dot could crit. Lets just keep that a secret lol
    Meh. I don't care about it and it's not gamebreaking.

  5. #525
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Which bosses should I start with HotW (whether as cat or wrath spam (not using a caster wep. for wrath spam, as the 471 is so meh compared to my 522 agi wep))? I mean on which is it worth it?

    Jin'rokh - the time when the debuff is placed on MT happens very soon. [not sure if viable]
    Horridon - I start boss, then take first door. [not possible]
    Council - I have Malak from start. [not possible]
    Tortos - possible with wrath spam I guess until first bats (I am the bat tank). [haven't tried it, but seems okei]
    Megeara - using HotW+tranq on 6th Rampage [using as healing CD]
    Ji-kun - I am starting with Wrath spam [using]
    Durumu - starting with Wrath spam [using]
    Primordius - not sure... As I will go and deal with the blobs, so maybe those die faster when I am cat. [haven't tried it and unsure if optimal]
    Dark Animus - [not possible]
    Iron Qon - starting as cat, maybe with wrath it would be better [using]
    Twins - not sure is cat or wrath spam better [using as cat]
    Lei Shen - starting in cat [using]

    I am the OT always so I go second for all bosses. Would like some input where am I using HotW when it is a loss and where should I be using instead?
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  6. #526
    I am raiding 25man and mostly i am MT or we share boss form max uptime vengeance.
    I use HotW only for Heroic Dark Animus because of stamina bonus . HotW + TF stamina trinket give me enought HP to survive explosive slams at late phase
    Other fight is better use NV with berserk + Incartanion for DPS boost. Maybe Mageara at progress was good NV at each rampage with decent AP for saving low health people.

  7. #527
    I am using HotW on every fight whenever I can, on normal using even while tanking currently boss
    Dunno that wrathing its even worth to spaming

  8. #528
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    wrath has been enrfed quite a few times, currently is pretty mcuh a dps loss. hurricane does still work on like group of like 8+ adds
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by kimek View Post
    I am using HotW on every fight whenever I can, on normal using even while tanking currently boss
    Dunno that wrathing its even worth to spaming
    Since we've been having some new healers join the team, or we run one healer less than normal, I've been sticking to HotW for Tranquility as an additional raid cooldown... and I thoroughly enjoy the new target cap in 25man.

    On encounters where it's not really needed for healing purposes, I've just been sticking with it since DPS is not really an issue. I will say doing simply Wrath spam on some encounters usually keeps me on par or slightly better than the current tank's DPS, and things like pots/time warp/procs just make it perform a bit better (I tend to total around 5-7 million damage total, roughly 110-145k DPS). Nature's Vigil should beat out HotW in terms of damage on average, and I've never really taken NV for the healing since, when used in those high raid damage situations, the impact was fairly negligible anyways unless I had extremely high Vengeance... I consider it a bonus more than a raid healing cooldown.

    Long story short, either HotW or NV is acceptable, most people likely wouldn't notice a DPS change unless they directly compare the damage between the two anyways. NV is also much easier to fit in than HotW in terms of DPS, since you don't really have to change what you'd normally do while tanking to benefit.
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  10. #530
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Wrath might be nerfed, but I do enjoy my average hit of 160k with BL up to 320k crits. And since I as the OT start w/o vengeance and would do shit DPS whether being in cat or wrathing during HotW will keep my DPS on bar with the other tank.

    I raid 10-man and it seems that the more DPS the tanks do, the better for the raid group in general. So that's why I am seeking ways to improve my initial burst and general DPS when I am not tanking.

    My burst DPS and DPS during the fight while using HotW whether in cat or wrathing will be higher, when I just would use NV.

    It just feels soo... IDK crap... to sit on pull with 40-50kish DPS..., while other tank gets close to 100k. Poping incarnation and zerk w/o vengeance would be even a greater loss. Getting threat when need be, if I would start with low DPS/0 vengeance, would mean that other tank has to stop DPS and that as well doesn't really feel right.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  11. #531
    You can always take a few hits at the start so you get a little vengeance and then the other tank taunt the boss off of you. This way you can use your cooldowns at the start with some vengeance.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Wasboz View Post
    You can always take a few hits at the start so you get a little vengeance and then the other tank taunt the boss off of you. This way you can use your cooldowns at the start with some vengeance.
    Only works if you don't typically outthreat your co-tank, though, otherwise you're asking for trouble.

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  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    It just feels soo... IDK crap... to sit on pull with 40-50kish DPS..., while other tank gets close to 100k. Poping incarnation and zerk w/o vengeance would be even a greater loss. Getting threat when need be, if I would start with low DPS/0 vengeance, would mean that other tank has to stop DPS and that as well doesn't really feel right.
    As Wasboz said, you can taunt temporarily to get half the Vengeance of the current tank. That being said, the actual DPS bonus heavily depends on the encounter. The decay effect is pretty brutal if all one does is taunt w/o actually being the targets of attacks/spells, and the actual tanks needs quite a bit of Vengeance for this to have an appreciable effect. For example, taunting for Vengeance works fairly well near the end of Horridon, pretty dismal during P1 of Twin Consorts. In the end, though, I'd safely say Wrath spamming w/o special buffs likely would beat taunting for Vengeance except in extreme cases.

