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  1. #1

    Dragonwrath not worth it anymore?

    According to Icy-Veins (They are pretty well known for having on-par top dps specs) Dragonwrath is no longer BiS. Infact, its the 8th one down.

    Is this really true? Normally I trust IV with everything, but this just seems...odd. I know the increased stats are amazing, but did the patch talents really screw DW over that much? Its still listed as BiS for other classes.

    Edit: Forgot link >.<

    http://www.icy-veins.com/shadow-prie...t-best-in-slot
    Last edited by Demindar; 2012-08-31 at 06:47 AM.

  2. #2
    that weapon list is going by ilvl not BIS

  3. #3
    Dragonwrath is still BiS

    The 2.15. Staff lists only sorts by pure SP and Intellect gain, henc DW being on rank 8. Damagewise DW still outweighs all other staffs due to the raw damage due to duplicating your spell. It's even mentioned in the first part of the review

    Best in Slot Item:
    Weapon* Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest Legendary quest line in Firelands

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Thalos-I View Post
    Dragonwrath is still BiS

    The 2.15. Staff lists only sorts by pure SP and Intellect gain, henc DW being on rank 8. Damagewise DW still outweighs all other staffs due to the raw damage due to duplicating your spell. It's even mentioned in the first part of the review

    Best in Slot Item:
    Weapon* Dragonwrath, Tarecgosa's Rest Legendary quest line in Firelands
    Ah i didnt even see that. Thats what I get for it being 3AM in the morning. Thanks

  5. #5
    The problem with Dragonwrath is (and always was) that it recasts the base version spell instead of copying its effects. In the past that meant the copy of MB and MS was generally cast with no extra damage from orbs, since those were already consumed by the spell triggering it. Now it means copies of MS enhanced by progs consume dots. (I don't know if we get extra orbs from MB copies though.)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    I don't know if we get extra orbs from MB copies though.
    I get two orbs from a single mb sometimes, so it seems like it would :P

  7. #7
    Dragonwrath, when spec'd FDCL, can proc on Mind Spike, and clear DoTs.

    GLHF

  8. #8
    Yes. Thats what I thought as well. I sometimes got to 3 orbs faster than I should but I was not sure where they came from.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by derevka View Post
    Dragonwrath, when spec'd FDCL, can proc on Mind Spike, and clear DoTs.

    GLHF
    While true, the percent chance of this happening is near 1%. Nevermind that odds are when this happens, your DoTs will have already each ticked a few times/be close to falling off anyway. If you want to play it safe, I'd just not use FDCL procs on a target that has DP ticking. Other than that, it's virtually a non-issue.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by derevka View Post
    Dragonwrath, when spec'd FDCL, can proc on Mind Spike, and clear DoTs.

    GLHF
    If you get lucky and get 2 procs before the first expires you can safely use FDCL as it'll just consume both procs, giving you 2 spikes in 1 GCD. Other than that, while it's annoying it's also rare and doesn't drastically affect DPS.

    Dragonwrath does also proc the extra orb on second MB casts so it's faster orb generation.

  11. #11
    The Patient sasslefrassed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qactuar View Post
    While true, the percent chance of this happening is near 1%. Nevermind that odds are when this happens, your DoTs will have already each ticked a few times/be close to falling off anyway. If you want to play it safe, I'd just not use FDCL procs on a target that has DP ticking. Other than that, it's virtually a non-issue.
    Actually, I found this happening quite a lot, when you think about how often FDCL procs. In one LFR, it happened to me three times.


