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  1. #61
    Phile I do agree with some of your points, but if you think much about it the actualy gameplay in DayZ is more PvP based, and less PvE based.

    One of the reasons this is the case is the zombie spawn points. Rather than randomly spawning and moving around the map, the zombies only spawn around cities and hunting shacks, and even then they only spawn when you are within a certain vicinity. Hopefully the idea of a persistent world will be better provided by The War Z.

    I do agree that third person should not be limited, as it is simply a more intuitive interface for things like crawling.

    Forsedar, from what I have seen it doesn't look like you have actually played DayZ yet. I would heavily suggest you do. The game is the best PvE that I have ever seen ( Remember I said PvP is more prevelant, and a large focus for many players, but the PvE is AMAZING). I have made 1 friend in the game, and have played some with my brother as well. Whether I am playing solo, with my brother or with a friend the game is amazing. My favorite portion of the game is eluding zombies, and working towards goals that i set for myself.

    These goals can be as simple as finding a box of matches, and god damn if it isn't a whole lot of fun. At one point I played my character as a hunter, found a box of matches, a hunting knife, and a hatchet. I hunted boar for hours, filled my canteen at inland water sources, and lived in the woods, with very little zombie interaction. Eventually i ran to close to a city and died.

    Maybe im one of the few who enjoyed this playstyle, but boy was it alot of fun.

    The only thing that has killed my will to play the game is the hackers, when you aren't hurting anyone and somebody insta kills the entire server it gets really frustrating. But you should truly try DayZ. It worth every penny of the $30.

    The hackers in DayZ are really the main reason im excited about The War Z, or standalone DayZ. Honestly ill probably just buy both. For whatever reason Im really into zombie apocalypse stuff right now, from the walking dead tv series to the walking dead telltale game, and the walking dead graphic novel.
    Last edited by Elgand; 2012-09-10 at 06:06 PM.

  2. #62
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elgand View Post
    Phile I do agree with some of your points, but if you think much about it the actualy gameplay in DayZ is more PvP based, and less PvE based.

    One of the reasons this is the case is the zombie spawn points. Rather than randomly spawning and moving around the map, the zombies only spawn around cities and hunting shacks, and even then they only spawn when you are within a certain vicinity. Hopefully the idea of a persistent world will be better provided by The War Z.
    This is just the way Arma2 handles spawning to reduce server stress, DayZ was never part of its initial design. Ill see if I can find it but I do believe Rockets plan for the standalone does involve roaming hordes and a far more intuitive spawn system compared to what we have now. With that being said it really doesnt make the game more PvP orientated, the players are what does that which the players will end up doing the same in War Z, its human nature. In fact, if players could successfully PvP in campaign of L4D they would.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    This is just the way Arma2 handles spawning to reduce server stress, DayZ was never part of its initial design. Ill see if I can find it but I do believe Rockets plan for the standalone does involve roaming hordes and a far more intuitive spawn system compared to what we have now. With that being said it really doesnt make the game more PvP orientated, the players are what does that which the players will end up doing the same in War Z, its human nature. In fact, if players could successfully PvP in campaign of L4D they would.
    I agree with your point, and that is why previously in the thread i suggested consequences on the players that PvP. Rocket tried with the bandit skin, and the humanity gauge ( Which i still don't fully understand). I would like if these kind of things were addressed with real world consequences, rather than some random punishment that makes no sense. A 24 hour ban is a punishment that really doesn't fit the bill, but I also understand why they are trying it as a method of de-incentivizing PvP.

    Personally I feel PTSD although a rough topic for many, would be the best way to make PvP a rare occurance. Lets say if you kill one person you are sick to your stomach, and can't eat for 2 hours. If you kill two people in a 24 hour period you begin to shake, not violently like DayZ when you need painkillers, but a nervous shake. Now if you kill 5+ people in a 48 hour period you begin to see serious PTSD symptoms, up to and finally including debilitating hallucinations, that can kills you if you don't defend yourself

    A single man in a city with no zombies around could have a hallucination of 5 zombies, and put himself in serious harms way because of the gunfire, etc etc.

