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  1. #581
    Quote Originally Posted by ringstrom View Post
    how much crit should i max get i have 72% crit atm
    Once you hit 79% on your character sheet Crit falls way, way behind Haste in terms of RPS. At that point you decide whether you want more DPS (Crit), more Armor (Mastery) or more RPS/Mitigation (Haste).

    Personally I'll probably be going for more Haste at that point.

    As for the 2pc/4pc bonuses.....

    The 2pc bonus is kinda boring. Depending on how it works you could theoretically get a full minute of constant SD (or maybe a bit more). The SD portion of it will always be useful, while the FR portion will be kind of random.

    I actually really like the 4pc bonus. We already have an incredibly strong on-demand heal in FR, we don't need another one. This bonus is very deceptive in that it appears weak, but the amount of healing you're going to get from it will be ridiculous.

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post

    I actually really like the 4pc bonus. We already have an incredibly strong on-demand heal in FR, we don't need another one. This bonus is very deceptive in that it appears weak, but the amount of healing you're going to get from it will be ridiculous.
    Maybe the amount is not that bad, but still I dont think it will be noticeable on fights if you havce that hot or not. Yes you will have about 100% uptime and with 800k hp thats about 10k hps (dont know how often it ticks would be good to know), now considering overheal of 30-40%(and I think it will be alot higher) you will be doing 7-8 k effective hps, I doubt that will help alot. Would love to see it work with/like the new yseras gift . Which would be very cool. All the other tanks with absorbs get a heal why not give the Druids an absorb.

  3. #583
    High Overlord Motoma's Avatar
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    Set bonuses look pretty good honestly, considering they are bumping the ilvl of the items further the 4 part is gonna be pretty insane.

  4. #584
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    Maybe the amount is not that bad, but still I dont think it will be noticeable on fights if you havce that hot or not. Yes you will have about 100% uptime and with 800k hp thats about 10k hps (dont know how often it ticks would be good to know), now considering overheal of 30-40%(and I think it will be alot higher) you will be doing 7-8 k effective hps, I doubt that will help alot. Would love to see it work with/like the new yseras gift . Which would be very cool. All the other tanks with absorbs get a heal why not give the Druids an absorb.
    With some of the mechanics that were listed for the next tier it seems like there will be a bit more aura AoE damage than previous tiers so the hot may be more useful; during progress at least.
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  5. #585
    Is there a chart of DPS value for each stat as a bear?

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by Troyan View Post
    Is there a chart of DPS value for each stat as a bear?
    I'm pretty sure some of more knowledgeable druids will be able to help you more, but from my point of view, the rage build is the dps build. On theincbear forums Arielle have made the bis list which works quite well for dps. As for the values, pretty sure there are none, unless someone researched them for personal needs.
    If you need them for reforge matters id suggest to download reforgelite, it has stat priorities where you can imput the rage build or any other build you want and itll regorge everything for you.

  7. #587
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    with the 4pc bones heal beeying 10% of health, i do see bears stamina stacking in 5.4
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    with the 4pc bones heal beeying 10% of health, i do see bears stamina stacking in 5.4
    You will lose alot of Ragegain from crit and can use less SD and T&C or FR, you will take more dmg heal less with FR. only to gain a small hps increase. Not worth it at all.

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    You will lose alot of Ragegain from crit and can use less SD and T&C or FR, you will take more dmg heal less with FR. only to gain a small hps increase. Not worth it at all.
    Seelean here,

    I Agee 100% DO NOT gem STM, only Crit/STM (if you are already hit capped fully reforged from hit), if not gem crit/hit best RPS > inc survivability > inc in DPS. This is a win win and why would anyone do anything else?

    I recommend having at least 600-615+ hps for regular content (filly raid buff) this should allow for over 50% Crit which is insane!!!

    I am going to start heroics this week as Oligarchy will finally be 12/12 after we kill Lei Shen tomorrow night.
    Heroic Bears do you recommend 700k+, 750k, or 800k+ for heroic content? On obviously the more Rage the more Sd/FR uptime we will have but what is a good base pool of health when starting heroics?

    For those bears in regular content I recommend agility/crit shoulder/leg enchants over STM/Dodge (I'm going to see if I can still get away with this I'm helix content next week :P)

    Seelean
    Troll Guardian 529ai
    US-Zul'Jin

  10. #590
    Quote Originally Posted by Seelean View Post
    Seelean here,

    I Agee 100% DO NOT gem STM, only Crit/STM (if you are already hit capped fully reforged from hit), if not gem crit/hit best RPS > inc survivability > inc in DPS. This is a win win and why would anyone do anything else?

