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  1. #1

    Concerns about the TOU

    Since I've been banned, I've been looking through the ToU, and I've found a bit...well incredibly concerning.

    (d) NCSOFT HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR SOFTWARE AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING SOFTWARE UNDER SECTION 8(c) or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT NCSOFT MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM NCSOFT MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING NCSOFT MAY IN ITS SOLE AND ABSOLUTE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

    (i) CHANGING ANY PORTION OF THE SERVICE, CONTENT OR SOFTWARE;
    (ii) SEEKING RECOURSE AGAINST YOU BY WAY OF ANY PROCEEDING NCSOFT DEEMS APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES; AND/OR
    (iii) DETERMINING THAT YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND TERMINATING YOUR ACCOUNT UNDER SECTION 3(b) OR SECTION 3(c). NCSOFT HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO PROVIDE YOU WITH NOTICE BEFORE SUCH TERMINATION.


    For those who don't want to read through it all(it was poorly written - and in all caps lock), it essentially states that they can, for any reason, watch, read, and alter anything on your computer - attached to your computer, etc. even if you do not have the game running.

    Am I reading this right? Is this legal..? Can you really, just because of playing a game, be watched at all times, giving someone else full power of your account?
    Avatar given by Sausage Zeldas.

  2. #2
    I don't see how they could monitor anything if the game is not running. Is there a background process that is always on?

    *~To change one's life: Start immediately. Do it flamboyantly.~*

  3. #3
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    You're interpreting it pretty wildly. You might want to notice that you acknowledge specifically what they can do. "including, but not limited to" of course, but that doesn't mean they can do whatever they want.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-08-31 at 10:13 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  4. #4
    well i was pretty much done with the game, but after your post, i un-installed.

  5. #5
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    Looks like standard terms and Conditions for any online game to me.

  6. #6
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Oh here we go, its Origins all over again. If you are concerned with what is in the ToS you better be running Unix and it better be BSD. If your running a Windows machine you have far more to worry about from Microsoft and what they are transmitting about you than any video game company. And if you have a Mac, shame on you for even starting this thread....
    Last edited by philefluxx; 2012-08-31 at 10:15 PM.

  7. #7
    People never seem to read these..

    they're quite interesting.

  8. #8
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdh1974 View Post
    well i was pretty much done with the game, but after your post, i un-installed.
    Stop being paranoid. You're wildly interpreting the clause to mean something it doesn't. Blizzard has similar things in their ToU, just worded better:

    You hereby acknowledge and agree that:

    A. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN “UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM” AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 7. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.

    B. WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT.

    C. Blizzard may, with or without notice to you, disclose your Internet Protocol (IP) address(es), personal information, chat logs, and other information about you and your activities: (a) in response to a request by law enforcement, a court order or other legal process; or (b) if Blizzard believes that doing so may protect your safety or the safety of others.

    D. BLIZZARD MAY MONITOR, RECORD, REVIEW, MODIFY AND/OR DISCLOSE YOUR CHAT SESSIONS, WHETHER VOICE OR TEXT, WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND YOU HEREBY CONSENT TO SUCH MONITORING, RECORDING, REVIEW, MODIFICATION AND/OR DISCLOSURE. Additionally, you acknowledge that Blizzard is under no obligation to monitor your electronic communications, and you engage in those communications at your own risk.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  9. #9
    Fluffy Kitten Remilia's Avatar
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    Doesn't have anything to do with altering your computer. It's statement they can do any method of communicating your system hardware (so long as it stays as communication) to retrieve said information.

    It's not 'illegal' as there are many examples of this, but it is unethical.

  10. #10
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remilia View Post
    Doesn't have anything to do with altering your computer. It's statement they can do any method of communicating your system hardware (so long as it stays as communication) to retrieve said information.
    Exactly. It nowhere says that it may modify your computer's state or install it's own code onto your machine without your consent.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    Am I reading this right? Is this legal..? Can you really, just because of playing a game, be watched at all times, giving someone else full power of your account?
    Its their "warden" clause. They are probably within their legal rights to scan your memory while you're playing the game (lawsuits vs Blizzard's Warden failed), but if they tried to scan your computer while you weren't playing the game, they'd probably be up the proverbial creek without any means of steering quicker than you could call your personal lawyer.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by strangerdanger View Post
    People never seem to read these..

    they're quite interesting.
    Its because its so unattractive to read, like everything in caps

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    For those who don't want to read through it all(it was poorly written - and in all caps lock), it essentially states that they can, for any reason, watch, read, and alter anything on your computer - attached to your computer, etc. even if you do not have the game running.

    Am I reading this right? Is this legal..? Can you really, just because of playing a game, be watched at all times, giving someone else full power of your account?
    No, you are not reading it right. They cannot "alter" your PC. They can terminate your license and use-priveleges of the game. There is no background process that I know of; this can only occur when the game client is running.

    There is nothing illegal about what they laid out framework for here. It's also not poorly written, it's in legal-speak. In the event of litigation or arbitration, it needs to be well documented.

    IF you ever played WoW, most games on Steam, any game that was GameSpy enabled, or had Punkbuster, if you use Windows or MacOS, you're already subject to and under this type of monitoring. So..... yeah.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk schippie's Avatar
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    Its not really different from blizzard.. every blizzard game has a warden 3.0? by now last update was i think during TOC not sure if it was updated for D3.

    And no program can run something without premission from the user. Otherwise every virusscanner on the planet is going to give red flags. Its simply not allowed, blizzards warden tool is as close to spyware as we are going to get. It literally reads your memory and compares it to hash values in the database.

    Nothing honestly to see here. Its now being done by most modern MMOs to prevent things like cheats etc. and its the most effiecient way there is.

  15. #15
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    I swear some people just seem to make threads to badmouth GW2.
    It's pretty much the defining rule of the internet: Make mountains out of molehills.

    Kinda like certain major news networks!
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    I swear some people just seem to make threads to badmouth GW2.
    its the new cool

  17. #17
    1. This is pretty standard across most MMO's.

    2. This is hardware monitoring, not software monitoring. I see nowhere that indicates that it will scan the software and files on a drive, but rather the hardware and its interaction with the game.

  18. #18
    the TOS is like that in every thing :P

    even south-park made an episode making fun of those terms and people that don't read them :P

  19. #19
    Bloodsail Admiral WarpKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiing View Post
    its the new cool
    And the old cool is having swarms of GW2 hypers/players go into WoW threads and derail them
    Last edited by WarpKnight; 2012-08-31 at 10:37 PM.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by WarpKnight View Post
    And the old cool is having swarms of GW2 hypers/players go into WoW threads and derail them
    Yes but no one cares about the old cool!

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