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  1. #41
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valort View Post
    Stop comparing every game to WoW, and you'll be one step closer to enjoying life.

    I see people making the same mistake over and over. Comparing every freaking game out there with WoW. WoW is WoW, other games aren't WoW. Rift tried to be WoW, SWTOR was buggy WoW in space. Aion was WoW with wings. GW2 is WoW with no mounts. Etc etc etc.

    Know what? Lets call it: IT IS ALL FREAKING PACMAN WITH SWORDS. Happy now?

    Seriously, did WoW spoil players so much they need to compare everything to it? Do you go around comparing every meal you eat to McDonalds as well? "Oh, the steak was great, but would be better if it was minced, in a bun, with cheese, lettuce, and large fries on the side!"
    Because you have to compare products that are similar to each other to get a better idea of just how good it really is. You can't judge quality purely in a void.

    I'm not going to compare my dinner at Olive Garden to my "meal" at McDonald's, but I damn well plan on comparing McDonald's to Burger King to Wendy's and possibly even to Arby's and Chik-Fil-A.

    I probably wouldn't compare it to Subway, though it's possible (considering when I have to choose where to eat lunch when out and about, I have to choose between these places), and I could still compare Subway to Quiznos and Which Wich.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-09-01 at 11:56 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Sort of emergent play/non grouping was seen in Rift, Warhammer and L2 iirc.

    The "leap" so to speak is not in open world laissez faire for GW2 but the branching public quest system. Whereas previous games had their public quests & objective sharing relatively static on the map or on a limited timer.

    There is evolution in GW2's over world but you are likely misplacing where it is at and to what degree.

    Just kinda saying.
    Haven't played War Hammer myself so I can't comment on that, but in Rift, most of the questing are static like in WoW; the so called grouping systems in Rift applies only to very limited special events and group events, most of the levelling experience in the game though, still doesn't encourage group play (at least most of my personal levelling experience in Rift is very solo).

    I feel a lot of people are misunderstanding the term "revolutionary". I do agree with you that most of the systems in GW2 aren't revolutionary. But being revolutionary doesn't necessarily have to be in the product itself; it can also be in the results that the product creates by how the product applies its features. Look at smart phones for example, nothing about the product itself is actually revolutionary; touch screen existed years before smart phones, so are most of the features found in older PDAs. But the fact that they were able to package these features and apply them in such a user friendly way for the general public that it made it revolutionary: it became the standards for phones moving forward.

    And I feel GW2 is doing the same thing: most of its features aren't revolutionary. But like you mentioned, it combines the non-static branching of the public quest systems, with other things such as "open world laissez faire", along with other things like it's focus on exploration, and applied them nicely together so well that the result is a revolutionary experience that most people have never seen in an MMO

    Now, does this mean that GW2 will be successful? Not necessarily. It could be like the first generation of smart phones (which isn't made by Apple or Samsung afaik), where they came up with the tip of the idea, showed it's potentials, but it was another company, like Apple, that came along and "perfected" it and made it so popular. But nonetheless, what GW2 did was it made the first big step towards the right direction of the next generation of MMO, at least in the social aspect of it, that hopefully, the up-coming MMOs will follow.
    Last edited by Seolla; 2012-09-02 at 12:05 AM.

  3. #43
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    I have to genuinely ask: Who out there was calling this revolutionary? O_o

    Was it in their manifesto or something? Or sensationalist internet articles?

    Many people in this sub-forum have simply been calling it exactly what it is: evolutionary. No r.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-01 at 07:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Seolla View Post
    Now, does this mean that GW2 will be successful? Not necessarily. It could be like the first generation of smart phones (which isn't made by Apple or Samsung afaik), where they came up with the tip of the idea, showed it's potentials, but it was another company, like Apple, that came along and "perfected" it and made it so popular. But nonetheless, what GW2 did was it made the first big step towards the right direction of the next generation of MMO, at least in the social aspect of it, that hopefully, the up-coming MMOs will follow.
    PDAs happened long before smart phones and tablets. :3

    I remember them being all the rage, back in the 90s I think, then they just kinda disappeared.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-09-02 at 12:06 AM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  4. #44
    its hardly evolutionary tho drake

    the game is just the same as an MMO but you can only spec DPS and quests are auto accepted within a certain proximity of the giver.

    oh, and its a bunch of fancy names.

