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  1. #601
    I've got a question about T16 4pce. Does it require a certain amount of rage to be consumed for it to give the 10% heal over 8 sec, or can you use 5 rage and grab the 10% heal?

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Denal View Post
    I've got a question about T16 4pce. Does it require a certain amount of rage to be consumed for it to give the 10% heal over 8 sec, or can you use 5 rage and grab the 10% heal?
    For FR you have to use 60 Rage to get the 10% heal.

  3. #603
    Damn.... Was hopin to cheat it with a low rage FR

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    For FR you have to use 60 Rage to get the 10% heal.
    Seems rather silly, since quite a few FR's I use are not a full 60-rage FR (especially at higher Vengeance levels, it's not necessary). I can understand to some degree why Blizz wants a rage requirement, as to keep us from spamming FR on cooldown... perhaps a 30-40 rage requirement would seem more prudent. I fear potentially rage-capping just to ensure a 60-rage FR, especially when RoR procs. Once I get some of the graphical issues under control, I'll try some current content on the PTR and see how it turns out in practice.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Seems rather silly, since quite a few FR's I use are not a full 60-rage FR (especially at higher Vengeance levels, it's not necessary). I can understand to some degree why Blizz wants a rage requirement, as to keep us from spamming FR on cooldown... perhaps a 30-40 rage requirement would seem more prudent. I fear potentially rage-capping just to ensure a 60-rage FR, especially when RoR procs. Once I get some of the graphical issues under control, I'll try some current content on the PTR and see how it turns out in practice.
    You get a heal proportional to the rage you spend.
    so 30 rage gives 5%, 10 rage gives 1.67%, etc.

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    You get a heal proportional to the rage you spend.
    so 30 rage gives 5%, 10 rage gives 1.67%, etc.
    I can live with that, I suppose. Still working out the graphics issue that's crashing me, any word on the refresh mechanics of it? I.E will a lesser-rage FR heal overwrite a higher-rage FR, things like that.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I can live with that, I suppose. Still working out the graphics issue that's crashing me, any word on the refresh mechanics of it? I.E will a lesser-rage FR heal overwrite a higher-rage FR, things like that.
    It stacks like ignite would, so whatever leftover heal you have left will be carried over.

    So if you have 800k health, and it's currently healing 10k/s with 4seconds left, and you use SD:
    It'll add the 80k health you'd get from spending 60 rage to the 40k health it'll heal, and divide it over the next 8s, so you'd have a 15k/s heal for 8seconds.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    You get a heal proportional to the rage you spend.
    so 30 rage gives 5%, 10 rage gives 1.67%, etc.

    would be much better to make it every 60 rage spend gives you the hot imo, so it can proc of T&C too.

    Since still dont have the time to really test the 2/4piece. But from all I read so far even if some tell otherwise, it sounds so weak. The two piece gives you something for free after a 12second buff. The only good thing it will proc the 4piece. The 4piece is a good thing to heal up from normal dmg or dot dmg, but with SD and T&C we are designed not tot take meleedmg, so why a hot that is useless on big hits and heals the small portion of meleedmg we take which no one cares about. And even dot dmg, either we take the dot dmg which is so high that the heal will not be noticed, or the dot is applied with hits (like jikun) where we dont take the dot dmg at all. So you get a heal from an ability that lets you avoid dmg and from a heal that heals you alot doenst make sense.

    Would rather take something like pala gaining 5 hp every 30s. monk 2/4 piece very good designed aswell. Warrior and DK get stuff that fits perfectly for their design and mechanics.


    Hope they will change a few things hopefully making T&C effect the 4piece aswell. maybe changing the 2piece into a proc that when using SD you have a chance of 10% to gain a charge and not something like here we give you 100rage and spend it for you after you used an ability that lasts for 12seconds and has a 1 min cd

  9. #609
    Have you never been in a situation where you find yourself spamming FR to keep yourself alive until you can swap to SD because your healers have caught up? That's happened to me many times. That's where the 4pc is incredibly useful.

    Not to mention tank swaps.

    T&C doesn't proc often enough to completely get rid of melee damage. The bonus further increases our ability to stay at full HP to eat huge hits like Explosive Slam, Snapping Bite, Meg breath, etc. Gaining more Rage wouldn't solve anything, it would just increase the chance we'll be at 100 Rage with nothing to press because SD is down, and the next melee will be fully absorbed from T&C.

