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  1. #1221
    So I was looking at Paragon's logs just now, and I saw that Sejta was using Heart of the Wild on any boss that doesn't have tanks doing something whenever they aren't tanking the boss, or a long opening phase (e.g. Malkorok, Sha of Pride) and spamming Wrath. Is this only because he uses the Int % Damage trinket? And if so, is it still only worth it with a good caster weapon? Was just wondering cause I've been trying to push as much dps as I can with my druid, even though it's an alt and for some reason I really dislike Nature's Vigil after the change to be a 1.5min cd

  2. #1222
    HotW is the best DPS talent in that tier if you can make use of it. As for the Int Amp trinket - that sounds like a really bad idea, although I guess it's possible he just doesn't have a Haromm's yet.

    Wrath Spam is good no matter what pretty much. Even a caster weapon from the previous tier is still better than a heroic Agi weapon from this tier for caster purposes.

  3. #1223
    @ Artaius:

    I doubt the trinket is the reason. Most likely survival isn't an issues anymore so he can focus more on dps which is why you also see him using the dps meta. Both the Int% and Thok's Tail tip trinkets simed well for bear dps. Nowhere near Harrom's mind you, but we do have 2 trink slots to fill.

  4. #1224
    hm... interesting shing

  5. #1225
    May be wrong, but i think setja has done a lot of weird things on his armory to inspire people into being stupid.

  6. #1226
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    May be wrong, but i think setja has done a lot of weird things on his armory to inspire people into being stupid.
    I know I would if given the opportunity! The main message should be that one should not be afraid to try things that are not considered mainstream or experiment beyond cookie-cutter ways of doing things... although the well-establish method of doing things should be sufficient for the not-so-bold. Also, take someone's armory with a grain of salt.

    Anyways, caster weapon + HotW is pretty strong, especially in low Vengeance scenarios or high periods of inactive tanking. NV likely wins out at high Vengeance scenarios. Self-buffed I get around 250k DPS for the duration of HotW with a 574 caster weapon, so it's definitely nothing to sneeze at. I actually get around the same mileage going kitty with HotW, as well.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  7. #1227
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I know I would if given the opportunity! The main message should be that one should not be afraid to try things that are not considered mainstream or experiment beyond cookie-cutter ways of doing things... although the well-establish method of doing things should be sufficient for the not-so-bold. Also, take someone's armory with a grain of salt.
    I honestly always thought tanks were not so black-and-white like dps. A dps has a straight stat priority that will simply raise his dps, a tank is more suceptible to perception. For exemple, if you go all-out mastery, you can probably reach levels where it's almost equal to a permanent barkskin or better, thats not exactly bad.

  8. #1228
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    I honestly always thought tanks were not so black-and-white like dps. A dps has a straight stat priority that will simply raise his dps, a tank is more suceptible to perception. For exemple, if you go all-out mastery, you can probably reach levels where it's almost equal to a permanent barkskin or better, thats not exactly bad.
    Just because the goal is more complex to quantify than "make this number as big as possible" doesn't mean one choice cannot be more or less optimal than other choices. Just like a DPS player in one specific situation playing one specific way has a theoretically superior option in almost everything, so does a tank, it's just much more difficult to evaluate which is the good option and which is the bad. No matter what you're trying to optimize, there will always be a correct choice in terms of "what gives my raid the best chance of succeeding", although of course some of those choices can be so negligible you're better served focusing on something else than to try to optimize that point specifically.

    That's where subjectivity comes into play: trying to determine what is the best choice for you for your specific situation; but that's a very different thing than saying that subjectivity is present because there are multiple "optimal" choices (not that I think you're saying that).

    Maybe if someone is really really awful at spending your rage, then for that specific case a mastery build for general use could be the best option to ensure survival, but then you're optimizing around poor play instead of just trying to play better and that's why no one would suggest such a thing.
    Last edited by aggixx; 2014-02-24 at 09:08 PM.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  9. #1229
    Is someone able to tell me the Crit rating needed for Crit cap? I can't seem to find the actual rating anywhere, all I hear is percentages. Also I looked at Sejta's armory and he had Bindings and Tail Tip equipped, is that a real thing Bears can do or was he likely just messing around with double amp?
    Last edited by Glurp; 2014-03-02 at 07:59 AM.