    WvWvW is a worse version of AV due to realm/server imbalances and SUPER poor thought out scoring systems and the standard PvP is subject to gearing despite what they said about an equal gearing base.

    to make my opinion known:
    i think the game is terrible, flawed in many aspects and im guessing its this way because it was shipped far earlier than A-NET wanted it to be. now, im still having fun because i get to play with my bf and that's the only reason i'm continuing to play it. the moment we hit 80 together im going to drop it, unless he asks to me to play with him more. im playing this game purely out of my love of spending time with the man i love
    Last edited by Cranberries; 2012-09-02 at 12:10 AM.

  5. #45
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    its hardly evolutionary tho drake
    How is it not evolutionary? You know what an evolution is, don't you?

    In previous MMOs, you had to run up to a quest giver, say hello, and accept a quest into your quest log. It's so very formulaic and expected that people just kinda don't pay attention to it, and mechanically go through the steps over and over and over, thousands of times.
    That step has been removed. Now you just get the quest showing up on your screen - don't even have a quest log.
    That's very much an improvement, and makes the questing experience more smooth. Much less of a hassle.

    You can still talk to the NPC if you want to get some random lore stuff, but you don't have to - There's tons of NPCs in the game you can talk to for lore things that have absolutely NO association with hearts or events. They're just fun lore.

    That's definitely an evolution of the questing experience on its own. There's numerous other small evolutions in the game like this.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-09-02 at 12:13 AM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    its still a grind though?
    This game is far from a grind. Yes, the quests may feel the same as other games, but you are rewarded with lots of xp for completing them, making levelling very fast and effortless. When I played Tera, 99% of quests were go here and kill 30 of these. Problem was, when turned in, they gave very little reward so you had to pick it up again as a repeatable and do it again, and again. At high levels, the game was so incredibly grindy that it was taking me days to complete one level. I only had one zone to choose from and I had to repeat lots of quests. That is what is a grind. GW2 offers many zones for the same level of play, so you can explore new areas if you get bored of one. I'm not even trying to level fast, but it just happens on its own.

  7. #47
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry101 View Post
    This game is far from a grind.
    Oh, the grind's still there, it's just nowhere near as visible. Hidden underneath all sorts of layers.

    I personally have never done any "grinding" in the sense that I've run around doing events, completing hearts, gathering resources, etc etc, not because I want to gain exp, but just to do them. Because I have to expend effort to notice the grind here, and I don't care to notice it.
    Could it be said I'm "grinding" out map completion, in that sense? I suppose. But most of the time, I do stuff nearby just because I can, and because I love stabbing bad guys in the back. Or blowing them up. Or whatever.

    In WoW, it's just kinda in my face. I do quests in WoW just for the sake of exp. Quests are green? I move on, don't care.
    In CoH, I didn't do missions because the missions or the stories there were fun. I did them because I wanted to gain levels. VERY much notice the grind there, much moreso than in WoW, and thus I could never bring myself to hit max level.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-09-02 at 12:16 AM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  8. #48
    Brewmaster Xothic's Avatar
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    I think the game is really good at hiding the fact that its a grind fest, that has got to be one of the best qualities of it. You're grinding mobs, but it doesnt feel like it, you know?

    Or, in this case, maybe it does. Fuck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
    Xothic - Prot Paladin - Expired at the end of 5.1, returned start of 5.4, left again. Returned again, left again, returned again. You know how it is.

  9. #49
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I have to genuinely ask: Who out there was calling this revolutionary? O_o
    The devs themselves.

