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  1. #441
    I saw that Elunedra had brought up the Dodge/stacking Mastery on hit tanking trinket. After messing around with it in 5mans, I'd say the trinket does have a use... just not likely in current content. If you find yourself in an encounter where you're basically non-stop AoE tanking a decently large amount of adds where their primary source of damage is melee, the trinket could get you to 75% DR from just armor alone for extended periods of time. Unfortunately, if you're single-target tanking, the trinket does not proc enough to matter, let alone get multiple stacks (since it's a 4% chance to proc on dodge). If the mastery proc had the proc rate like Talisman of Bloodlust (the agility/stacking haste on hit trinket), the trinket would definitely be much more useful as a pure melee mitigation trinket.

    And as most people have been saying, once you go expertise hard-cap as Guardian, you cannot go back. The reliability from all your rage-generating abilities hitting when you expect is a lifesaver as a rage tank (which is why prot warriors tend to do the same thing), not to mention it's pretty nice DPS.

    With respect to the legendary metas, I'd definitely have both sitting on stand-by as a Guardian druid. Unfortunately for me, our raid is cursed with respect to Vanq tokens (while some Conq/Prot token people already have 4pc off-spec, some Vanq users still don't have 4pc for primary spec), so I haven't been able to get a second helm using bonus rolls on Twin Consorts and Jin'rokh... but the second I do get a spare helm that can use the DPS meta, I'll still use it even on some 25man heroic fights (gets a little expensive if you feel like switching the meta non-stop for certain fights in the same helm). The main purpose of having the DPS meta is to push more DPS as a tank... sounds a little redundant to say, but with proper execution you can do massive damage even just using the tanking meta gem. Disclaimer: use of the DPS meta likely depends on your healers, since the proc on the tanking meta is pretty godly.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  2. #442
    The Patient Navoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    hmm you say i should enchant exp on gloves ? i am already over the soft cap
    As others said, going over the soft cap is not only acceptable, it's actually highly advised when you're around 505 iLev (so you have the stats to do it whilst keeping Crit up).

    ---

    About the legendary Meta gem. I'm raiding HC 10man (5/13 with 17% on Council HC), and I am simply awestruck by the amount of dmg the DPS Meta does, seriously.

    My logs for HC Council on Thursday put it overall at 13.2% of my overall DMG, though some attempts doing over 15% of my dmg(Random 2min attempt log). Now sure I lost 3% crit from my old meta but that's nothing at all compared to this beast. It scales very well with vengeance and procs literally on every attack (Every auto attack and every ability you use gives a stack, only one stack / Thrash/Swipe use). At 5 stacks it procs dmg.

    Two random WoLs attempts for comparison:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=8806&e=9210 14.1% of my dmg done.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9453&e=9856 13.5% of my dmg done.

    Lightning Strike (Meta):
    Average Hit: 186393.2
    Avaerage Crit: 343577.8

    Mangle:
    Average Hit: 100649.1
    Average Crit: 213071.1

    This is at 150-180k vengeance (Checked fraps for multiple attempts).
    Last edited by Navoan; 2013-04-27 at 09:58 AM.

  3. #443
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: use of the DPS meta likely depends on your healers, since the proc on the tanking meta is pretty godly.
    TBH if you put it like that.... For now, I will probably aim for the tanking meta (if I get something to put it in...). As healing is bit of a touch and go sometimes. Specially when DPS is .... and they require more healing attention then the tanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    With respect to the legendary metas, I'd definitely have both sitting on stand-by as a Guardian druid. Unfortunately for me, our raid is cursed with respect to Vanq tokens (while some Conq/Prot token people already have 4pc off-spec, some Vanq users still don't have 4pc for primary spec), so I haven't been able to get a second helm using bonus rolls on Twin Consorts and Jin'rokh... but the second I do get a spare helm that can use the DPS meta, I'll still use it even on some 25man heroic fights (gets a little expensive if you feel like switching the meta non-stop for certain fights in the same helm). The main purpose of having the DPS meta is to push more DPS as a tank... sounds a little redundant to say, but with proper execution you can do massive damage even just using the tanking meta gem. Disclaimer: use of the DPS meta likely depends on your healers, since the proc on the tanking meta is pretty godly.
    The content your tanking is the key thing here. You're doing 25man heroics. You have a legit reason for needing to use the tanking one. Where as people like me are doing 10man still trying to clear regular mode. My healers have no issue healing me so I go for DPS meta. Once I start doing heroics though I plan to use the tanking meta much more frequently.

