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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Ellumina's Avatar
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    Lightbulb [IDEA] Shadow Orb Generator

    I posted a thread on the battle.net Beta Classes forum and one on the Priest forums as well regarding the idea for having a Shadow Orb Generator. I would love it if you could share your thoughts and opinions on this!

    After playing around with the new Shadow rotation and talents, I'm pretty satisfied with everything except for 1 thing: no Shadow Orb generation out of combat.




    THE PROBLEM


    My concern is strictly from a PvE (specifically raiding) point of view. With the old Soul Harvest (Warlocks) and new Astral Communion (Boomkin, a channel that will put you into an eclipse state) in mind, I feel that some form of 3 shadow orb generation would be a great asset to us. Now, I feel we will be in a state that Boomkins had to deal with, where they were hunting down critters and such to build Lunar/Solar energy to get into Eclipse. And are not starting a fight in an eclipsed state was a large hit to that Boomkin's damage.



    THE ANECDOTE


    Just the other day when I was doing H Ragnaros, I had to deal with just a few silly wipes. Before pulling the boss, I went on a hunt for 3 critters that I could Mind Blast in order to generate 3 orbs. The damage between a Priest with 0 orbs and a Priest with 3 orbs at the start of a fight would be incredibly drastic. Glancing from logs, Devouring Plague manages to be my top damage spell (sometimes second). Putting up a first Devouring Plague within the first second of a fight VS putting up a first Devouring Plague the first ~15 seconds of the fight will have a huge affect on our damage. I'm trying to imagine if I were to try and do H Ultraxion prenerf right now with this rotation. High DPS was very crucial at the time, and not having DP at the start of said fight would really cramp our DPS. And I don't even think there's any critters on Ultraxion's platform to Mind Blast after each wipe =[



    THE SUGGESTIONS


    "Shadow Infusion / Shadow Insight" - CHANNELED - Infuses the Priest with Shadow energy, generating 1 Shadow Orb every 2 seconds for 6 seconds. Cannot be used in combat.

    *A cooldown can be added to this, I just have no decided on a decent cooldown number. Without a cooldown, it would be too powerful in questing or PvP scenarios. 1-2 minutes would be reasonable for a PvE environment, but still may not work well in a PvP environment.


    “Shadow Well” - 10 second cast - Summons a shadowy well, granting 1 Shadow Orb (2 second channel) each time the Priest clicks the Shadow Well. Cannot be cast or clicked in combat. Last for 3 minutes or 3 Shadow Orb charges.

    *This might be more viable in a PvP setting with all the cast times required, on top of channels needed for each orb. I put a 3 minute CD on it as well, to mimic the CD on Lightwell. I admit, it’s probably not terribly logical to make this into a clickable well since this only applies to the Priest who made it, but I thought it contrasted the idea of a Lightwell so nicely =P


    “Mind Soothe” - 10 second cast - Places the Priest in a vulnerable state, taking 50% extra damage and dealing 50% less damage. Can only be casted if the Priest has less than 3 Shadow Orbs.

    “Reaping” - 2 second channel - Generates 1 Shadow Orb. Can only be cast while Mind Soothed.

    *Also viable in both settings. Of course, these cast times are a nuisance, but I’m preventing from this concept being abused in PvP, in combat, questing, etc. One would only ever want to be Mind Soothed to max orbs, hence the increase in damage taken and decrease in damage dealt, and taking away the need to be out of combat.


    “Dispersion” - You disperse into pure Shadow energy, reducing all damage taken by 90%. You are unable to attack or cast spells, but you regenerate 6% mana every 1 sec for 6 sec, and generate 1 Shadow Orb every 2 sec when out of combat. Taking 0 damage reduces the cooldown by 1 minute.
    Dispersion can be cast while stunned, feared, or silenced. Clears all snare and movement impairing effects when cast, and makes you immune to them while dispersed.


    *Dispersion is typically used as a defensive CD for a Priest, to prevent damage / death. I thought about attaching Shadow Orb generation straight to Dispersion, but my concern in a PvE setting is that what if that dispersion will be needed as a defensive CD, yet it won’t be up because it was just used to generate orbs? Without making it overpowered (it’d be an insane way to regen mana to be able to cast Dispersion infinitely) by refreshing the CD when there’s no damage, I reduced the CD by 1 minute (1 minute CD, 45 sec with the glyph). Perhaps it can be reduced by 1.5 minutes or something instead, I just wanted to avoid people spamming it to get mana back.et mana back.

