Elemental PvP the red headed stepchild of WoW.

[Endus]

Gives us two seconds to squeeze in a Flame Shock ---> Lava Burst and do any negligible damage since Lightning Bolt hits like a toddler with a wiffle bat. Still I'm quite upset.

You're still assuming there's nothing else that they could possibly want to be dispelling.

If you've got a Mage in your group, and they Dispel a poly, that's 8 seconds of kablooie before they can dispel Flame Shock. THAT's the protection. FS will not be the only or even the most desirable thing to use a dispel on.

[Crovyn]

The thing is this: I was/am actually planning on changing my main to Shaman for MOP, I played it only as twink so far. I never really played shadow Priest but in duels infront of OG I own people with my spriest (edit: while I only have PVE gear on him - premade) while with the Shaman (edit: in PVP gear) its often problematic. I am not a complete PVP noob, I am no pro either, but the difference is obvious. While I can controll the damage and mitigation I do as Spriest it's either not enough (def. cooldowns) or not controllable (burst) as Shaman. Sometimes I completely destroy people and sometimes I feel like I use a water pistol.

(Please no one give me the "the game is not balanced around duels" BS, thank you. I know that, and I am not talking about high end tactics here but about a general feel of the classes so it is legitimate.)

edit:
Alone the fact that I stay alive easier as PVE geared Shadow Priest than as PVP geared Shaman is an indicator that spriest might have better (if not more) defensive tools than Shaman. Both can heal yes, but its the other tools that make the difference.

Shaman is so much more fun though....

[Rorschachs]

The thing is this: I was/am actually planning on changing my main to Shaman for MOP, I played it only as twink so far. I never really played shadow Priest but in duels infront of OG I own people with my spriest (edit: while I only have PVE gear on him - premade) while with the Shaman (edit: in PVP gear) its often problematic. I am not a complete PVP noob, I am no pro either, but the difference is obvious. While I can controll the damage and mitigation I do as Spriest it's either not enough (def. cooldowns) or not controllable (burst) as Shaman. Sometimes I completely destroy people and sometimes I feel like I use a water pistol.

(Please no one give me the "the game is not balanced around duels" BS, thank you. I know that, and I am not talking about high end tactics here but about a general feel of the classes so it is legitimate.)

edit:
Alone the fact that I stay alive easier as PVE geared Shadow Priest than as PVP geared Shaman is an indicator that spriest might have better (if not more) defensive tools than Shaman. Both can heal yes, but its the other tools that make the difference.

Shaman is so much more fun though....

You can survive as a PVE geared shadow more than a lot of pvp geared classes probably. Spriest survivability is over the top.

[Northy]

You're still assuming there's nothing else that they could possibly want to be dispelling.

If you've got a Mage in your group, and they Dispel a poly, that's 8 seconds of kablooie before they can dispel Flame Shock. THAT's the protection. FS will not be the only or even the most desirable thing to use a dispel on.

Truth but I find it odd that they still give other classes like Locks (4 sec silence + damage) and Shadow Priests (4 piece PvP bonus AoE 3 sec fear) dispel protection then.

I play a Shadow Priest and I must say that we are extremely overpowered. Our damage and survivability are simply astounding compared to my Ele Shaman.

[Deleted]

Truth but I find it odd that they still give other classes like Locks (4 sec silence + damage) and Shadow Priests (4 piece PvP bonus AoE 3 sec fear) dispel protection then.

I play a Shadow Priest and I must say that we are extremely overpowered. Our damage and survivability are simply astounding compared to my Ele Shaman.

Those classes are DoT classes, and now that dispels remove everything that protection protects all their DoTs. We only have 1 DoT which on its own doesn't actually do that much damage. Its dispel protection is the fact that there are far more important things to dispel

[Blitond]

We only have 1 DoT which on its own doesn't actually do that much damage. Its dispel protection is the fact that there are far more important things to dispel

Yes, you are correct the DoT doesn't do that much damage. The damage comes from the auto crit from LvB. It's a main aspect of our burst in PvP. You also have to look at its effect on Ascendance in MoP.

I still think the best solution for elemental is this:

When your flame shock is dispelled, the cooldown on your flame shock is reset.

This would have no effect on PvE and give some compensation for PvP when flame shock is dispelled. It's not overpowered and DoT classes still have better dispel protection. The cost of a dispel ultimately results to a lost GCD from the shaman.

[Keiyra]

I still think the best solution for elemental is this:

When your flame shock is dispelled, the cooldown on your flame shock is reset.

