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  1. #1261
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    Dropped both long ago, have not missed either of them.

  2. #1262
    As far i know, guardians gem pure crit because it yields most dps, right? Where am I able to actually see this, is it possible in Catus? Or is just based on peoples own experience? Because if im using Catus, the newest version as well, it tells me i get more dps out of going 79% crit and from then on haste.

  3. #1263
    Bloodsail Admiral Khatix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wazzak View Post
    As far i know, guardians gem pure crit because it yields most dps, right? Where am I able to actually see this, is it possible in Catus? Or is just based on peoples own experience? Because if im using Catus, the newest version as well, it tells me i get more dps out of going 79% crit and from then on haste.
    That is because once you hit 79% crit your auto attacks are crit capped(vs Raid Boss) meaning they will either crit or glance, at that point the value of crit drops because AA crits is what gives us a majority of our rage. From that point haste goes up in value because faster AA means more rage, more TnC procs, and more dps.

  4. #1264
    Quote Originally Posted by wazzak View Post
    As far i know, guardians gem pure crit because it yields most dps, right? Where am I able to actually see this, is it possible in Catus? Or is just based on peoples own experience? Because if im using Catus, the newest version as well, it tells me i get more dps out of going 79% crit and from then on haste.
    Catus is wrong then, crit is ALWAYS more dps, because your special attacks can't glance, so stack up to 103% crit (bosses remove 3% crit) for maximal dps, then go haste. Haste is better for survival than crit beyond 79% crit however, because of what bloodrayne said.

  5. #1265
    Quote Originally Posted by wazzak View Post
    As far i know, guardians gem pure crit because it yields most dps, right? Where am I able to actually see this, is it possible in Catus? Or is just based on peoples own experience? Because if im using Catus, the newest version as well, it tells me i get more dps out of going 79% crit and from then on haste.
    It defaults to that because that's pretty much what I told Edgy to do for RPS.

    SimC had a bug for a very long time that caused Autos to not be mitigated by armor. This (incorrectly) inflated the value of Haste for DPS. Since that bug has been fixed Crit correctly now provides the most DPS gain to cap when you use SimC.

  6. #1266
    Thanks for your input. I should probably have elaborated a little more on my dilemma. I know the 79% is the crit cap for auto attack vs. bosses, and i know that haste is for RPS and by that benefits survival quite a bit. I think what i am i looking for, is wether the full crit build is just more overall dps, as auto attack is "only" ~20% of our overall damage, meanwhile, crit then benefits the remaining ~80%. Meanwhile, compared to 79% crit/haste build to grant more auto attacks, which will always be either crit or glancing, the haste simply doesnt benefit lacerate, mangle, trash, etc, enough to yield out more dps in the end?
    Last edited by wazzak; 2014-06-19 at 09:42 PM.

  7. #1267
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    You answered your own question, haste only affects auto attacks thus crit is superior.

  8. #1268
    Yea.. i dont think the ratings are equal, but since autoattacks are 20% of your damage, youd need 5% haste to match 1% crit more or less.. crit all the way to 103% is the best dps option.

  9. #1269
    I mean, sure Haste will also have a minor increase on your number of cloak procs. But compared to the additional multipliers from Haromm's and TTT it's very paltry.

  10. #1270
    If you don't care about the RPS gain from Haste post 79% Crit then just stack Crit. While I'm hoping the latest alpha notes are wrong it appears that Guardian are losing Leader of the Pack, and thus that delicious 5% passive Crit, making Crit even more desirable than currently.

  11. #1271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trubo View Post
    If you don't care about the RPS gain from Haste post 79% Crit then just stack Crit. While I'm hoping the latest alpha notes are wrong it appears that Guardian are losing Leader of the Pack, and thus that delicious 5% passive Crit, making Crit even more desirable than currently.
    You'll still have it in a raid... Crit is not very good on the alpha compared to what it is now.

  12. #1272
    Quote Originally Posted by Motoma View Post
    You'll still have it in a raid... Crit is not very good on the alpha compared to what it is now.
    Celestalon said crit is getting a change. Hopefully maybe another role than just rage generation, i dont think its necessary to have two stats do that.

  13. #1273
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    Celestalon said crit is getting a change. Hopefully maybe another role than just rage generation, i dont think its necessary to have two stats do that.
    It's fine for more than 1 stat to generate resources, it's just that they have to be balanced against each other in other ways. That's not currently true in Warlords.

  14. #1274
    It is fine, but I just feel like it's a weak design. It's more interesting for stats to do different things to keep them diversified.

  15. #1275
    Quote Originally Posted by Motoma View Post
    You'll still have it in a raid... Crit is not very good on the alpha compared to what it is now.
    Stop making sense, it makes me feel dumb.

  16. #1276
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    It is fine, but I just feel like it's a weak design. It's more interesting for stats to do different things to keep them diversified.
    Then haste should probably stop providing physical DR through T&C, and stop giving multistrike more chances to proc. Haste already does pretty much everything, just weaker than other stats.* The exception being rage where it's competitor stat (crit) just sucks.

    That said, I don't really want rage on crits to be high enough for crit to be competitive just from that, because that would just make us heavily crit dependent if we actually went for it (and we wouldn't be able to fix it by having stupid high crit like we do now). I'd much prefer crit either having a second effect (it can be random, since that's crit's thing), or having crit increase rage in a little more reliable way.

    *which frankly makes haste a good showcase for why versatility isn't well thought-out for tanks, since haste is pretty much "better versatility" for us, though actually almost every stat we have does that .

  17. #1277
    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    Then haste should probably stop providing physical DR through T&C, and stop giving multistrike more chances to proc. Haste already does pretty much everything, just weaker than other stats.* The exception being rage where it's competitor stat (crit) just sucks.

    That said, I don't really want rage on crits to be high enough for crit to be competitive just from that, because that would just make us heavily crit dependent if we actually went for it (and we wouldn't be able to fix it by having stupid high crit like we do now). I'd much prefer crit either having a second effect (it can be random, since that's crit's thing), or having crit increase rage in a little more reliable way.

    *which frankly makes haste a good showcase for why versatility isn't well thought-out for tanks, since haste is pretty much "better versatility" for us, though actually almost every stat we have does that .
    If they can make Haste not shitty for Warriors I'll fully agree with this sentiment. As it is some classes are better balanced around Haste than others.

  18. #1278
    If Crit also affected Ursa Major (after fixing its contribution to Rage gen) that would be pretty cool. So a crit MS would grant double the bonus HP.

    It could also affect Mastery in theory.

  19. #1279
    Quote Originally Posted by Arielle View Post
    If Crit also affected Ursa Major (after fixing its contribution to Rage gen) that would be pretty cool. So a crit MS would grant double the bonus HP.

    It could also affect Mastery in theory.
    Agreed that it would be nice if it affected MS, but that would force a crit>ms combo... unless crit becomes an enhancement stat such as:

    Crit MS gives double hp
    your crit % is added to your mastery bubble. such as, a 1000 mastery bubble with 25% crit = 1250 absorb.
    crits give more rage

    And whatever with versatility. That's kinda what i thought amplfiication should've been... Would be a nice implementation, although i wouldn't want to see bears becoming bis stat + crit to emphasize our main strength, which is what i was worried about amplification.

  20. #1280
    Question, MS = ? Been paying too much attention to Warrior patch notes and thinking you're talking about Mortal Strike.

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