    I know i am probably dreaming that this would be implemented, but it seems to be the repurcussions for killing in RL, and the more realistic it is the better imho.

  4. #64
    I thought the result of you killing other players put a bounty on your head basically... making it next to impossible for people to trust you and more of a target.

  5. #65
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elgand View Post
    I agree with your point, and that is why previously in the thread i suggested consequences on the players that PvP. Rocket tried with the bandit skin, and the humanity gauge ( Which i still don't fully understand). I would like if these kind of things were addressed with real world consequences, rather than some random punishment that makes no sense. A 24 hour ban is a punishment that really doesn't fit the bill, but I also understand why they are trying it as a method of de-incentivizing PvP.

    Personally I feel PTSD although a rough topic for many, would be the best way to make PvP a rare occurance. Lets say if you kill one person you are sick to your stomach, and can't eat for 2 hours. If you kill two people in a 24 hour period you begin to shake, not violently like DayZ when you need painkillers, but a nervous shake. Now if you kill 5+ people in a 48 hour period you begin to see serious PTSD symptoms, up to and finally including debilitating hallucinations, that can kills you if you don't defend yourself

    A single man in a city with no zombies around could have a hallucination of 5 zombies, and put himself in serious harms way because of the gunfire, etc etc.

    I know i am probably dreaming that this would be implemented, but it seems to be the repurcussions for killing in RL, and the more realistic it is the better imho.
    The only problem with this is that some people, believe it or not, will not get PTSD from killing someone so if a player wants to be a murdering bastard they have to deal with a system that doesnt really work for their vision of their character. To give this game a realistic feel you need to let people play how they want. What they need is to stop looking at consequences for being a bandit and start adding incentives to NOT be a bandit that aren't trivial. Give people a real reason to not shoot on site instead of attempting to punish that style of game play. Right now, and with most games, the consequences are never really that big of a deal.

    Maybe they should make armor that only survivors with good morality can wear. This would make survivors stronger against zombies and bandits and bandits weaker against survivors with high humanity (or what ever, just using that term since its relevant). This would give you an incentive in both PvE and PvP to not be a murderer while not destroying the "bandit" play style if you want to go that route. Bandits would be just as strong as a normal player without the armor, so its not a handicap, but will provide a slight advantage for players that keep their humanity in check. Bandits will still hide in the hills and attempt to snipe people, but they will think twice about trying to start a fight in closer ranges.
    Last edited by philefluxx; 2012-09-10 at 07:50 PM.

  6. #66
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
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    WOuld they have pve servers you think? I despise world PvP with a passion ganking and griefing is mostly what happens.

  7. #67
    Take pvp away and the point of the game goes away.
    They said zombies will be slow and have poor eye sight. So... I see 2 weeks of fun play on PVE servers. There is no adrenalin rush or anything.
    Unless you go ... All out terminator on zombies, take the biggest gun and start shooting at everything that moves.
    + What will keep you going once you have enough food and drinks?
    You can't die to zombies unless you are really careless anyway...
    Last edited by Epialt; 2012-09-11 at 12:16 PM.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    The only problem with this is that some people, believe it or not, will not get PTSD from killing someone so if a player wants to be a murdering bastard they have to deal with a system that doesnt really work for their vision of their character. To give this game a realistic feel you need to let people play how they want. What they need is to stop looking at consequences for being a bandit and start adding incentives to NOT be a bandit that aren't trivial. Give people a real reason to not shoot on site instead of attempting to punish that style of game play. Right now, and with most games, the consequences are never really that big of a deal.

