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  1. #21
    Caudecus's Manor is way easier than AC. I recommend those who disliked AC to try CM. There's also a shortcut

  2. #22
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Just worth noting: You don't want to take a hit to begin with, regardless of your defensive stats.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 11:24 AM ----------

    There needs to be a huge pinging "I AM DOWN" type button, it can be very difficult to actually locate downed team mates in the chaos
    Also worth noting: downed players have an icon over their heads.

    I'm not sure if defeated players do, can't remember atm.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgeez View Post
    Not really... it's all about MAX-DPS and your ability to dodge. If you can't do good DPS then you are worthless and if you can't dodge properly(because you are a casual) then you are also useless.

    Hopefully the casuals won't nerf the game and it'll continue to be hard
    Try replacing casual with bad. I play the game casually. I know how to dodge. Nor do I dont want the game nerfed.

    Stop being so narrow-minded and naive. Playing the game lots does not make you good, playing the game casually does not necessarily make you bad.

  4. #24
    For people crying about trash mobs you are aware if you get 2 people that know how to play control you can keep trash mobs almost locked down 100%.

  5. #25
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgeez View Post
    Not really... it's all about MAX-DPS and your ability to dodge.
    Absolutely not true. Only bads have the mindset that max-dps is the only thing that matters.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  6. #26
    How to un-wow yourself. Made me chuckle a bit.

  7. #27
    Gonna bookmark this for later, appreciated.

  8. #28
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Absolutely not true. Only bads have the mindset that max-dps is the only thing that matters.
    'max dps' is something I've seen too many people build for.

    Let's explain why you need max DPS in WoW and why it doesn't matter in GW2:
    1) Resource management. No mana, no DPS race. There are no healers who're gonna run out of mana because your damage sucks.
    2) Boss phases interchangeable. There isn't a frantic swamping of adds where you must burn the boss down as much as possible.
    3) No enrage timers. You can sit there whacking away at a boss for hours and it won't enrage.

    'Faster damage means the boss goes down quicker. Best form of defense is offense.' Wrong. Best form of defense is defense. Best form of offense is defense. Staying alive is more important than glass cannoning your arse off and dying within 10 seconds of an encounter. The bosses have far too much HP for a glass cannon burn rush, you have to keep it controlled and sustainable. Good DPS is a benefit, but it's certainly not a requirement. After all, someone doing 10k DPS in WoW who dies in 30 seconds does less damage than someone doing 5k DPS who doesn't die in the 5 minute boss fight.
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

    Crucilus Bloodbane - Level 80 Charr Necromancer - Zebra lord of the bank alts
    Esaari - Level 80 Asura Elementalist

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Hjalmtyr View Post
    'max dps' is something I've seen too many people build for.

    Let's explain why you need max DPS in WoW and why it doesn't matter in GW2:
    1) Resource management. No mana, no DPS race. There are no healers who're gonna run out of mana because your damage sucks.
    2) Boss phases interchangeable. There isn't a frantic swamping of adds where you must burn the boss down as much as possible.
    3) No enrage timers. You can sit there whacking away at a boss for hours and it won't enrage.

    'Faster damage means the boss goes down quicker. Best form of defense is offense.' Wrong. Best form of defense is defense. Best form of offense is defense. Staying alive is more important than glass cannoning your arse off and dying within 10 seconds of an encounter. The bosses have far too much HP for a glass cannon burn rush, you have to keep it controlled and sustainable. Good DPS is a benefit, but it's certainly not a requirement. After all, someone doing 10k DPS in WoW who dies in 30 seconds does less damage than someone doing 5k DPS who doesn't die in the 5 minute boss fight.
    1) There is Resoucre management. There is endurance, thieves have initiative and rest of classes have cooldowns that still need to be managed. Just think of 969 paladin tanking priority precata. Only because you don't have energy or mana doesn't mean you don't need to manage the resource that you do have. If you endurance bar is empty and your healing ability on the cooldown for another 20 seconds good luck staying alive.
    2) There is a frantic swamping of adds/poison ticking down where you must burn the boss down as much as possible. Claiming otherwise just shows you haven't experience all of the dungeons yet. Hence you do need to maximize your DPS (disclaimer, I don't mean make a glass cannon build or compromise your utility but rather make the best Damage related decisions, a simple example don't blow a long cooldown if you only have a short window of opportunity to attack the boss )
    3) Yeah, I have not encountered "enrage timer" however it does not mean there are not other mechanics in place that allow you to sit there and stare it down for hours, look back to point 2, I'd call this mechanic "soft enrage"

