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  1. #1

    How to make Dungeons and Champions easier:

    *** Title should be "How to make Dungeons and Bosses more engaging"

    TL;DR: Dodging is useless unless you know where to dodge. Add an attack telegraphing system so people know where/when attacks are coming, but only give them just enough time to see and and gtfo the way so it remains challenging and interactive at the same time.

    Borrow a little bit from The Secret World! Honestly, ANet has already done this with the dodge system, which when I started playing thought it felt EXACTLY like TSW's system, but I digress.



    See those white lines on the ground? In TSW, those appear any time an enemy is charging up a BIG attack that will likely take out more than half of your health bar. Attacks like this happen frequently in GW2, as anyone who has fought a Champion Giant or entered a Dungeon will know. The problem with this in GW2 is these attacks are not telegraphed very well at all! Sometimes the enemy will pull their weapon back, sometimes it will even glow, but in all honesty you have NO IDEA where it will hit, so the only thing you can do is dodge back and run as far away as possible, hoping that is enough. Even worse though, is that sometimes these attacks aren't telegraphed, or sometimes they are so quick that you have absolutely no time to react. Casual players don't have a .01 second reaction speed to enemy movement; hell most hardcore players don't either.

    The attack telegraphing system here is actually already in place for AoE attacks. Those little white and red rings on the ground when an ally or enemy drops an AoE is exactly what the game needs more of. Basically when you see them on the ground, you know right away to GTFO or you are going to die. Such dodging is what GW2 combat is entirely about, due to the lack of tanks and healers, so I think it would be a very logical step to take.

    Now, adding in TSW's exact system IMO would make combat entirely too easy. This is why I'd suggest a few things:
    1. Make the lines red, so they are A. harder to see, and B. easily classified as ENEMY attacks.
    2. Don't do what TSW did and make these 'charged' attacks take 3+ seconds to cast. Any numbskull could avoid that.
    3. At the same time, don't make them go off in .25 seconds either. Nobody can avoid that.
    4. ADD MORE MECHANICS. Massive bosses that LOOK really nice are still boring as hell if they only have two simple attacks that don't hit anybody.

    Adding this little 'hint' system would make combat much more fluid and not so aggravating, don't you think? One nice feature of this that I found in TSW is that it didn't make combat too easy (except on the afforementioned attacks that charged for 3+ seconds and you just had to sidestep out of them), but it made it more involved. This would be an EXCELLENT system for world raid bosses like Shadow Behemoth and Shatterer. Example: When they breath fire, instead of just burning everything directly in front of the mouth, have them launch fireballs that each get their own little telegraphed area, but make them fall QUICK so players have to react and get out of the way. This way 100 people won't get insta-gibbed, but people will still have to react to the boss and dodge accordingly. Use ANet's epic group of testers to determine what speed/size of these attacks would be too easy or too difficult, and there you go. Another example would be a large 'swipe' attack that takes up a certain area, but also attacks rather quickly. These lines would appear on the ground, and if you don't get out of the way you take a big hit and get knocked back. Sounds good right?
    Last edited by Artorias; 2012-09-01 at 11:11 AM.

  2. #2
    NOO!!!! Guild wars 2 is the best game ever created!! If they change ANYTHING to cater to casual noobs then it's a huge step down. I like the way most dungeons are insanely hard because when i accomplish them that means i will get better rewards! That is what Guild wars 2 is about!

  3. #3
    I don't really want this, I don't have a problem with the way things currently are. Last thing I want added is "helper" mechanics.

    I should also add, it doesn't matter which direction you dodge, if you dodge at the right time the cast will miss.
    Last edited by Starry101; 2012-09-01 at 10:28 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Forgeez View Post
    NOO!!!! Guild wars 2 is the best game ever created!! If they change ANYTHING to cater to casual noobs then it's a huge step down. I like the way most dungeons are insanely hard because when i accomplish them that means i will get better rewards! That is what Guild wars 2 is about!
    Already elitism in this game? Didn't take that long.

    Edit:
    On second thought, could be sarcasm. I sure hope it is.

    @Thread:
    I like that, at the moment you are royally screwed in dungeons if you are a melee.
    Last edited by Marston; 2012-09-01 at 10:32 AM.

  5. #5
    I agree that I don't want the game EASIER because... well... it's already easy as hell.

    But do two things.
    1. Ramp up the difficulty, add actual mechanics, give enemies more moves, etc.
    2. Add this feature, but make it so it only gives you a quick warning and YOU still have to react to it.

    That'll keep everything challenging and interactive.

  6. #6
    The Patient Arainie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marston View Post
    Already elitism in this game? Didn't take that long.

    Edit:
    On second thought, could be sarcasm. I sure hope it is.
    I haven't played the game since the beta, but honestly, is there anything wrong in wanting a challenge?
    I realize his statement is probably not all that serious, if not one hundred percent sarcasm, but hell a dungeon that doesn't cause a wipefest until you get the mechanics of it is a dungeon far too easy in any game IMO. In all honesty I don't understand people who just want to cruise through something and get a reward for time spent instead of progress made!

  7. #7
    In my opinion, the game's fine as it is. I don't want more graphical elements appearing while I'm fighting something. Telegraphed attacks are easy enough to see as they are now.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Arajal View Post
    In my opinion, the game's fine as it is. I don't want more graphical elements appearing while I'm fighting something. Telegraphed attacks are easy enough to see as they are now.
    Indeed they should make it even harder if you ask me. At the moment some noobs are able to complete the dungeon which is sad.... hopefully they'll make it insane hard for us hardcore players!