    On a side note, wasn't Wrath spamming power lowered for just Feral since it was scaling much better than actually being kitty? Don't really remember it being lowered for Guardians, especially since it basically won't exceed our actual tanking DPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
    Only works if you don't typically outthreat your co-tank, though, otherwise you're asking for trouble.
    That's the other side of the coin, and where I would get into trouble. I'm typically co-tanking with a DK now, and since I'm hit/exp capped I give him a run for his money... not really his fault, I blame class design since they don't really want offensive stats for survival. On certain encounters, especially heroic Iron Qon, I literally have to only auto-attack and apply T&C on proc quite a bit so I don't steal aggro (if RoR procs, I can almost beat a glyphed Dancing Rune Weapon w/o special CDs). If I tank with my warrior co-tank, who is also hit/exp capped, that's a completely different story as our damage output if fairly similar.

    I suppose the moral of the story is that taunting for Vengeance is a min/max tactic with very minimal gain but moderate to high risk involved.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  14. #534
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    i thought vegence only worked in bearfrom and didnt affect cat form
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    i thought vegence only worked in bearfrom and didnt affect cat form
    DPS in cat form as Guardian spec is horrible; auto-attacking with decent amounts of vengeance in bear form does comparable numbers and you maintain threat.

  16. #536
    The Patient Navoan's Avatar
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    I primarily use NV but there are a few encounters (Heroics) I use HotW (Wrath spamming). I do switch my weapon, to a 522 caster weap, I'm averaging 222021.6 hits and 485277.5 crits (Taken from my last Durumu HC kill http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7458&e=7876).

    Tortos progression (You can fit almost the whole duration in at the start) the extra Sta was nice for the first kill too. I don't use HotW anymore though, NV on bats is just win.
    Magaera, this was simply for the Tranq+Rejuv spam during the 5th transition, I can push massive healing with it (whilst being in bear form after the tranq).
    Ji-kun, you can get almost the entire duration here depending on how many stacks you're comfortable with on one tank, think I did progress with NV.
    Durumu, no brainer here, HotW duration lines up perfectly with a BL/pre-pot on the pull. If you stand far back and pre-cast on 4 secs to the pull HotW lasts 1sec into the Light Spectrum, win.

    I used to use HotW on Lei Shen but p1 dmg is so unnecessary that I've figured NV offers more effective DPS throughout the fight.

    One thing you also need to note with HotW is that it doesn't proc the legendary meta, which varies from 12-15% of my overall dmg on fights. I still believe it far outweighs the dmg I can do if/when I don't pull/tank first, even with a quick taunt swap for initial vengeance (and sitting down to get crit) it still wouldn't make up anywhere near the numbers HotW+Wrath spam could with pre-pot, BL and trinkets proccing at the start (imo).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Wrath might be nerfed, but I do enjoy my average hit of 160k with BL up to 320k crits ... I raid 10-man and it seems that the more DPS the tanks do, the better for the raid group in general. So that's why I am seeking ways to improve my initial burst and general DPS when I am not tanking.
    @Sonni - Some interesting info: I've seen upwards of 650k crits with my HotW Wraths, are you switching weapon, that dmg seems very low comparing to what I'm getting. Edit: Just checked fraps from my first kill (when I only had a 491 1-hander caster weap, 3 weeks ago) and I was critting for 550k steadily with trinket procs
    Last edited by Navoan; 2013-05-25 at 07:14 AM.

  17. #537
    ye i have crit when using hotw that reach 700k så ye remeber to use spellcaster weapon

  18. #538
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    @Sonni - Some interesting info: I've seen upwards of 650k crits with my HotW Wraths, are you switching weapon, that dmg seems very low comparing to what I'm getting.
    I have a 471 caster blue. So no, I am not switching weapons, gave up on that a while ago, seeing that seem to get much better numbers with my agility wep. Using my agility poking stick with prepot. Here is my latest Durumu log, where I used wrath. I usually (no matter the duration on HotW left) switch to bear as soon as the beam materialize.
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  19. #539
    Just got rune tonight, so naturally I got some questions right away:
    Do I need to reforge to anything specific like 1/1/1 which cats do?
    Why is it bis? Is it only because there is nothing better without swimming in hit?
    And last and most important, how do I use it? I understand the concept of using it for cat, but bear usage doesn't seem as clear to me.
    Thanks in advance

  20. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andaja View Post
    Do I need to reforge to anything specific like 1/1/1 which cats do?
    No. You want it to proc crit and since as a Guardian you're geming crit anyways this is a non issue.

    Why is it bis?
    Because we like crit and this trinket gives a huge amount of it.

    Is it only because there is nothing better without swimming in hit?
    No.

    And last and most important, how do I use it? I understand the concept of using it for cat, but bear usage doesn't seem as clear to me.
    Thanks in advance
    Well you equip it and go attack something and watch the numbers fly across your screen. It's really not complicated like it is for Ferals lol
    Last edited by rated; 2013-05-26 at 10:16 PM.

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