    I recommend having at least 600-615+ hps for regular content (filly raid buff) this should allow for over 50% Crit which is insane!!!

    I am going to start heroics this week as Oligarchy will finally be 12/12 after we kill Lei Shen tomorrow night.
    Heroic Bears do you recommend 700k+, 750k, or 800k+ for heroic content? On obviously the more Rage the more Sd/FR uptime we will have but what is a good base pool of health when starting heroics?
    With respect to shifting towards stam due to the potential 4pc mentioned on the PTR, I'd agree that Guardians should not shift to stamina for that reason alone. If you need the EH, that's a different story and a much better reason to shift towards stamina. On the same note, I don't think RPS will be an issue once people have the next tier set... even with heroic raid gear from current content, we're swimming in rage for the most part. If people really want to shift towards more stamina for any reason (or mastery even), their rage generation will likely be good enough.

    Now, more directed at your question, Seelean. How much HP you want really depends on if you're 10 vs 25, your healers, and your strategies. I've personally erred on the side of stamina for 25man heroics because our healers aren't necessarily the strongest and because of how we execute certain mechanics/encounters (such as heroic Animus, our strat requires me to eat the Anima ring on occasion, and my HP is high enough that I don't need a cooldown to survive his melee attacks while debuffed). I'd say a starting point is if you've found yourself getting dangerously low on normal content, you might need more HP to live... won't know for certain until you start doing those heroics.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I'd say a starting point is if you've found yourself getting dangerously low on normal content, you might need more HP to live... won't know for certain until you start doing those heroics.
    This is pretty sound advice. Heroic isn't a massive step up from normals or anything (at least not the first couple encounters) so if you're not having troubles in normals I wouldn't expect any in Heroics, at least not until you get a couple bosses in.

    Always be ready to adjust if you need to though, of course. If you're running agi enchants it's not a terrible idea to have a couple stam enchants in your bags so you can apply them during raid if you decide you're getting your ass kicked (could also do the same with trinkets, although none of the EH trinkets are super compelling this tier so I probably wouldn't).
    Last edited by aggixx; 2013-06-16 at 05:58 PM.

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  12. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by Seelean View Post
    Heroic Bears do you recommend 700k+, 750k, or 800k+ for heroic content?
    Only 3/12 on Heroic killed so far here, but raid-buffed in bear form I have 646k health and I've had no problems with survivability.
    Blencathra <Hexx> - Guardian Druid - Chamber of Aspects

  13. #593
    High Overlord Motoma's Avatar
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    I have only used Stamina on gear for the whole of this tier, most fights on progress I had NV as well.

  14. #594
    Quote Originally Posted by Troyan View Post
    Is there a chart of DPS value for each stat as a bear?
    No, because that requires a sim to do properly, and I've only just started doing QA for SimC. That being said, it's pretty logical.

    Hit = Exp > Crit. The next two would be Haste and Agility, but you're never picking between the two so it doesn't really matter. They're both worse than Cri

    with the 4pc bones heal beeying 10% of health, i do see bears stamina stacking in 5.4
    You actually won't, if you've played on the PTR you know why.

    Heroic Bears do you recommend 700k+, 750k, or 800k+ for heroic content? On obviously the more Rage the more Sd/FR uptime we will have but what is a good base pool of health when starting heroics?
    The answer to this question is always "Start with RPS build, switch it up if you need to."

  15. #595
    since I dont have the time to go on the PTR right now.

    @arielle did you test the 4p yet? And if its good could it be worth using it with the FR glyph and the new lvl30 talent? I mean if we are able to reach the 79% crit we will not have any problems with rage to keep both up. And the extra heal from healers plus two selfheals sounds very nice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seelean View Post

    Heroic Bears do you recommend 700k+, 750k, or 800k+ for heroic content? On obviously the more Rage the more Sd/FR uptime we will have but what is a good base pool of health when starting heroics?

    we are 5/13 into heroics, and i have about 660k hp with an ilvl of 530. And its perfectly fine I even Tank tortos hc full time with two healers had some trouble first trys but np and its the worst boss for druids as far as know. IF you are LW just switch bracer enchants and leg enchants.

    But on most bosses you will only need to change haste>mastery to mastery>haste. While learning fights like horridon/jikun maybe even switch RoR. It CAN cause you to die if you are focussed on something else and didnt see the procc.
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-06-17 at 07:36 AM.

  16. #596
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    since I dont have the time to go on the PTR right now.