    Maybe they should make armor that only survivors with good morality can wear. This would make survivors stronger against zombies and bandits and bandits weaker against survivors with high humanity (or what ever, just using that term since its relevant). This would give you an incentive in both PvE and PvP to not be a murderer while not destroying the "bandit" play style if you want to go that route. Bandits would be just as strong as a normal player without the armor, so its not a handicap, but will provide a slight advantage for players that keep their humanity in check. Bandits will still hide in the hills and attempt to snipe people, but they will think twice about trying to start a fight in closer ranges.
    This is taken as my response to much the same objection on The War Z forums;

    I have no hard proof, but I would venture to guess that those who are truly considered Sociopaths are few and far inbetween, and although many players would like to consider their characters Sociopaths, it makes no sense that the world would be full of them.

    Also, another argument against the statement you made is whether a Sociopath would/does experience hallucinations. They may not be upset by their actions when it comes to their eating habits, or develop a nervous shake, but I don't believe hallucinations are out of the realm of possibility. /endquote

    The ideas I have laid out are not things that will force someone to play one way or another, they are ideas that will discourage one playstyle. It doesn't mean people aren't free to kill on sight, and have no remorse. They just have the deal with the consequences as well. A hallucination of 4 zombies on a random timer can be quite easy to deal with, but it could just be what is necessary to promote a better community than a KOS community.

  9. #69
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epialt View Post
    Take pvp away and the point of the game goes away.
    They said zombies will be slow and have poor eye sight. So... I see 2 weeks of fun play on PVE servers. There is no adrenalin rush or anything.
    Unless you go ... All out terminator on zombies, take the biggest gun and start shooting at everything that moves.
    + What will keep you going once you have enough food and drinks?
    You can't die to zombies unless you are really careless anyway...
    Ill go by what you say I haven't played day z so I'm unaware of the difficulties faced by zombies or players I just hope the penalty for dying to PvP is less than pve

  10. #70
    I've got few friends interested in this game now. I am looking forward to babysit this one particular friend who sucks at every game he plays

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-11 at 10:53 AM ----------

    I didn't get to read their forum much, has this been discussed yet?
    A lot of games are now using the loot system where each players gets their own spawn (think GW2 with ore/vein spawn) so it doesn't take away incentive to play with your friends or other people. I wonder if War Z is going to do something like this?
    Last edited by Elenion; 2012-09-11 at 02:54 PM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Ill go by what you say I haven't played day z so I'm unaware of the difficulties faced by zombies or players I just hope the penalty for dying to PvP is less than pve
    The "penalty" for dying is the same if a zombie or a player kills you, asume that 1º. What happens in both cases is that your backpack (with everything inside it) will get near your body, ready to be picked for the 1º one that finds it.

  12. #72
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elgand View Post

    The ideas I have laid out are not things that will force someone to play one way or another, they are ideas that will discourage one playstyle.
    This is what I'm saying though, it doesn't work. You cant discourage a play style you need to encourage another play style. Players who wish to run around killing anyone and everyone should not be punished, its their choice and what makes the game diverse. Having the ability to do and act like someone you would never be in real life, namely a bad guy, is far more appealing in a virtual world than being a good guy. Thats just fact because, as you say, most people are not sociopaths. So what needs to happen is something needs to make the "good guy" style of playing more appealing and encouraged over the other. That's the only way it will work.

    Fallout3 did this pretty well. I great example was in the very beginning of the game, you choose whether or not to blow up MegaTon. Should you choose to save the city you get a room where you can rest, store items, receive water very early on in the game. Should you choose to blow it up, you have to wait sometime before you get your player house. The good guy play style is rewarded, but the bad guy play style is not punished. Its just a little easier so it encourages you to save the city.

    Edit: Apparently Rocket might feel the same as me, I did not know this Hero Skin has Kevlar
    Last edited by philefluxx; 2012-09-11 at 05:00 PM.