    Don't see why T&C would need to affect the 4pc. It's already incredibly strong as it is, plus we have control over whether to spike it higher when needed.

    In isolation the 2pc is kind of boring, but the fact that it procs the 4pc makes it a LOT more cool - giving us another way to spike the 4pc bonus on demand basically.

    Standard caveat about evaluating changes in isolation etc.

  10. #610
    Just saying it would be a bit better imo if the 4piece procced every 60rage spend. Including maul while T&C is active but not maul alone.

    Maybe its beacuse of our healer setup we raid with druid pala and disc. So I always have 3 hots while tanking plus the heal from smite. So when im taking melee dmg i feel like i dont need an extra hot. And when im not full before eating huge hits I use FR to and use FR a few seconds after the hit. Or use healthstone renewal or a bigger cooldown if im not full hp.
    And of course if have been in situations like you said, while tanking tortos. But for those parts i usually use incarnation and NV plus FR to heal myself.

    Dont get me wrong in numbers and in theory I can see the 4piece looking really strong, and noone really knows the new bosses. But a hot doenst really help you after big hits or if you are low on health. For example look at 4piece monk or 2piece warrior they get heals when they need them, something like while SD is active you heal yourself for 10% of the melee dmg if you change the warrior 2piece for druids.


    And just saw they nerfed the 4piece to 25% of our AP over 8 seconds. So you would need 320k AP to get the 10k HPS
    Last edited by Viromand; 2013-06-20 at 10:33 AM.

  11. #611
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    my guild just started HC ToT, yes we are late i know
    however iv read some bosses do deadly tank combo's such as Snapping Bite + Melee hit
    is there any guidlines on how much hp / itemlevel i need to take them like a man?
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    my guild just started HC ToT, yes we are late i know
    however iv read some bosses do deadly tank combo's such as Snapping Bite + Melee hit
    is there any guidlines on how much hp / itemlevel i need to take them like a man?
    Really dangerous are Tortos Horridon jikun and maybe meg. And Jinrokh can oneshot you to if you have alot of stacks and you are in the puddle.

    But I have around 650k hp, and for 10m that shoudl be enough.

    Horridon: high Triple puncture with dire call can easily kill you. So have a CD if both are accuring at the same time. On high stacks of TP try to time you T&C so the next melee attack after TP will get absorbed.

    Tortos: Really dangerous. Now the Snapping bite will not kill you if you are full hp. But I found it to be deadly if Snapping bite hits before the stomp that will most likely kill you or killed me a couple of times. Try to use FR to max you shield and use small cd for stomp and stack you shield thats what helped me, (getting the shield at the right time is a fucking pain in the ass imo especially for druids after the stomp).

    Jikun try to time it so you never have to take more than 2 stacks of talons rake. keep SD up to not get high dot stacks. (thats what will kill you. Talons rake with a high dot tick) Use Cooldown for the second stack.

    meg depends on strat but the fire breath can be very deadly.

  13. #613
    Our strat has me taking a 3rd Talon Rake from Jikun right before nest 4 pops which seems to smooth out the timing for the other tank. I pop BS on the 2nd TR and then SI on the 3rd. I wouldn't recommend going to 3 stacks every swap but it is doable given enough time for CDs to reset.

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    And just saw they nerfed the 4piece to 25% of our AP over 8 seconds. So you would need 320k AP to get the 10k HPS
    I wouldn't technically call it a nerf, just a change in calculation. Although, I do have mixed feelings about it.

    Pretty sure part of this change is Blizz saying they want it to scale to encounters, even down to the raid size. If things go as planned, if my memory serves me correctly, Vengeance will cap at 30% HP in 10mans and 50% in 25mans... ironically, this artificially caps the max power of 4pc based on raid size alone. I did some rough napkin math last night... and I believe I threw said napkin away... it's a napkin, what do you expect?? Anyways, if we assume Guardians will have 1mil HP and ignore base AP, the maximum heal a Guardian can produce in 10man is 75k over 8 seconds, while in 25man the max heal will be 125k over 8 seconds (old 4pc value of 10% max HP being 100k over 8 seconds). So technically, at max Vengeance, you could call this an increase in power on 25man while a decrease in power on 10man. Obviously, the inherent flaw is this assume being at max Vengeance at all times... which I don't see even reaching the cap comfortably as Guardian outside of a hybrid bear child of a Guardian and a Brewmaster solo-tanking.