    I generally agree with rest of what you said but I feel that it would change over time, right now we are just not accustomed to the game enough and "turtling" seems to work out the best as it is the easiest way to succeed. It's all about risk rewards, you want to do it safetly? It will take you quite a bit of time. You took some risked that paid off? You will do it quicker. You took too much risked? You wipe and welcomed to try again.

  10. #30
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMonstrousI View Post
    Caudecus's Manor is way easier than AC. I recommend those who disliked AC to try CM. There's also a shortcut
    Sorrows Embrace has a boss that currently makes all other dungeons look like a children's schoolyard joke. The boss that summons golems took 30 minutes and a lot of graveyard zerging to bring him and his 6000 damage + burn conditon aoes down.
    Last edited by woodydave44; 2012-09-02 at 05:11 AM.

  11. #31
    lol how to un-wow yourself...maybe for scrubs yeh good players in any game know how to maximise their survival as well.

  12. #32
    Time to hit the first dungeon with my lvl 30 engineer.
    They know how to milk the cow.

  13. #33
    A little note about reviving people. Use the "F" key, don't try to click on them. "F" is much easier and quicker to find someone.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by woodydave44 View Post
    Sorrows Embrace has a boss that currently makes all other dungeons look like a children's schoolyard joke. The boss that summons golems took 30 minutes and a lot of graveyard zerging to bring him and his 6000 damage + burn conditon aoes down.
    Did it today , it took as much as you said but didnt graveyard zerg much , aroud like everyone died once maybe one or two of us twice , but we all went in with as many condition removals as possible and we ran for res the moment someone got downed , i was runnig with 3 condition removals and one of em was aoe

    Up to now i did AC ,CM, TA and SE all story mode and i must say hardest one was AC thrash though that might be becos all the group was between lvl 35-40 except me (i was 63) , on that run we actually wiped 4-5 times , bosses were quite easy we only had a bit of hard time on lovers

    CM was piss easy after first boss , i was not even aware that we were killing bosses until a chest showed up after they were defeated , thrash was also easy on this one

    TA and SE was quite well tuned thrash difficulty was mostly mediocre some packs ( multiple warg packs in TA especially) gave us a bit of problem , boss difficulty was a bit higher than thrash had to make a bit runs on TA last boss and SE triple-golem boss

    One of the most important thing i observed was the imprtance of changing your utility skills and weapons depending on the situations , it was a bit hard on first time as we didnt know the bosses but after checking some info on google and knowing if you need condition revoval or stability or whatever was always useful

  15. #35
    My piece of how to un-wow is not to rush into AC unprepared. It is the first dungeon, but it can be frustrating as hell if your group is unprepared. In fact, since the game doesn't block you from going on ( you can waypoint run your way to victory), you can finish the dungeon with a huge repair bill and have a terrible overall experience. The second time I went in AC it was great, the first just felt terrible.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Forgeez View Post
    Not really... it's all about MAX-DPS and your ability to dodge. If you can't do good DPS then you are worthless and if you can't dodge properly(because you are a casual) then you are also useless.

