1. #1

    400% manapool but what about reg?

    >I have no active account, so i can't look it up myself<

    I was bored and so i looked around in this talent calc.
    As i see, every healer except priest gets a 400% manapool but also has higher cost on spells.
    FoL costs over 6 times more then Flashheal from priests, but i'm wondering about regeneration?

    Is is also 4 times higher? Because i can't find a passive that says so :/

  2. #2
    Pit Lord Adramalech's Avatar
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    Priests don't need a 400% passive, they just get it by default. The reason for this is that all 3 of a priest's specializations are caster oriented, and as such, they don't need a passive boosting their mana so that it won't affect other specs.

    An example would be a Shaman. They have Enhancement, a melee spec. As such, they get a lower amount of mana. Elemental and Restoration both get a 400% mana increase to compensate.

    I'm not too good at explaining it, but I do hope that helped
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  3. #3
    Wait, so priests have the same manapool as paladins, but only 1/6 of the manacost?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dklol View Post
    >I have no active account, so i can't look it up myself<

    I was bored and so i looked around in this talent calc.
    As i see, every healer except priest gets a 400% manapool but also has higher cost on spells.
    FoL costs over 6 times more then Flashheal from priests, but i'm wondering about regeneration?

    Is is also 4 times higher? Because i can't find a passive that says so :/
    Mana regeneration is based on the amount of spirit the character has. All caster specs have the same base mana. The ones that get +400% are mana using classes that are not primarily casters in all specs, eg. feral druid, ret pally, enhancement shaman, which have 20% of the mana pool that pure caster classes (mage, warlock, priest) have.

  5. #5
    Mana pools and costs should be roughly equivalent across all the healers; as stated already, priests look weird because their 100k pool is already base and the other classes need a perk to bump mana and spell costs up for equivalence. To address what I think is your primary concern, my regen in 385 Holy gear with about 2.5k spirit is about 5k mp5 non-combat, 2.5k-ish combat.
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  6. #6
    Pit Lord Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dklol View Post
    Wait, so priests have the same manapool as paladins, but only 1/6 of the manacost?
    Mana costs are a % of base mana. A priest's base mana is 100k. A paladin's base mana is something like... 20k, I'm not really sure. To spend an equivalent amount of mana as a holy paladin, they need a higher base mana % cost, since the rest of their mana isn't base, it's added by their passive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Twinking is like going back to school when you are 30, just to be smarter than the other kids.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
    Mana pools and costs should be roughly equivalent across all the healers; as stated already, priests look weird because their 100k pool is already base and the other classes need a perk to bump mana and spell costs up for equivalence. To address what I think is your primary concern, my regen in 385 Holy gear with about 2.5k spirit is about 5k mp5 non-combat, 2.5k-ish combat.
    Thx, now i think i get it.
    I didn't realize that +mana on int is gone, and that all mana is base now :/

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by murosfw View Post
    Mana regeneration is based on the amount of spirit the character has. All caster specs have the same base mana. The ones that get +400% are mana using classes that are not primarily casters in all specs, eg. feral druid, ret pally, enhancement shaman, which have 20% of the mana pool that pure caster classes (mage, warlock, priest) have.
    I think what you're freaking out about is the tooltip saying X% base mana.

    Base mana is mana before any modifiers.

    If your healing spell costs 30% base mana, it's using your mana before that 400% boost

    (so, for example, a protection paladin casting a 30% base mana spell is spending 30% his mana pool to cast that spell. A holy paladin, is spending 6% his mana pool to cast that spell)

    essentially, take those base mana costs, and divide them by about 5 to figure out what the cost of your total mana is. so flash of light is about 7.2% of your total mana pool, compared to a priests 5%.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dklol View Post
    Thx, now i think i get it.
    I didn't realize that +mana on int is gone, and that all mana is base now :/
    Only a Priest's mana is considered base across all three specs; for the rest of us healing hybrids, base mana is defined by the non-caster specs (Prot and Ret for Paladins, Enh for Shammys, Feral/Guardian for Druids) since there is absolutely no point to a melee running around with 100k+ mana pools.
    I am Grôgnárd, the one and only!