    Until we get into PTR raid testing (and even that won't necessarily give us an accurate answer), we won't know how much Vengeance we can expect to reach on average. Be that as it may, considering this tier set will only last one raid, I don't think it's really necessary to have the heal scale with our AP versus our HP. About the only reason I can see this change even being worth it (and likely a big contributing factor to the change) is PvP, in order to keep it underpowered compared to PvP sets. Unbuffed on live servers, I'd be getting 10.5k over 8 seconds with no Vengeance versus 84.1k over 8 seconds using the 10% HP method... which really screams PvP adjustment.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  15. #615
    Its quite easy math.

    With 800k HP you would have ahd a base hps of 10k without stacking.

    With the change you would need 320k Ap to get the 10k hps base hps.

    Max cap with 800k life would be 240 AP so you would need additional 80k from gear to get the same amount.

    Now considering the dmg you take to get 240ap vengeance a 10k hps seems a bit weak. Yes of course we would ahve to see how much ap you could get in SoO. But the HP to AP change is a HUGE nerf.



    And this is the last tier of this expansion, and compared to the other last tier sets this one feels weak.

  16. #616
    It's just a change in functionality. Not fully tuned yet. Expect the AP% to go up.

  17. #617
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    •Soul of the Forest has been partially redesigned to make it more attractive to Balance, Guardian, and Restoration Druids.
    so its not 30% extra rage from mangles

    with a 5 base rage from mangle it will turns into 1.65 extra rage, instead of the 3 rage we get now.
    on a crit mangle it will give you 6.6 extra rage instead of the 3.

    with us bears having > 50% crit this is a buff

    not sure how it stacks on 4xT15 bonus

    ---

    •Dream of Cenarius has been completely redesigned to reduce complexity and increase usability, but maintain the spirit of the effects. Benefits now vary by specialization.

    •Guardian: Increases the amount healed by Healing Touch by 20%. Mangle (Bear) critical strikes have a 20% chance to make the next Healing Touch or Rebirth instant, free, and castable in all forms. Instant cast version of Healing Touch now benefits from Attack Power instead of Spell Power.

    this seems intresting and quite powerfull i think.
    depending on how long your next healing touch stays free, this mgiht add extra complexity in the form of an other buff to keep track off

    if the wording is correct then i gues it also buffs the healing done by NS + HT
    Last edited by Elunedra; 2013-06-21 at 11:56 AM.
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  18. #618
    As they are presented now, neither SotF nor DoC seem very appealing even with the "buffs."

    SotF adds more rage but many are already swimming in rage. Also I don't know if the extra rage which can be spent on Mauls will overcome the DPS of spamming mangle for 30 secs while Incarnation would be active especially when its synced perfectly with NV for 10% extra dmg.

    DoC adds another random heal... I'm not impressed. If you need extra healing then it might be appealing But NV and HotW both add a strong dmg increase that DoC doesn't. NV also provides smart healing for 30 secs every 90 secs on top of its 10% dmg which can be lined up perfectly with other CDs. The free Brez is moot for me as our 10man has two other people that can rez. Add in a loss of a DPS CD and I can't see why any bear in a 10man raid would use it.

    I was thinking this talent may be useful for Challenge modes but without a dmg component I'm not sure you would use it there either.
    Last edited by Kioga; 2013-06-21 at 01:20 PM.

  19. #619
    if the wording is correct then i gues it also buffs the healing done by NS + HT
    We cant use NS anymore as a Guardain dont forget that so if you are the only one with BR taking DoC seems mandatory.

    SotF: Didnt they change something that it affects all raged gained? Since most of our rage comes from the crit proc passive buffing mangle rage means nothing. The problem is that incarnation is to strong it gives you alot of rage and dps while the other ones on provide one.

    DoC: I guess they will change the scaling, right now its 186% SP so if they keep that making it 186% of AP it would be quite op. Whats bugging me is that all other speccs get a dmg buff when healing and the Guardian gets nothing, that the problem the other give DPs and heal, current DoC just heal, would love to see something like a small crit buff, maybe after using instant HT you gain 10% crit for 10sec.

  20. #620
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viromand View Post
    We cant use NS anymore as a Guardain dont forget that
    where does that come from, as the way i see it its stilll a talent we can all pick?
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

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