    Whether or not you agree with my opinion/suggestion, I appreciate you reading through this and would also appreciate hearing your thoughts. Personally, I would be ecstatic if anything even related to these concepts were to be implemented.

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    How about "Shadowy friends" - You summon 3 random critters from the shadows. Killing each critter gives you an orb and resets your Mindblast cooldown. Critters cannot be summoned in combat.

    On a serious note, yes we need some kind of spell that gives us 3 orbs pre-fight. I believe blizzard class designers know it but they don't want to make us even more "boomkin-alike"..

  3. #3
    I applaud the OP, brilliant post and ideas.

  4. #4
    Typically I have a knee jerk reaction to mechanic changes this close to an expansion launch, b/c devs are in number tuning mode and it'll fall on deaf ears. This however, I think is a very valid exception and deserves lots of posting and bumping in the battle.net thread. Your solutions are interesting and at the very least deserve to be seen by the devs.

    The Dispersion idea especially seems like the best fix, since PvP priests won't be in a hurry to burn it before engaging and if they do, the penalty is rather high.

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    Why not simply have spriest generate shadow orbs passively after something like 5 seconds pass after the end of combat?
    The night is dark and full of terrors...

  6. #6
    You should probably repost your ideas in the MoP beta forums or at the very least the Damage Dealer forums.
    Priest forums are too obscure and probably the least read forums on that site by Devs and gamers alike >.>

    If you need someone else with beta access to make the post for you, Im sure youd get plenty of people here willing to do it for you

  7. #7
    They could just give them something like they gave boomkins, a 10-15 sec channel that gives you orbs, problem solved.
    Make it unuseable in combat or something if the pvp people cry about it for some reason.

  8. #8
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsay View Post
    On a serious note, yes we need some kind of spell that gives us 3 orbs pre-fight. I believe blizzard class designers know it but they don't want to make us even more "boomkin-alike"..
    How about just a "you regenerate 1 orb per 10 seconds while out of combat". Should work IMO.
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  9. #9
    Honestly I would like something to generate orbs faster in combat as well, like a Soul harvest deal (or maybe even dispersion!) so that way you could line it up with burst (assuming dispersing/channeling in normal sustained combat for orbs would be a DPS loss still). Plus faster orb generation all together, its kind of boring only generating enough orbs to cast DP every ~30 seconds or so. Imo the cooldown of Mind Blast needs to scale with either haste or mastery.
    Last edited by Vongimi; 2012-08-31 at 07:39 PM.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!


    My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Ellumina's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the responses! I'm going to post them on the MoP Beta forums as well ^^

    While I'm decently okay with the current status of the orb generation in combat, it would be nice if we had some sort of bursty 2-3 minute CD (Zealotry from Ret Paladins come to mind, where it would generate 3 holy power per Crusader Strike instead of 1).

    EDIT:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6471617648
    ^ I made a new thread on the Beta Classes forum. Is there a better place for me to put this suggestion?

  11. #11
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Better idea than regenerating orbs out of combat:

    Dispersion should restore 3 orbs when it is used. this means we can Dispersion on the run back to regain orbs (we do this anyways for funsies) before the fight, it also gives us an in-combat orb regeneration mechanic, and we can /cancelaura to gain the orbs near instantly and then go back to DPS - but if we do that, we lose our defensive cooldown. I like this idea
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  12. #12
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Personally I think something similar to Soul Harvest but without the healing aspect that it had would be fine.

  13. #13
    Or maybe you're just supposed to generate them in combat? You're comparing shadow orbs to lunar/solar power or soul shards, maybe you should be comparing them to burning embers or combo points.