  10. #1230
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Is someone able to tell me the Crit rating needed for Crit cap? I can't seem to find the actual rating anywhere, all I hear is percentages. Also I looked at Sejta's armory and he had Bindings and Tail Tip equipped, is that a real thing Bears can do or was he likely just messing around with double amp?
    He's messing around. He's probably trying to get as much crit damage as he can, but they are pretty shitty survival trinkets. Haromm's trinket is definitely a better dps trinket and i dont think amp trinkets stack either... i could be wrong. 9% more crit damage is quite a bit though since youre going to end up with 80% critchance.

    As far as crit rating go, it varies depending if you have hotw or not, but it's around 26k crit rating in bear form (17500 without bear form)

  11. #1231

  12. #1232
    Quote Originally Posted by Glurp View Post
    Is someone able to tell me the Crit rating needed for Crit cap? I can't seem to find the actual rating anywhere, all I hear is percentages. Also I looked at Sejta's armory and he had Bindings and Tail Tip equipped, is that a real thing Bears can do or was he likely just messing around with double amp?
    Crit is one of those stats where the actual rating doesn't matter as long as you meet the percentage. The reason being, even if you go over soft cap of 79%, none of it is wasted. Depending on your setup (10m) you may even wish to stack more crit for increased dmg vs switching to haste for +Rps.

  13. #1233
    Maybe you caught the implication, but the reason there's not an exact rating amount is because it's different depending on how much crit you're receiving from agility.

    Feral Druid Maintainer of SimC // Moderator at Fluid Druid forums
    Pawkets' Armory
    // Pawkets' Pro Raiders // <Forgotten Aspects>

  14. #1234
    So is guardian AM just keeping up savage defense and use FR as needed?

    Seems simple, but is it effective? Does this make them inferior in tanking to other classes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  15. #1235
    Seems simple, but is it effective? Does this make them inferior in tanking to other classes?
    Yes it is effective. No it is not inferior.

  16. #1236
    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    So is guardian AM just keeping up savage defense and use FR as needed?

    Seems simple, but is it effective? Does this make them inferior in tanking to other classes?
    The way i like to see guardians, is that you reduce a LOT of damage passively, but you have to activate your shield block, which is actually dodge so its better.

    And you have tons of hp so healing yourself back up is pretty good.

    At any rate, bears can tank everythijng in siege quite easily, nothing feels dangerous there.

  17. #1237
    Are Druid tanks at a strong point? Or are they pretty weak right now?

  18. #1238
    Quote Originally Posted by xZora View Post
    Are Druid tanks at a strong point? Or are they pretty weak right now?
    Druid tanks are incredibly strong in 10m regular content. For example, at item level 560, you can tank Garrosh from start to finish with zero outside heals. I actually specced out of DoC so that I could NV to help the raid with Whirling Corruptions. I'm just literally never in any danger during the fight. My Paladin seems similarly OP in 10m reg content, but my other three tanks feel much squishier.

    I think I've seen Arielle mention that we struggle a bit in heroic modes, particularly 25m heroic, FWIW.

  19. #1239
    Quote Originally Posted by YeahNo View Post
    Druid tanks are incredibly strong in 10m regular content. For example, at item level 560, you can tank Garrosh from start to finish with zero outside heals. I actually specced out of DoC so that I could NV to help the raid with Whirling Corruptions. I'm just literally never in any danger during the fight. My Paladin seems similarly OP in 10m reg content, but my other three tanks feel much squishier.

    I think I've seen Arielle mention that we struggle a bit in heroic modes, particularly 25m heroic, FWIW.
    That's exactly what I was looking for. A friend and I just got back into it for this tier, looking to get some friends together and try and get as much done as we can before WoD. The speculation was him playing Prot Pally and me on Guardian.. so you fit that question perfectly haha.

  20. #1240
    Quote Originally Posted by xZora View Post
    That's exactly what I was looking for. A friend and I just got back into it for this tier, looking to get some friends together and try and get as much done as we can before WoD. The speculation was him playing Prot Pally and me on Guardian.. so you fit that question perfectly haha.
    Rereading my response, I think I got a bit hyperbolic about my other tank classes. When I say they feel squisher, I should be clear: I'm not getting wrecked or anything, I just happen to need healers to top me off every once in a while.

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