    GW2 & ISRAEL BEZT

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    The game is fine as it is, there is no need for graphical warnings.

  10. #10
    Pandaren Monk Archimand's Avatar
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    challange is fine but unless you played a melee against 1 shoting champion/boss then you seriously have no saying in this matter

    melee need to use dodge pretty much on cooldown and somtimes its not enough
    "The speed of light is faster than the speed of sound.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Arainie View Post
    I haven't played the game since the beta, but honestly, is there anything wrong in wanting a challenge?
    I realize his statement is probably not all that serious, if not one hundred percent sarcasm, but hell a dungeon that doesn't cause a wipefest until you get the mechanics of it is a dungeon far too easy in any game IMO. In all honesty I don't understand people who just want to cruise through something and get a reward for time spent instead of progress made!
    I have nothing against challenge, but ridiculous high numbers if you get hit once (which has a much higher chance being in melee range) is not really hard compared to mechanics. And except the lovers fight, all bosses - even the big ones like the Shadow Elementals and The Shatterer - have piss easy mechanics. It's just the damage that makes it hard. Hence why I think trash packs are harder then pretty much all bosses I have fought yet, just because there are more enemies that can hit you.

    And as said, if you try to melee in a dungeon you die pretty much instant if there are more then 1 or 2 mobs. =/

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Marston View Post
    I have nothing against challenge, but ridiculous high numbers if you get hit once (which has a much higher chance being in melee range) is not really hard compared to mechanics. And except the lovers fight, all bosses - even the big ones like the Shadow Elementals and The Shatterer - have piss easy mechanics. It's just the damage that makes it hard. Hence why I think trash packs are harder then pretty much all bosses I have fought yet, just because there are more enemies that can hit you.

    And as said, if you try to melee in a dungeon you die pretty much instant if there are more then 1 or 2 mobs. =/
    Exactly. This is why I say only do this if:
    1. There are MORE mechanics, with each boss/champion having a large variety of attacks (with only 1, MAYBE 2 instakill attacks)
    2. This system is very limited in that it only serves as a warning to where the attack will hit, and doesn't completely gimp combat.

    I still await the MMO that has actual mechanics in boss fights... oh wait that was WoW. But they have Pandas. QQ

    tl;dr, make bosses more like WoW bosses? idk. I'm just really disappointed in the huge-scale encounters in this game, ESPECIALLY what I have seen of the final boss (don't wanna spoil anything though). Boss mechanics are a thing of the past, replaced with pretty visuals and casual gameplay.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Artorias View Post
    Exactly. This is why I say only do this if:
    1. There are MORE mechanics, with each boss/champion having a large variety of attacks (with only 1, MAYBE 2 instakill attacks)
    2. This system is very limited in that it only serves as a warning to where the attack will hit, and doesn't completely gimp combat.

    I still await the MMO that has actual mechanics in boss fights... oh wait that was WoW. But they have Pandas. QQ

    tl;dr, make bosses more like WoW bosses? idk. I'm just really disappointed in the huge-scale encounters in this game, ESPECIALLY what I have seen of the final boss (don't wanna spoil anything though). Boss mechanics are a thing of the past, replaced with pretty visuals and casual gameplay.
    b-b-b-but g-g-guildwars 2 have revolutionized the mmo- market r-r-r-right?
    Last edited by Forgeez; 2012-09-01 at 11:18 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Forgeez View Post
    b-b-b-but g-g-guildwars 2 have revolutionized the mmo- market r-r-r-right?
    GW2 revolutionized the LEVELING experience. Bosses......... not so much. I do love the open world bosses but DAMN they are boring once you realize what's going on.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Artorias View Post
    GW2 revolutionized the LEVELING experience. Bosses......... not so much. I do love the open world bosses but DAMN they are boring once you realize what's going on.
    Which basically comes down to two things:

    Avoid the AoE (spam) and kill the Adds. No adds up? Damage the boss. Repeat.

    The tactics in this game are definitly as complex as in Molten Core.

  16. #16
    Why would I need such thing if I dodge even in the AOE zone I still evade the hit? Please explain.

  17. #17
    they could give the option to turn it off. They do that for the red/white aoe rings. help the people that need a little help. let the ones that don't need it not use it.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by scudder5000 View Post
    they could give the option to turn it off. They do that for the red/white aoe rings. help the people that need a little help. let the ones that don't need it not use it.
    But then everyone would use it because atm being a melee in the game is fucked horrible because you get one shotted. No need for healing just DPS and dodging

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapti View Post
    Why would I need such thing if I dodge even in the AOE zone I still evade the hit? Please explain.
    It's easy to dodge anything IF you know it is coming. A lot of attacks simply aren't telegraphed well and kill you in one shot, which is a big problem. One notable example is the Champion Giant that attacks the town north of the Charr starting zone. It has this AoE attack which looks IDENTICAL to all of his other attacks (either stomping or punching the ground), it has like a thousand yard range and instantly kills anyone who isn't behind something or dodging. It's quite rediculous.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Vinni's Avatar
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    So basically you want an advantage so you can play better? Hell no, learn to dodge or just die trying.
    ''The only true failure is when you stop trying''.

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