This would have no effect on PvE and give some compensation for PvP when flame shock is dispelled. It's not overpowered and DoT classes still have better dispel protection. The cost of a dispel ultimately results to a lost GCD from the shaman.

That's probably a pretty fair solution. Puts them in a similar boat as moonkins who although not a full "dot class", use their dots to trigger burst (starsurge procs) and who also have no dispel protection, but can reapply their dots after being dispelled.

[zenga]

Those classes are DoT classes, and now that dispels remove everything that protection protects all their DoTs. We only have 1 DoT which on its own doesn't actually do that much damage. Its dispel protection is the fact that there are far more important things to dispel

A shadow priest has 2 dots he keeps up and devouring plague which I call more an effect than a dot. But the dots cause procs that are not related to the target (i.e. it doesn't matter on which target they are), whereas flame shock on a target is directly related to lava burst. It's much worse for an elemental shaman to have his flame shock dispelled on a target than it is for a shadow priest. Even more because shocks have a shared cd.

If any class needs dispel protection it's an ele shaman, for the simple reason that a dispeller with good timing can lock down an ele shaman his damage most of the time.

FS will not be the only or even the most desirable thing to use a dispel on.

If you can negate an ele shaman for a large part by dispelling his fs prior to a lava burst, you will worry less about a poly on your teammate.

It's mind-blowing why you ladies even start to argue about something you clearly have no fucking clue about.

Please keep your posts civil and avoid becoming insulting

[Deleted]

A shadow priest has 2 dots he keeps up and devouring plague which I call more an effect than a dot. But the dots cause procs that are not related to the target (i.e. it doesn't matter on which target they are), whereas flame shock on a target is directly related to lava burst. It's much worse for an elemental shaman to have his flame shock dispelled on a target than it is for a shadow priest. Even more because shocks have a shared cd.

If any class needs dispel protection it's an ele shaman, for the simple reason that a dispeller with good timing can lock down an ele shaman his damage most of the time.



If you can negate an ele shaman for a large part by dispelling his fs prior to a lava burst, you will worry less about a poly on your teammate.

It's mind-blowing why you ladies even start to argue about something you clearly have no fucking clue about.

Dispels have an 8 second cooldown, shocks have a 5 second cooldown. Assuming the healer is dispelling on cooldown then yeah, your Flame Shock wont have much uptime and it will nerf your damage. But that means your able to Frost Shock however you want (shorter cooldown than dispel), able to hex whoever you want, your team is able to do whatever they want too. A Shadow Priest on the other hand, you dispel ALL his DoTs in one go, all 3 of them, which shuts down far more of their damage, especially their mobile damage (what often counts far more in PvP). Same with a Warlock.

The dispel game is completely changing. You can't just dispel everything. You dispel that Shaman's flame shock, he will just put it up again in 5 seconds and your opponents will be able to CC whoever they want, all the time. You dispel everything off that target you will massively shut down the damage on that target - thats the point of the 8 second cooldown 'uber dispels'. However, if you mindlessly dispel Flame Shock whenever it comes up you will open yourself up to then opponent CCing you with no counter.

Also, you can DoT up the target you are not attacking for the procs. If your lining up for a kill it would be fairly simple to put Flame Shock on 2 targets, flame shock your primary target last, start your burst and start pumping out those LvB. If your healer chooses to dispel a fairly low damage DoT off a target that isn't even being focused rather than off the target being focused or to choosing to dispel anything else then they are asking to lose because the current focus target will just melt.

To sum up, yes they would shut us down a lot if they chose to use their dispel on cooldown to always remove Flame Shock. However, if they choose to do that they are opening themselves up to other far more painful abilities.

[Blitond]

Dispels have an 8 second cooldown, shocks have a 5 second cooldown. Assuming the healer is dispelling on cooldown then yeah, your Flame Shock wont have much uptime and it will nerf your damage. But that means your able to Frost Shock however you want (shorter cooldown than dispel), able to hex whoever you want, your team is able to do whatever they want too. A Shadow Priest on the other hand, you dispel ALL his DoTs in one go, all 3 of them, which shuts down far more of their damage, especially their mobile damage (what often counts far more in PvP). Same with a Warlock.

Hex isn't a magic effect (or at least it didn't used to be) it's a curse. In some cases this doesn't matter, but in others it does. Not all healers have curse removal, but all have magic.

Also Devouring Plague (at least it used to be) was a plague. Not all healers can dispel this either. The other 2 DoT's you refer to don't have cooldowns associated with them. DP and SW:P are instant, so I don't really follow your "mobile damage" argument.

