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  1. #1321
    Ursoc Major HP% Bonus caps at 30%. you cannot get 100% like the above posters is saying.

    With no haste (1.5sec GCD), you can get 16.667~ abilities in. Assuming 1 of those is a thrash.. and UM stacking 2% (to 30% cap) every attack.. you would need 15 multistrikes out of 15.66667~ possible attacks.

    edit - UM is 2% gain per Multistrike of Lacerate/Mangle, or Lacerate tick. This lasts for 25 seconds and caps at 30%. and rolls like mage ignite/lock and load explosive shot.

    With 25% haste (20%+5% raidbuff), dropping your GCD to 1.25 (My math may not be right on the haste->GCD stuff.. but bear with me)
    You would get 20 attacks, 1 of which is thrash.. Leaving 19. 15 / 19 = requires 78% multistrike to maintain it at cap.
    There is so much wrong here.....

    1) UM has no cap.
    2) You neglected to count each individual MS (MS is rolled twice for your MS %)
    3) You ignored Lacerate ticks for some unknown reason, probably because you misread the ability and assumed it was Lacerate strikes, not ticks
    4) You also ignored autos

  2. #1322
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    Only sources of multistrike is the multistrike raidbuff which is 5%, windwalker monks give it.. i dont know who else does. Haromm's trinket gives multistrike too. with simply both of those, i seemed to maintain 15%~ bonus hp, which is a lot so i dont know what you are saying by it's not a lot, multistrike is stronger than stam ever was.

    As far as how much it can stack.. the maximum amount can be pretty high, considering all things it can proc from. At 100% multistrike, you can definitely reach 100% bonus hp from lacerate ticks only, all mangles and autoattacks will give you even more, probably reaching in the 130%~ range... and haste lowers the gcd and increase your attack speed, so it can go even higher.

    You'll want to have your hands on multistrike gear/enchants whenever you can use more hp during a fight.
    If you are able to maintain the buff 100% and get high stacks then that changes things. But it's all chance, though, just like it is with the rest of bear play. We are probably the most squishy tanking class, seeing as how spiky the damage we take can be, contrary to other tanking classes who just takes less damage across the table. It all depends on how (un)lucky we are with dodging streaks. We also generally have less health than the other tanking classes. Now we are able to get more, though it's a temporary buff that can fall off if you don't have luck on your side.

    That being said, I don't have any experience with it, so I'm not going to judge it before I have, but to me, depending on how it works, it seems unreliable and no that good (we haven't even valued stamina stamina since, when, WotLK?).


    On another note, what do you guys mean with that 'it rolls like Ignite'? I know the mage spell, but I haven't played one for some time.

  3. #1323
    Yeah, if anyone wants a lazy benchmark for Multistrike on single target, you'd expect about 1.65% UM per 1% MS with no haste on gear. Haste boosts that, but not terribly much; 50% haste would bring that guess up to about 2%. Multi-dotting or a good berserk obviously help, whereas mass AoE obviously makes MS utter trash. Last, though not relevant right now, is pulverize is going to hurt MS, dropping it down to about 1.4% UM per 1% MS.

    MS certainly looks WAY better than stamina at 90, though that's not surprising since all secondaries are kind of ridiculous atm. At 100 it's a bit of a different story. MS is a little better than stamina without pulverize, whereas with pulverize they're about the same health per point. Of course, stamina's health doesn't come with a ~45s ramp-up time, doesn't drop if you can't hit the boss for a phase, and doesn't come with the disclaimer "this is an average expected health, results could be higher or lower based on luck". You also still get 1.5 stamina per 1 secondary on trinkets. Stamina will still be the go-to stat if you absolutely need health, MS will just be an option to get extra health on non-trinkets, and to get health without sacrificing DPS.

    So yeah, Haromm's is your health trinket right now if you want one, and MS>>Stamina. At 100, things change, because secondaries aren't quite as insane.

    As a complete aside, I just noticed Drums of Rage don't shift me out of bear on the beta . That would have been really nice for shamans/spoils where I was either shifing or passing the drums to someone else to get us lust, but better late than never I guess.

    Also:

    And it can actually cast that fast, it doesn't have a forced 1s GCD.
    That's more fun to spam that it should be .

    We also generally have less health than the other tanking classes.
    We have the highest stamina modifier, so we have generally more health than other tanking classes. The only thing that will beat a low MS bear is a DK, but an MS geared bear will beat anything.

    On another note, what do you guys mean with that 'it rolls like Ignite'?
    Everytime it procs, the new amount is calculated as:

    New UM = 2% + Current UM % * (Time Remaining/25s)

    E.g. if we have 20% UM and 23s remaining when we get a proc, it'll change to 20.4% (2 + 20 * (23/25)). The buff will pretty much always be up, that's not a concern. What you might see, though, is an expected 25% health buff bouncing up and down between about 20% and 30%.
    Last edited by Braindwen; 2014-10-19 at 12:00 PM.

  4. #1324
    Quote Originally Posted by Braindwen View Post
    We have the highest stamina modifier, so we have generally more health than other tanking classes. The only thing that will beat a low MS bear is a DK, but an MS geared bear will beat anything.
    Not sure where you get this from, but if MS is as bad as you say, then why would you gear toward it?

    Everytime it procs, the new amount is calculated as:

    New UM = 2% + Current UM % * (Time Remaining/25s)

    E.g. if we have 20% UM and 23s remaining when we get a proc, it'll change to 20.4% (2 + 20 * (23/25)). The buff will pretty much always be up, that's not a concern. What you might see, though, is an expected 25% health buff bouncing up and down between about 20% and 30%.
    Ah, that explains a bit. Thanks.
    Last edited by Arctagon; 2014-10-19 at 06:34 PM.

  5. #1325
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctagon View Post
    Not sure where you get this from, but if MS is as bad as you say, then why would you gear toward it?.
    MS isn't bad, it's a completly viable way to gear if you need the HP for the effective health. If you don't however, you're better off getting other stats. There is always some virtue in having more hp however.

  6. #1326
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreyen View Post
    MS isn't bad, it's a completly viable way to gear if you need the HP for the effective health. If you don't however, you're better off getting other stats. There is always some virtue in having more hp however.
    The real question is whether the EH it provides is needed at all. Considering how volatile the actual HP gains can be factoring in various encounter mechanics and it's natural randomness, I think it's safer to think of it as icing on the cake rather than the main tool for survival unless you purposefully stack it. Don't think there will be anyone complaining about someone having extra HP, and it will provide some EH buffer... but it's not as reliable as stamina would be when picking any moment in any given encounter.

    Also, Guardians need to be viable assuming the bare minimum multistrike present on gear. If we weren't, that'd be a pretty big oversight in our survival.

    As a side note, I don't know if Alliance has something similar, but Horde in Frostfire Ridge can get a zone buff that occasionally provides 100% Multistrike for a short duration. It's crazy fun until the buff wears off, and your next UM proc completely tanks your HP.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2014-10-20 at 10:52 AM.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

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