  13. #73
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoator View Post
    The "penalty" for dying is the same if a zombie or a player kills you, asume that 1º. What happens in both cases is that your backpack (with everything inside it) will get near your body, ready to be picked for the 1º one that finds it.
    yeah I meant in regards to death penalty I done want to be killed by a bunch of pkers and be locked put for a day like if zombies had killed me. I'm still naive to this whole online survivor zombie thing unfortunately.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    This is what I'm saying though, it doesn't work. You cant discourage a play style you need to encourage another play style. Players who wish to run around killing anyone and everyone should not be punished, its their choice and what makes the game diverse. Having the ability to do and act like someone you would never be in real life, namely a bad guy, is far more appealing in a virtual world than being a good guy. Thats just fact because, as you say, most people are not sociopaths. So what needs to happen is something needs to make the "good guy" style of playing more appealing and encouraged over the other. That's the only way it will work.

    Fallout3 did this pretty well. I great example was in the very beginning of the game, you choose whether or not to blow up MegaTon. Should you choose to save the city you get a room where you can rest, store items, receive water very early on in the game. Should you choose to blow it up, you have to wait sometime before you get your player house. The good guy play style is rewarded, but the bad guy play style is not punished. Its just a little easier so it encourages you to save the city.

    Edit: Apparently Rocket might feel the same as me, I did not know this Hero Skin has Kevlar
    See, although we are on the opposite side of the spectrum in how to fix this issue, the entire game of DayZ promotes the KOS playstyle. Unless it is a friend you know in real life it is very rare to run into someone who will not shoot you on sight. I see this problem spreading to The War Z, and would like for it to be less widespread.

    This playstyle gets perpetuatied even more when you start finding rare and hard to acquire items, like night vision goggles and thermal weaponry.

    So with everything in the game advertantly or inadvertantly leading to a game where KOS is the norm, rather than promoting a minor playstyle ( Being a hero and not killing enemies ), evening the playing field by deturring the KOS playstyle is a better answer imo.

    I have read more about The War Z, and it appears as though player bounties are going to be introduced. This in and of itself is amazing, and something that I firmly support. Depending on how you look at it, this can be seen as encouraging (For those who want the reputation whether bad or not) and discouraging (Being hunted can be a very bad thing). From what I have read, Bandits will be the ones available for player bounties.

    Also they mentioned that there will be 4 safe zones on the map, 3 of which are meant for survivors in good standing, and 1 intended for bandits. Again this is awesome to hear, and hopefully will detur bandits. However, this is still discouraging that playstyle. Oh, also if a bandit wanders near a survivor camp they will be attacked by the npc's.

  15. #75
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elgand View Post
    I have read more about The War Z, and it appears as though player bounties are going to be introduced. This in and of itself is amazing, and something that I firmly support. Depending on how you look at it, this can be seen as encouraging (For those who want the reputation whether bad or not) and discouraging (Being hunted can be a very bad thing). From what I have read, Bandits will be the ones available for player bounties.

    Also they mentioned that there will be 4 safe zones on the map, 3 of which are meant for survivors in good standing, and 1 intended for bandits. Again this is awesome to hear, and hopefully will detur bandits. However, this is still discouraging that playstyle. Oh, also if a bandit wanders near a survivor camp they will be attacked by the npc's.
    I firmly stand by this idea as long as it works as you said, Bandits should be the only ones allowed to have a bounty placed on their heads. I am part of a clan that supports anti-banditry and we have hunting parties, some of these guys are like trackers man its crazy to see in a video game.

    However, I disagree with "safe zones". Safe zones should be built and made safe only by the players willing to keep it safe. These safe hubs are just going to turn into a firing rage for bandit snipers and anti-bandit snipers looking for points. Unless they somehow make it so these safe zones move around, maybe like a traveling circus or something so that players cant always depend on where they will be.

  16. #76
    Herald of the Titans Waaldo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philefluxx View Post
    This is what I'm saying though, it doesn't work. You cant discourage a play style you need to encourage another play style. Players who wish to run around killing anyone and everyone should not be punished, its their choice and what makes the game diverse. Having the ability to do and act like someone you would never be in real life, namely a bad guy, is far more appealing in a virtual world than being a good guy. Thats just fact because, as you say, most people are not sociopaths. So what needs to happen is something needs to make the "good guy" style of playing more appealing and encouraged over the other. That's the only way it will work.