The dispel game is completely changing. You can't just dispel everything. You dispel that Shaman's flame shock, he will just put it up again in 5 seconds and your opponents will be able to CC whoever they want, all the time. You dispel everything off that target you will massively shut down the damage on that target - thats the point of the 8 second cooldown 'uber dispels'. However, if you mindlessly dispel Flame Shock whenever it comes up you will open yourself up to then opponent CCing you with no counter.

You do make a valid argument here, but one thing you are missing is team composition. If you are in a comp such as ele/rogue/healer (just an example) then they can dispel more freely. Also if their team can't dispel hex anyways, then they have no need to save their dispel for it.

You also can't dispel yourself, aside from a PvP trinket. It's easier to CC healers than their teammates.

Also, you can DoT up the target you are not attacking for the procs. If your lining up for a kill it would be fairly simple to put Flame Shock on 2 targets, flame shock your primary target last, start your burst and start pumping out those LvB. If your healer chooses to dispel a fairly low damage DoT off a target that isn't even being focused rather than off the target being focused or to choosing to dispel anything else then they are asking to lose because the current focus target will just melt.

One of the problems here is shock cooldowns are mutually exclusive (at least they used to be). It's easy to say toss Flame Shock on everyone, but it's a lot harder to do in a PvP setting. You have 3 competing priorities for shocks in PvP as opposed to only 2 in PvE.

To sum up, yes they would shut us down a lot if they chose to use their dispel on cooldown to always remove Flame Shock. However, if they choose to do that they are opening themselves up to other far more painful abilities.

I would be cautious about saying "far more painful abilities". Dispelling Flame Shock reduces SIGNIFICANT damage from Ascendance. I can think of many occasions where it might be preferable to dispel Flame shock and eat a cc (knowing that the elemental can't put out much DPS for at least 5 seconds till his Flame shock cooldown is back up).

I haven't played in a while and haven't kept up fully with changes in 5.0+, which is why I'm unsure of some things.

[zenga]

Dispels have an 8 second cooldown, shocks have a 5 second cooldown. Assuming the healer is dispelling on cooldown then yeah, your Flame Shock wont have much uptime and it will nerf your damage. But that means your able to Frost Shock however you want (shorter cooldown than dispel), able to hex whoever you want, your team is able to do whatever they want too. A Shadow Priest on the other hand, you dispel ALL his DoTs in one go, all 3 of them, which shuts down far more of their damage, especially their mobile damage (what often counts far more in PvP). Same with a Warlock.

A shadow priest going for a burst combo is not gonna care too much if you dispel his dot's or not on the swap target. Since VT & SW:P have no CD it's incredibly easy to have dots up on multiple targets; because dots don't have to be on the (swap) target for the burst. You don't take away their burst damage by dispelling the dots, since a tripple mindspike combo would remove them anyway, unless you get a surge of darkness proc.

Long story short: removing a shadow priest his dots with an 8s dispel cd is just an annoyance. And you don't shut him down whatsoever. Doing the same with a shaman has bigger consequences, since he'll have to reapply flame shock, meaning it's gonna be at least another 5 seconds before he can do a lvb/earth shock combo. Or do you really plan to cast a naked lava burst w/o fs up? Or are you just going to cast earth shock after your fs get dispelled just to dump the stack and then cast some bolts to gain that stack back?

I'm not talking about flame shock dispel during ascendance, since that is a major cd and you can avoid the dispel by making sure that your shocks are available when you pop it, and that fs is already up on the target. It's bad play if your fs gets dispelled and your shock is off cd during ascendance.

The whole point is that an elemental shaman loses a ton of his output when his flame shock gets dispelled, and thus can really use dispel protection. Whereas a shadow priest his dispel protection is just a nice to have, but it does way less for the shadow priest.

[Blitond]

I'm not talking about flame shock dispel during ascendance, since that is a major cd and you can avoid the dispel by making sure that your shocks are available when you pop it, and that fs is already up on the target. It's bad play if your fs gets dispelled and your shock is off cd during ascendance.

Ascendance is a 15 second duration ability. Dispel is 8 second cooldown. You can't avoid it being dispelled 100% of the time. Yes, you can minimize this but not eliminate it.

[zenga]

Ascendance is a 15 second duration ability. Dispel is 8 second cooldown. You can't avoid it being dispelled 100% of the time. Yes, you can minimize this but not eliminate it.

Yeah. I had originally ' ...you can avoid getting screwed up by the dispel by making sure that your shocks are available ...'. Must 've deleted too much after editing it a bit.