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by dklol View Post
    Wait, so priests have the same manapool as paladins, but only 1/6 of the manacost?
    Lvl 85 flash heal costs 5900 mana. Lvl 85 flash of light costs 7560. I can't compare relative amount healed, as I don't have a healing spec or gear on my pally, but the costs are nowhere near 6 times as much. You may possible have been looking at the spells for different level characters, as the costs are a percentage of base mana.

  11. #11
    I thought about playing wow again with mop, but what they changed is pretty stupid
    Don't really like the idea of fixed manapools.

    This change just makes haste the worst stat ever, it will just make you go oom faster xD

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dklol View Post
    I thought about playing wow again with mop, but what they changed is pretty stupid
    Don't really like the idea of fixed manapools.

    This change just makes haste the worst stat ever, it will just make you go oom faster xD

    Haste also makes your HoTs tick more often... noob.
    Last edited by Zeroi; 2012-08-31 at 11:03 PM.

  13. #13
    Maybe you shouldn't be using Flash of Light a lot? I don't use a lot of Flash Heal outside of From Darkness, Comes Light procs...

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Charo View Post
    Maybe you shouldn't be using Flash of Light a lot? I don't use a lot of Flash Heal outside of From Darkness, Comes Light procs...
    Just...wow! You totally answered the question! And, as i said in my first post, i'm playing wow right now. Thanks for the great tip how i can become better!!

  15. #15
    Yeah, Holy Light and Holy Shock are pretty much your go-to heals, now, and Word of Glory will be your primary dump; for AoE heals, Holy Radiance causes HS to splash, and then dump with Light of Dawn - but HR still costs a ton, FYI. Flash of Light and Divine Light are still extremely useful and have their places, you just have to learn which heal to use for which situation
    I am Grôgnárd, the one and only!

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by dklol View Post
    I thought about playing wow again with mop, but what they changed is pretty stupid
    Don't really like the idea of fixed manapools.

    This change just makes haste the worst stat ever, it will just make you go oom faster xD
    I wouldn't worry too much about going OOM, intellect still increases spellpower for bigger heals, and haste is good because it allows you to use your mana more efficiently, by packing more of the more mana efficient heals into the time you have available to keep people alive (eg. for a priest, heal and greater heal have the same cast time, but different mana costs and amounts healed. Heal does less but does more per mana point spent). And haste also increases the number of ticks you get on a HoT. The problem they were addressing by fixing mana pool sizes was that at top ends of content, healers could effectively never run out of mana unless they stupidly spammed inefficient spells, as their mana pools were large enough to allow them huge busrts of non-stop activity. Mana regenreation rates should remain relatively similar as during cata, so overall mana expenditure should be roughly the same. But sustained spamming will get you into trouble faster.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by murosfw View Post
    Lvl 85 flash heal costs 5900 mana. Lvl 85 flash of light costs 7560.
    Mana costs are generally higher for paladins since we are balanced around free heals from holy power. At least this is what blizzard said

  18. #18
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dklol View Post
    I thought about playing wow again with mop, but what they changed is pretty stupid
    Don't really like the idea of fixed manapools.
    Paladins have larger heal costs (in relation to other classes) because we can generate a lot of free healing through Holy Power and Beacon of Light heals. They specifically mentioned this in the beta class balance thread on the official forums (can't spend time on linking at the moment, sorry). The mana regen model for Paladins originally had a similar style to the other healer specs, but Holy paladins just ended up having more mana at the end of a fight than any other healer.

    Quote Originally Posted by dklol View Post
    This change just makes haste the worst stat ever, it will just make you go oom faster xD
    This is a logical fallacy. Haste only makes you OOM faster if you're healing an infinite health pool that begins at 1 HP. Even at that point, all healers should OOM after a certain point, and paladins should be able to last just as long as other healers in that situation with smart use of Holy Power abilities to allow regen to do it's work.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dklol View Post
    I thought about playing wow again with mop, but what they changed is pretty stupid
    Don't really like the idea of fixed manapools.

    This change just makes haste the worst stat ever, it will just make you go oom faster xD
    Who cares how much mana you have, what matters is what you can do with it, and that hasn't really changed. They removed a useless number from the game, which really didn't tell you anything, and thus made things simpler. Now you just have to worry about mana cost and regen, as opposed to also having to think about some trivial total mana value. You can still eyeball how geared someone is by their total health, if that's what you're concerned with.

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