    Fallout3 did this pretty well. I great example was in the very beginning of the game, you choose whether or not to blow up MegaTon. Should you choose to save the city you get a room where you can rest, store items, receive water very early on in the game. Should you choose to blow it up, you have to wait sometime before you get your player house. The good guy play style is rewarded, but the bad guy play style is not punished. Its just a little easier so it encourages you to save the city.

    Edit: Apparently Rocket might feel the same as me, I did not know this Hero Skin has Kevlar
    The War Z isn't supposed to be a 'do what every you want' zombie game.
    It's a survival zombie game. They made it so that being a bandit is bad, just like it would be in real life. If that doesn't cater to a certain group of people there is nothing they can do about it. I like it that way. If I wanted to kill/be killed by player I would play BF3, but with this game, I, and a lot of other people, don't want that. We want to live through the zombie apocalypse without there being a real zombie apocalypse, and this game does exactly that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torethyr
    I thought doing the toothpaste-tube-squeeze and vigorous shake was the "traditional" way.

  17. #77
    Time for another update, well, there is none its been silent for the last 3-4 days, however, they did put up a poll that you can vote/checkout in the main post, i do have a feeling that the Alpha/Beta is starting soon, in the meanwhile ( im not updating this into the mainpost ) here are some questions/answers answered by the game creators.

    Question
    Is there goign to be anything done to make it "fair" for us?

    Answer
    What issues make things not fair?

    Question
    Oh sorry, when pre-orders come around i was asying timezone will play a factor on first picks and most likely we would be asleep.

    Answer
    Im not sure how that will be handlet yet. We still have alpha to deal with Lots of things happening/changing around here.

    Question
    Is there goign to be a player limit for the beta?

    Answer
    Most likely, YES. There are lots of little things that will determine yes or no, however.

    Question
    Whats your estimate on the limit?

    Answer
    Nothing that is ready to be discussed right now

    Question
    When can we expect some more gameplay videos or a trailer?

    Answer
    gametrailers.com/videos/ud86tw/the-war-z-exclusive--pax-prime-12--alpha-co-op-gameplay

    Question
    Hows the interactive trailer going? Sorry to bother again, just cant wait!

    Answer
    It's... not finished yet.

    Question
    Are items goign to have the blue outline or was that something for the trailer? if so is there an option to turn it off?

    Answer
    As of right now they will have the blue outline with NO option to turn it off

    Question
    Will there be a 3rd and 1st person mode?

    Answer
    Both, and you can switch on the fly instantly.

    Question
    Sweet! any idea if preorders are soon so i can score those beta keys for my bro and i?

    Answer
    No details to give out on that just yet.

    Question
    Can you aim in 3rd person to?

    Answer
    Yep

    Question
    I seriously need to play this game so if i play with a friend, i can sit in one spot and kill zombies and real players

    Answer
    You might be waiting awhile if you sit in one spot...

    Question
    I know you have answered many questions but i have never heard you say what the starting equipment was.

    Answer
    It changes all the time right now and it will change more before release. So "not sure"

    Last edited by markdead; 2012-09-12 at 10:10 PM.

  18. #78
    Herald of the Titans Waaldo's Avatar
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    Player limit on beta? /die
    I wounder how they are going to deal with the "Preorder now! Get early access to close beta" right on the front page.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torethyr
    I thought doing the toothpaste-tube-squeeze and vigorous shake was the "traditional" way.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Waaldo View Post
    Player limit on beta? /die
    I wounder how they are going to deal with the "Preorder now! Get early access to close beta" right on the front page.
    I'm sure the player limit will slowly increase as they test server strain, etc. So you may STILL get access but the amount of access isn't predetermined.

  20. #80
    Herald of the Titans Waaldo's Avatar
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    A new video posted today. For some reason it is split into 3 parts but here it is:






    When he shot the sniper I actually jumped. I was not expecting it to be so loud.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torethyr
    I thought doing the toothpaste-tube-squeeze and vigorous shake was the "traditional" way.

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