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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by sasslefrassed View Post
    Actually, I found this happening quite a lot, when you think about how often FDCL procs. In one LFR, it happened to me three times.
    It seemed to be happening quite a bit for me as well. I swapped to Mindbender until I drop the staff in MoP. They're not too far off in damage that these last few weeks of DS, with the crazy stupid high nerf, will make a difference for my raid group.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by qactuar View Post
    While true, the percent chance of this happening is near 1%. Nevermind that odds are when this happens, your DoTs will have already each ticked a few times/be close to falling off anyway. If you want to play it safe, I'd just not use FDCL procs on a target that has DP ticking. Other than that, it's virtually a non-issue.
    It has to be higher than 1%.
    Happens about every 120 seconds for me. I've used mindbender instead of FDCL for now.

  14. #14
    Yes, no FDCL for now for me as well. It's not worth the hassle.

  15. #15
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UunaPriest View Post
    It has to be higher than 1%.
    Happens about every 120 seconds for me. I've used mindbender instead of FDCL for now.
    It's about 3 or 4% chance of happening, there's also no correlation between how long the dot has been on the target and how likely it is to proc and therefore wipe dots (as the guy you responded to said) - clearing just one Devouring Plague is reason enough to not use it imo. Much too high for my liking, more reasons for shadowy octopussiesss
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-08-31 at 08:00 PM.
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  16. #16
    as posted in another thread, if you fear clearing a dp then simply delay your ms. Surge of Darkess lasts long enough :P
    Last edited by turtlefreak; 2012-08-31 at 08:15 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by turtlefreak View Post
    as posted in another thread, if you fear clearing a dp then simply delay your ms. Surge of Darkess lasts long enough :P
    Isn't that a waste of a proc devaluing the talent in this situation? I think what you posted in the other thread was to wait for two procs, cast one MS, if DWTR procs on the MS then it consumes the second charge? I may have misread the post, but that's a lost MS then.

    Mindbender and FDCL are already close without any other funny business, so it's probably a wash to use it until 86.

  18. #18
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakamae View Post
    Isn't that a waste of a proc devaluing the talent in this situation? I think what you posted in the other thread was to wait for two procs, cast one MS, if DWTR procs on the MS then it consumes the second charge? I may have misread the post, but that's a lost MS then.

    Mindbender and FDCL are already close without any other funny business, so it's probably a wash to use it until 86.
    It's not a waste to delay the use of the proc until DP has run off if you're scared it'll clear DP. If it procs to 2nd stack, you can use it safely without worry of clearing DoTs, and if not, wait till DP is off then use it.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    It's not a waste to delay the use of the proc until DP has run off if you're scared it'll clear DP. If it procs to 2nd stack, you can use it safely without worry of clearing DoTs, and if not, wait till DP is off then use it.
    My point was that DWTR consuming a charge was wasting an otherwise usable MS taking you from 2 stacks to zero by casting a single MS. You can only cast one because it consumed both charges in that situation. As I said, I may have been misunderstanding turtle's other post and need to find it again.

    It's not just the fear of clearing DP, but all dots. You'd have to wait and watch dot timers to cast your MS just before they needed to be refreshed in the off chance the dots did get wiped. Waste of GCDs is ultimately the issue.

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakamae View Post
    My point was that DWTR consuming a charge was wasting an otherwise usable MS taking you from 2 stacks to zero by casting a single MS. You can only cast one because it consumed both charges in that situation. As I said, I may have been misunderstanding turtle's other post and need to find it again.

    It's not just the fear of clearing DP, but all dots. You'd have to wait and watch dot timers to cast your MS just before they needed to be refreshed in the off chance the dots did get wiped. Waste of GCDs is ultimately the issue.
    I understand where you're coming from by the 'wasted' proc; but ultimately it actually gives you an extra GCD to use which you'd ordinarily waste spending the second proc (as if DW:TR procs and you have 2 stacks, both Spikes go out in the same GCD and both do damage) so it's not a bad thing.

    Yeah, it's frustrating. But, the way I see it (for now, anyway), is that it's making me actually think about how to spend my procs without wasting any and it means I'm actually thinking about each GCD I use, similar to what I was having to do with the old rotation, so it's brought some of the 'fun' back. That's just my opinion though :P

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