  10. #50
    also another gripe is the down levelling system. i wanted to learn artificing for my bf so when we both hit max level he can use cooking to make my legendary mat and i can use weaponsmithing/artificing to make his. now, because of this i decided to do queensdale and people have said "you get downlevelled so its hard" - no, i'm 1 shotting everything. its just like going to Borean Tundra at level 85 - you 1 shot everything, and everything is done at lightspeed with your eyes closed.

    this isn#t bad tho, he's pestering me so much about levelling artificin D<

  11. #51
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Eh. Gotta be sensationalist to draw more sales, I'd say.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  12. #52
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Eh. Gotta be sensationalist to draw more sales, I'd say.
    They stopped sales

  13. #53
    Legendary! Absolute Justice's Avatar
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    Considering I have level 80 friends, and I'm almost there myself a week after pre launch, I'd say the grind is barely there.


  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Eh. Gotta be sensationalist to draw more sales, I'd say.
    so tell me, if the dev's never lie: what in this game is a revolution? also lets ignore hte fact they stopped sales lol

    so far i've found only devolutions of things mmos have done better, and which makes me happy to play them because i feel like im being rewarded. the loot system in gw2 is exactly the same as the loot system in d3: any stats, any type, any pre/suffix can appear - tell me that's a good thing please especially when you can't even sell items on the AH because its broke AND salvaging it gives probably 1-3 ore, 1-3 wood, or 1-3 cloth/leather etc.
    Last edited by Cranberries; 2012-09-02 at 12:21 AM.

  15. #55
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digglett View Post
    Considering I have level 80 friends, and I'm almost there myself a week after pre launch, I'd say the grind is barely there.
    And what will you do at 80?

  16. #56
    Elemental Lord Arbs's Avatar
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    Heres 2 good questions, what MMO doesn't have grind? Whats wrong with grind??

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Heres 2 good questions, what MMO doesn't have grind? Whats wrong with grind??
    nothing - when you get rewarded. in gw2 the grind gives no reward.

  18. #58
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    so far i've found only devolutions of things mmos have done better
    And I've found the exact opposite. *shrugs*

    To each their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberries View Post
    any stats, any type, any pre/suffix can appear - tell me that's a good thing please
    Of course it is. There isn't a single useless stat in GW2.

    Unlike in D3...
    Some stats may not be useful to you and the way you play the game, but there's lots of useful stats out there. Got a piece with Precision and Malice? Great! Crits can proc conditions on some professions, with the right traits.
    Got Compassion and Power! Great! You'll hit harder, and heal yourself for more.
    Got Expertise and Toughness! Great, you can keep conditions up for longer and take less damage at the same time.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-09-02 at 12:29 AM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  19. #59
    Elemental Lord Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archdruid Dehydrate View Post
    Heres 2 good questions, what MMO doesn't have grind? Whats wrong with grind??
    There's nothing wrong with little grind here and there. It's the amount of grind that irritates people.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    The devs themselves.
    -snip-
    Thats honestly just a marketing tactic used by all the current day MMO's , I cant think of a single MMO thats come out within the past two or three years that hasnt described itself as 'revolutionary' at LEAST once. Rift, Tera, SWOTOR, all guilty of this. It's an architect of change, you put it in there in an attempt to attract people disillusioned with their current MMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by ag666 View Post
    There's nothing wrong with little grind here and there. It's the amount of grind that irritates people.
    I'd argue that the way the grind is presented makes it MUCH more manageable than grinding mobs would be in say, WoW. But I understand that it comes down to personal opinion.
    Last edited by Xothic; 2012-09-02 at 12:32 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asphyxes View Post
    Taco dinner, movie at my mancave then I'll surprise her with a TCG tabard and tell her I love her.
    Xothic - Prot Paladin - Expired at the end of 5.1, returned start of 5.4, left again. Returned again, left again, returned again. You know how it is.

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