    Also can I join your giuild ? Vanq tokens rarely drop in my raids hahaha. All I got is shammy tier. My 2 shammys and warrior both got MS and OS gloves and legs while rest of my raid is still trying to get their 2 piece ;/

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Aoshi View Post
    Meh, I just tried as Guardian for the first time in HoF.

    Still, I really have low DPS, and I don't know what I'm doing wrong...

    This is the WoL logs

    This run was more funrun.
    Can anyone help me please?

  6. #446
    Aoshi, you have a low count on Mangle. Use it every time it's off cooldown. Only use Thrash to refresh the dot when it has fallen off. Exception with this is if you gain loads of additional vengeance when it's still ticking. Avoid swipe on single target bosses.

    On garalon you never used frenzied regeneration, why? Might be fun to spam maul but it's better to help the healers by keeping yourself up.

  7. #447
    Hmmm Okay, but sometimes I have too much rage, seems I need to change mitigation build then?

  8. #448
    Don't forget to spend your rage on sd, fr or tc then

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Wasboz View Post
    Only use Thrash to refresh the dot when it has fallen off.
    You've got this a bit backwards. You definitely don't want to be prioritizing it over mangle but refreshing it before it has fallen off should be a very common procedure and not doing that will cost you a good chunk of DPS (Thrash does a lot of damage).

    When you're on the same target 100% of the time your Thrash uptime should be very close to 100% (the only notable exception being that you may choose to let it drop during Berserk and Incarnation depending on how badly you need the rage at the time).

    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    Single Target: Mangle > Lacerate > Thrash Maintenance > Faerie Fire. The idea here is that you always press Mangle whenever it is available. The rest of your rotation is devoted to generating as many Mangles as possible, while maintaining your two debuffs - Weakened Blows and Sunder Armor. Since FFF does more damage than a simple impact hit of Thrash, you should use FFF whenever Thrash still has at least 6 seconds left.

    AoE: Mangle > Thrash > Swipe. Pretty simple. The big difference here is that you always press Thrash whenever it is up and Mangle isn't. Since the reset on Thrash is calculated once per each target it hits, the more targets you are hitting the more likely you are to get a reset. Use Swipe to fill in the gaps.[/list]

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  10. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoshi View Post
    Can anyone help me please?
    I'm looking specifically at your blade lord attempt. 6 minute 14 sec fight.

    During that time you:

    1) Used barkskin once. This has a 1min coodown and you used it once during a 6 minute fight.

    2) Doesn't even looked like you used survival instincts once

    3) You used berserk once. This is a 3 minute CD and a 6 minute fight. Could of used it a 2nd time.

    4) I see no incarnation being used. Did you even spec into this talent ? It's kind of mandatory.

    5) Savage defense up time is rather low.

    6) Frenzied regen was not used no this fight, which probably isn't a bad thing, but adding onto the fact your SD uptime is so low it makes me wonder what you're doing with your rage. Either spending it all into Maul (bad idea) or just pooling rage for no reason.

    7) You're using swipe on a boss fight. There's no adds here there's no reason to use swipe single target.

    8) Mangle usage. On a six minute fight and a 6sec CD on mangle you could of in theory used it 60 times, not including free mangle procs. You used mangle 35 times. This leads me to believe you're sitting on your abilities and neglecting to use them off CD.

    9) I can't see your armory in guardian gear, but looking at WoL it's clear you're not at soft cap (7.50%) for expertise let alone the hard cap (15%). You might want to log out in your guardian gear and we can help ya there too.

  11. #451
    You've got this a bit backwards. You definitely don't want to be prioritizing it over mangle but refreshing it before it has fallen off should be a very common procedure and not doing that will cost you a good chunk of DPS (Thrash does a lot of damage).
    It actually doesn't.

    If you delay refreshing Thrash for one GCD and use either a Mangle or a Lacerate it's a DPS gain, since the damage from Mangle or Lacerate is greater than the one tick of Thrash you would end up losing. You don't want to delay it for any longer than a single GCD though.

    Tbh it's one of those advanced things that most people can pretty much ignore. For most people simply clipping Thrash will be the best thing to do.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by rated View Post
    9) I can't see your armory in guardian gear, but looking at WoL it's clear you're not at soft cap (7.50%) for expertise let alone the hard cap (15%). You might want to log out in your guardian gear and we can help ya there too.
    Right now I logged out with my guardian gear.
    Indeed, I have some problem with gemming/enchanting/reforging. Because I really don't know how to gem as a guardian.