    Hopefully the casuals won't nerf the game and it'll continue to be hard
    The problem isn't casuals not knowing how to dodge (which is an absurd association anyway), it's people like you thinking DPS is the only relevant factor. If you dodge and focus on maxing out your DPS only, your group will not succeed. Sure, dodging (and moving in general) is important, but what's far more important is having a group of people who know how to choose and use all their abilities properly. The OP is spot on: learn how to spec for and use CC, boons, cleanse conditions, and arguably most importantly how to revive your allies and keep yourself alive until they can get to you while you're downed.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-17 at 04:59 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Just worth noting: You don't want to take a hit to begin with, regardless of your defensive stats.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 11:24 AM ----------


    Also worth noting: downed players have an icon over their heads.

    I'm not sure if defeated players do, can't remember atm.
    You also don't have to click on them, just get near them and press F. Additionally, you can /s when you're downed to let people know (though I'm pretty sure the far right downed icon that regens your health also calls out automatically for you).

  17. #37
    Ugh I didn't know interrupt still worked on bosses with stacks of defiant boon. Very good information. Thanks.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerom View Post
    1) There is Resoucre management. There is endurance, thieves have initiative and rest of classes have cooldowns that still need to be managed. Just think of 969 paladin tanking priority precata. Only because you don't have energy or mana doesn't mean you don't need to manage the resource that you do have. If you endurance bar is empty and your healing ability on the cooldown for another 20 seconds good luck staying alive.
    2) There is a frantic swamping of adds/poison ticking down where you must burn the boss down as much as possible. Claiming otherwise just shows you haven't experience all of the dungeons yet. Hence you do need to maximize your DPS (disclaimer, I don't mean make a glass cannon build or compromise your utility but rather make the best Damage related decisions, a simple example don't blow a long cooldown if you only have a short window of opportunity to attack the boss )
    3) Yeah, I have not encountered "enrage timer" however it does not mean there are not other mechanics in place that allow you to sit there and stare it down for hours, look back to point 2, I'd call this mechanic "soft enrage"

    I generally agree with rest of what you said but I feel that it would change over time, right now we are just not accustomed to the game enough and "turtling" seems to work out the best as it is the easiest way to succeed. It's all about risk rewards, you want to do it safetly? It will take you quite a bit of time. You took some risked that paid off? You will do it quicker. You took too much risked? You wipe and welcomed to try again.
    Just to make this clear: Endurance and initiative are not limited resources, therefore it does not affect DPS racing. Unless the boss gets stronger and stronger as time goes on, initiative and endurance will never matter, just like how a rogue will never permanently run out of energy or a warrior will never be eternally rage starved.

    As for add swamping, I haven't seen that except for the guy in Arah who summons grubs yet and that's not really a burn, it's a controlled situation where survivability and focus is key

    As for soft enrage, if you hit a soft enrage in anything then you've probably been doing something terribly wrong. The hard enrage timer in WoW was there to push your DPS up. If there was no hard enrage then you could slack on DPS greatly as long as your tanks and healers were competent. It used to be that we'd end up hitting the enrage timer and having to frantically burn down HP for quite a fun and frantic ending to a fight in WoW (look at the intro to cata when BH was actually challenging in blues), I haven't seen that in GW2 and I haven't really seen a boss with a soft enrage unless it's a power stacking boss which you can usually counter in some way.

    Don't get me wrong, I hope that we get more soft enrage bosses, and I'd really like the risk-reward factor. It's what kept me raiding in WoW in cata. You COULD play it safe, or you could make things more dangerous and give yourself extra damage. There was usually a trade-off or a decision to make that lay outside the encounter itself. For example one tank on Magmaw. That was HELL at release, one tank could barely survive Magmaw's armour debuff, but if you traded off a tank for a DPS then he would go down quicker, so it was often a risk we'd take and, sometimes, it'd bite us in the ass.

    It'd be nice to get the 'You can stand here and get poisoned, but you also get +X% damage' things.
    "Do you know what it's like to fall on the floor, cry your guts out til you got no more? Hey man, now you're really livin'" - Mark Everett

    Crucilus Bloodbane - Level 80 Charr Necromancer - Zebra lord of the bank alts
    Esaari - Level 80 Asura Elementalist

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