  14. #14
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kindath View Post
    Or maybe you're just supposed to generate them in combat? You're comparing shadow orbs to lunar/solar power or soul shards, maybe you should be comparing them to burning embers or combo points.
    The difference with Combo Points/Burning Embers is that they can be quickly generated upon pull. A Rogue will be able to get SnD up within 5-6 seconds of pulling the boss. Pulling a boss as a Shadow Priest with 0 orbs means that you don't get your First DP onto the boss for ~20 seconds (even if you pre-cast Mind Blast on pull the effective CD on Mind Blast is 9 seconds due to cast time and it not scaling with haste) seconds. The fact you lose out on procs from Lightweave/Power Torrent (assuming proc-on-pull which usually happens) and only have pre-pot as the extra SP as you apply this results in a massive loss of damage.
    This was pretty much exactly the same thing with Boomkins and their eclipse, so why is it that another hybrid class is given something to fix this and we're not?
    In fact, the difference between this and Boomkins was at least Boomkins had CDs they could pop to help out their lack of eclipse damage. Shadow currently has Shadowfiend/Mindbender, neither of which really contribute massively to our 'burst'. Devouring Plague IS our 'burst' damage, gimping it on every single pull during progression (unless you one-shot everything, which is unlikely during HC progression let's face it) when DPS might be very important in the encounter is just frustrating.
    Last edited by Cycobi; 2012-08-31 at 11:09 PM.

  15. #15
    Good job on getting the matter to official forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    Better idea than regenerating orbs out of combat:

    Dispersion should restore 3 orbs when it is used. this means we can Dispersion on the run back to regain orbs (we do this anyways for funsies) before the fight, it also gives us an in-combat orb regeneration mechanic, and we can /cancelaura to gain the orbs near instantly and then go back to DPS - but if we do that, we lose our defensive cooldown. I like this idea
    The problem with this, it'll be a direct dps gain, and all self respecting priests will use it, then it'll be an outcry on forums that we can't use dispersion for defensive cd anymore. You do need to make it clearly a dps loss.
    I've even posted about adding this effect to dispersion in another thread before. This solves a lot of issues, giving us orbs if we need to pool damage (still a net dps loss, but a sort-of little burst cd on demand), orbs when out of combat, and a reason to stay a bit longer in dispersion / utilize stuns on yourself. Heck, it can even make psychic horror somewhat viable in pvp if you're getting sat on.

  16. #16
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celentes View Post
    Good job on getting the matter to official forums.


    The problem with this, it'll be a direct dps gain, and all self respecting priests will use it, then it'll be an outcry on forums that we can't use dispersion for defensive cd anymore. You do need to make it clearly a dps loss.
    I've even posted about adding this effect to dispersion in another thread before. This solves a lot of issues, giving us orbs if we need to pool damage (still a net dps loss, but a sort-of little burst cd on demand), orbs when out of combat, and a reason to stay a bit longer in dispersion / utilize stuns on yourself. Heck, it can even make psychic horror somewhat viable in pvp if you're getting sat on.
    Ya your right about us complaining if we're forced to use dispersion for dps. We could put the orb restore "upon completing Dispersion" - so you can't /cancelaura to gain them instantly - then we're exchanging 6 GCDs of cast time for a Devouring Plague, plus the DP GCD (so 7 GCDs). If we give a rough DPET to DP of say 300k, then that's 42,850 DPET for the GCDs we spend in Dispersion. That means it's better than Mind Flay and Mind Spike, but nothing else. That might be permissible I'd think. Though we're still "forced" to use it unless it's less valuable than Mind Flay - but in past tiers we were often forced to save cooldowns for mana purposes too (Dispersion, Archangel, Shadowfiend) - so for us that's not really uncommon.
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  17. #17

    Cool

    Please blizzard make this a thing

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    Personally I think something similar to Soul Harvest but without the healing aspect that it had would be fine.
    Soul Harvest is now a passive with extremely low generation. But I think you meant the old version. (channeling spell)

    Unfortually the other two warlock speccs have the same dilemma you have. Searching for critters to build up the secondary resource which is fast depleting when out of combat.

  19. #19
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killem View Post
    Soul Harvest is now a passive with extremely low generation. But I think you meant the old version. (channeling spell)

    Unfortually the other two warlock speccs have the same dilemma you have. Searching for critters to build up the secondary resource which is fast depleting when out of combat.
    I would be pedantic and point out that I said 'had' ^^, but yes, I mean the old version that Warlocks had pre-5.0 but take away the healing aspect so it isn't *too* much of a gain in PvP.

  20. #20
    Good idea. They gave the bloody owls something like that (Astral Communion with no CD), why couldn't they think of something for us. Ffs.

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