  13. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aoshi View Post
    Right now I logged out with my guardian gear.
    Indeed, I have some problem with gemming/enchanting/reforging. Because I really don't know how to gem as a guardian.
    http://theincbear.com/ - An up to date guide that will help.

    Your weapon enchant is useless. Colossus sucks more than a cheap hooker. Use windsong (just as cheap as colossus) or dancing steel.

    I'd argue the stam enchants are not needed. If you're not tanking heroic raids going for more stam is usually not necessary. You get enough stam naturally through the gear you acquire. Change your shoulder, legs, & bracers to the agility versions. Put mastery on your gloves and crit on your cloak.

    Trinkets: get two stam trinkets and put them in your bag for a rainy day. The skies will be clear for the foreseeable future. I'd consider spending your next VP on the agility trinket to replace your stam one.

    Glyphs: Now I know why you are not healing yourself with frenzied regen. The glyph just...sucks. Frenzied regen is a great oh shit heal that scales with vengeance. The glyph takes that all away and turns it into a preemptive heal that relies 100% on your healers doing something for that short short duration of 6 seconds.

    Gem bonuses: People do this all the time. They gem for crappy socket bonuses. Your shoulders for example. 90 stam bonus sucks. Put a 320 crit gem there. Your belt, 120 expertise bonus sucks. Wouldnt 3 crit gems look more sexy ?

    Once you're gems and enchants are good try out http://www.curse.com/search?type=add...ch=ReforgeLite and reforge the rest to the proper hit/expertise caps.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    It actually doesn't.

    If you delay refreshing Thrash for one GCD and use either a Mangle or a Lacerate it's a DPS gain, since the damage from Mangle or Lacerate is greater than the one tick of Thrash you would end up losing. You don't want to delay it for any longer than a single GCD though.

    Tbh it's one of those advanced things that most people can pretty much ignore. For most people simply clipping Thrash will be the best thing to do.
    I meant waiting to refresh until it falls off all the time, Faerie Fire doesn't do so much damage that it's worth sacrificing Thrash uptime for. Good to know though.

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  15. #455
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    so about stat priorities
    how good is expertiese after the softcap?
    is it like crit > exp > haste > agi
    or like crit > haste > exp > agi

    reason for asking is, i got an exp / crit item and i wonder if i shuold reforge the exp to haste or not
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  16. #456
    softcap
    PSA: Please stop using this word when talking about Hit or Expertise.

    Expertise has exactly the same value after 7.5% as it did before.

  17. #457
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    So i was wondering for my off spec is http://www.wowhead.com/item=95862/darkwood-spiritstaff better then Tsu-Long normal double upgraded? I was thinking because the hige ammout of crit i'll gain?
    Always choose a lazy person to do the difficult job!
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  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Etapicx View Post
    So i was wondering for my off spec is http://www.wowhead.com/item=95862/darkwood-spiritstaff better then Tsu-Long normal double upgraded? I was thinking because the hige ammout of crit i'll gain?
    They're actually pretty much the same. Expertise is just Crit or Haste that you don't have to reforge. The LFR staff's extra socket make it a minuscule amount better for RPS, but there's no real difference.

  19. #459
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Does the buff which you get from guardian 2-set has any kind of buff name what to track? As wowhead.com didn't give me any info on Tunic of the Haunted Forest, other then it being a part of a mog set...

    Also is there a way to have droodfocus show you how much vengeance you have(like 100k etc) (not just how much vengeance you have left)? Or is there another thing that can do it for you? As mouseovering your buffs in middle of combat is bit of a meh thing...
    Mari officer/RL/OT of Punished <- RECRUITING for WoD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    The curse of the Bear, the only tank whose active mitigation not only has RNG included, but only consists of RNG.


  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonnillon View Post
    Does the buff which you get from guardian 2-set has any kind of buff name what to track? As wowhead.com didn't give me any info on Tunic of the Haunted Forest, other then it being a part of a mog set...
    The buff you're looking for is Improved Regeneration. I cannot comment on the rest of your post since I don't use the add-on you mentioned, but there are add-ons that specifically track Vengeance, or you can tailor something like WeakAuras to do it.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

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