    @arielle did you test the 4p yet? And if its good could it be worth using it with the FR glyph and the new lvl30 talent? I mean if we are able to reach the 79% crit we will not have any problems with rage to keep both up. And the extra heal from healers plus two selfheals sounds very nice.




    we are 5/13 into heroics, and i have about 660k hp with an ilvl of 530. And its perfectly fine I even Tank tortos hc full time with two healers had some trouble first trys but np and its the worst boss for druids as far as know. IF you are LW just switch bracer enchants and leg enchants.

    But on most bosses you will only need to change haste>mastery to mastery>haste. While learning fights like horridon/jikun maybe even switch RoR. It CAN cause you to die if you are focussed on something else and didnt see the procc.
    Thanks to all my Bears responding to my question!!!

    Your health is right in line with mine (@529ai and I should get my legendary 600ai back b4. Tomorrows raid!!!!!!!). That being said I feel confident in my enchants/gems, as I don't seem to have a problem living in current Normal modes!

    With respect to our compo we are a 10man raiding guild and the heals are really really nice!!!! We 2 heal nearly all encounters and have a top 10 Resto Druid in the world (missed Thursday raid so pugged back 4 boss less lei Shen, and the pug group really wanted him lol! Was joking with him this morning b/c the 2of us ranked quite a bit and said we will get that kind of "we must have you in our guild" type treatment.

    Our 10man group is literally insane (we were a bit slow off the starting getting our core in place, healer changing to tank, Mage going to shaman (for more versatility, but less DPS). All in all Oligarchy on US-Zul'Jin is an amazing guild (we were Reign on US-Llane).

    Again to my bear family thanks for the heads up, we plan to down heroic Jin'Rokh and Ji-Kun this week than probably add Horridon & Iron Qon the following week!

    Best of luck to my Bears, push those meters man our class is sick and should be in mid 100ks for each encounter in ToT


    Seelean
    529ai Troll Guardian Druid
    US-Zul'Jin

  17. #597
    The Patient Navoan's Avatar
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    I have never had over 700k health during HC progression so far this tier. I've done both 10 and recently 25man Heroic and tbh found 25man easier. I mean sure for fights like Ji'kun you need to time CDs well to survive, but as long as you have them CDs you're not at risk of dying really. I don't use the tank meta or any Sta gems/enchants and use an Agi flask normally. I, for the most part, felt 25man was easier than 10 tbh, I barely felt I needed to use CDs to survive and even found myself pushing all my rage into Maul rather than survivability at times, strange because I thought it would have been the oposit but ah well.

    Either way, unless you have bad healers and generally aren't a good player (i.e. can move from fire and time CDs) you don't need anymore Sta than you get on your gear, unless you are very seriously unlucky with drops.

  18. #598
    @arielle did you test the 4p yet? And if its good could it be worth using it with the FR glyph and the new lvl30 talent?
    Yeah I've played with it. I know for a fact that the HPS gain from glyphing it is not worth what you lose, even without doing any math. Plus you also lose your ability to recover from basically anything. The problem with the glyphed version has always been the same: Relying on healers to keep you alive and/or recover from burst damage is bad. You should be able to do it yourself.

    It'd be good for a fight like Stone Guard, but that's it.

  19. #599
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    with the 4pc bones heal beeying 10% of health, i do see bears stamina stacking in 5.4
    I doubt that good bears will be stacking stamina because of the 4 piece. It's just like Death Knights' conversion. The HPS it gives is really strong. Noone takes that talent because that healing could be covered by the healers without trouble 99,99999% of all cases. It's not going to safe you, as pure HPS isn't a factor for tank-survival.

    EDIT: Average damage intake/healing output is only ever going to matter on fights with steady (no burst) high damage fights. Stone Guards is all that I can think off, right now.

  20. #600
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Yeah I've played with it. I know for a fact that the HPS gain from glyphing it is not worth what you lose, even without doing any math. Plus you also lose your ability to recover from basically anything. The problem with the glyphed version has always been the same: Relying on healers to keep you alive and/or recover from burst damage is bad. You should be able to do it yourself.

    It'd be good for a fight like Stone Guard, but that's it.
    Yeah ok was just wondering, and just read that the heal can stack so using low rage FRs to stack the heal might be better.

    Maybe on some fights the FR glyph might be usefull like you said fights like stoneguard with heavy dot dmg.

    Just came home and did some calculations

    Assuming 800k next tier:
    4P plus yseras = 18000hps(plus heal from FR)
    with FR glyph = 25200hps (plus 40% more heal from healers)

    So not worth it maybe not even on heavy dot fight cause youll have high vengeance and FR gets higher. Even only a small 200k heal from FR, you would need 8 seconds in theory to heal that up with the hots and the FR glyph.

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