Unholy dps help, did we get badly nerfed or am i missing a passive ?

[Atronius]

It's a little silly to tell people to check the tooltip if you haven't either.

Well, I did check all the T4 talent tooltips captin obvious

[s810]

unholy seems fine to me

death siphon is my second to third most damaging ability now after deathcoil and pet attack on some fights

not sure if i'm doing it wrong or not but it seems crazy for a talent

[Varyk]

TwentyTwelve. Unholy has been my shit since DK'S were first released. I remember even tanking Naxx as unholy, back when you had to have your bone shield already up and off cd Since then lots have changed.

First I want to remind everyone we are in a transitional phase. Lots of changes to our class and everyones for that matter. I feel similar to other DK's right now. I feel weak. Before the changes, I had multiple ranks in DS this teir in heroic 25. I wasn't even lucky enough to be fed buffs like the other lucky DK'S (tricks etc). Don't worry. Things will get better, the patch just hit, everyone just needs to learn the new tricks. No ones really testing for 85 that much anyways. Everyone's looking to the future.

Do you have Gurth? If so, you should be forging mastery. Another thing, not a big dps loss, but you should not be taking chilblains and take the movement one, forget what it's called right now. Melee needs to be as fast as possible. You want to have as least amount of downtime as possible, and since we're not ranged, we need to move faster.

Another big thing is diseases. Since SS is increased by 18 percent per disease, it's huge to have 100 percent uptime. The first teir talent is fight dependent really IMO. I personally like unholy blight. I look at it this way. I never really have downtime as it is. I believe the is 30 sec on plague leech, while the cd on unholy blight is 1.5 mins. So I can get 3 free runes with plague leech. This thing with unholy blight is, I have to manage my runes a Lil better, not much. But on Aoe phases, bloods on madness, black phases on Zon'ozz etc, I don't have to spread my diseases, I can usually have up more death runes, and therefore get to BB more, or at least it's how it seems to me.

Lastly, we didn't get our execute yet. And I suspect it's why we feel weaker right now. On the beta DK's were top melee, at least in the sims I saw. Off subject I'm testing frost right now and feel really strong. So try that, maybe you will like the play style better right now. 2h and DW are very close, so it comes down to what you prefer. I'm getting 90-100k oblits while 2h. DW I'm getting 90k HB and FS on rime and KM procs.

Unholy is simming higher. I just wouldn't be so quick to judge and say my dps is worse right now. A lot comes down to you I hate to say. Not knowing is a big part. And theirs a lot of IDK's even for top players. I kinda went on a rant, don't know if I lost you or was even helpful. Any more questions keep asking, I'll keep checking.

Death Knight forever.

---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 12:08 AM ----------



Where u getting your info on Blood Tap? Everyone, including every site, says blood tap is a dps increase.

Blood Tap doesn't trigger Tier13 4 set, this isn't applied.

[Wih]

Just because BT doesn't trigger 4pt13 doesn't mean it can't be an upgrade compared to the other T75 talents. It just means that BT has to be THAT much better than RE or RC that the proc from 4pt13 doesn't equal the playing field.

[Evil Inside]

id say its the loss of the shorter GCD ?

GCD is 1sec for all specs as baseline.

[Viscera]

For me unholy is working a lot better then prepatch and is definately not broken (#1 on quite a few fights during the last DS clear) but that's mostly attributed to how good army of the dead is now. Make sure you use it and you'll see your dps skyrocket

[TwentyTwelve]

Cheers for all the responses, just seen them so sorry for late reply, i haven't raided as unholy yet tbh, im the MT but i sometimes offer my dps spec if we have another tank available,

From what i know Blood tap is the best tier choice IF you do not have T13 4 peice, otherwice R Corruption wins.
I will try using death siphon more ^^ and my disease uptime is pretty much 90-100%.

If i feel i am just far to weak atm i may just try frost and compare the difference, i don't want to have to but something tells me unholy isn't scaled good enough for cata.

Pre patch pulled 35k-40k on dummy
just then i tested dps twice

first test 4.7m dmg stable 29k
second test 5.5m dmg stable 33k

First test was with Blood tap + plague leach
Second test with was Runic corruption + plague leach

I think RC + plague leach is the way forward till mop hits, then without our T13 4 pc Blood tap > R corruption.
still not that happy, my dmg still seems gimped but then again we did kinda get nerfed with needing Expertise.

[Deleted]

has anyone else tried unholy with voll mastery reforge (like masterfrost dw)?

I pulled 48k dps on lvl 85 dummy (without using any personal CD's). Normal rotation - I only added Death Siphon for deathrunes instead of SS ...

[Impartial]

One thing that I haven't notice pop up here is the importance of AotD now. A fully-channeled cast can deliver results from ~800k-1.2m on non +damage bosses, roughly 10 times what is did previously, so using this properly is now much less trivial. Due to a lot of our DPS being caulght up in AotD now, the quicker a fight is over, the higher our DPS, this week on ultra (normal due to a bug that converted the difficulty to LFR whenever we set it to HM, zzz), I was able to net 55k as Unholy. I did not use Death Siphon (from my basic tests it actually seemed a small bet less than SS portions combined) or Plague Leach (0.3% more DPS for that much more attention, nty.) I used instead runic corruption (to get 4pc) and unholy blight, for the AoE reasons that have been mentioned above.

TL;DR, use your CD's well (UH frenzy outside of lust, AotD for burn phases or pre pull, gargoyle with as many buffs as possible), and hope for a quick kill time, and our DPS is now quite high!

[Tyre]

i don't use death siphon at all, apprently its a useless spell for unholy, idk can anyone who knows the class offer support, UH is my offspec but i still am not happy with 30-35k.. when pre patch it was higher :/

I didn't see that this was answered yet, but I find Death Siphon to be useless because Death Pact is stronger for Unholy now in most situations, since it does not kill the pet anymore and it also does not cost Runic Power anymore.
Since you already have your ghoul out all the time anyway the huge chunk of health you can receive is very nice. Compared to Death Siphon, while nice because you can get nice chunks of health more often, makes you spend Death Runes on it.

[s810]

I didn't see that this was answered yet, but I find Death Siphon to be useless because Death Pact is stronger for Unholy now in most situations, since it does not kill the pet anymore and it also does not cost Runic Power anymore.
Since you already have your ghoul out all the time anyway the huge chunk of health you can receive is very nice. Compared to Death Siphon, while nice because you can get nice chunks of health more often, makes you spend Death Runes on it.

you take death siphon for the damage, not the healing proc. that isn't really your job to heal yourself as dps, you can take lichborne to throw out some emergency self heals if you need to or drink a potion. if you're dying as dps either you're standing in the fire or the healing is having problems.

[Lansworthy]

Well, I have noticed the Haste difference in some cases, but I've noticed a huge jump in my DPS.
Given my DPS set is in Firelands gear, due to it being my Off-Spec. I used to be able to pull maybe 28-32k DPS during a Raid; now I'm doing 38k-42k depending on the buffs.

Frost though seems very slow to me...

[Spamor]

Can it be that death siphon is only a dps increase when u don't have a heroic weapon ? Doing like 8k dmg less than a ss with gurthalak hc.

[Deleted]

i tried unholy(using death syphon over ss) reforged to master like dw frost and did 130k burst on ultraxion and it leveled out to 80k then i died cuz i forgott about amz change so i cant say the amount of dps for full fight but its definitly the way to reforge.
no logs this week sadly.
armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%A0zan/simple

[Nangz]

i tried unholy(using death syphon over ss) reforged to master like dw frost and did 130k burst on ultraxion and it leveled out to 80k then i died cuz i forgott about amz change so i cant say the amount of dps for full fight but its definitly the way to reforge.
no logs this week sadly.
armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...3%A0zan/simple

I think I would be interested to see future logs

I'm fairly confused though why death siphon would scale so much better than SS since they both scale with mastery. It scales better, but scourge strike still scales.

[Deleted]

you take death siphon for the damage, not the healing proc. that isn't really your job to heal yourself as dps, you can take lichborne to throw out some emergency self heals if you need to or drink a potion. if you're dying as dps either you're standing in the fire or the healing is having problems.

That tier is all about healing so DS should be considered an healing talent (if it's going to be better than SS as dps talent I see an incoming fix to its damage).
The job of a dps is not really only doing dps you know, we have to survive during a whole fight and we might need extra healing so the best healing talent in that tree is Death Pact, as Tyre said.