Where have all the hardcore players gone?

[Deleted]

Perhaps something to do with the whole Bieber generation? YOLO and other amazing stuff?

People these days don't even know what it means to be hit by this

[MAGAmobile]

You answer your own question : Vanilla and TBC had progression - you had content, it was up to you to go and see it, or not. If you didn't do anything, you wouldn't see anything and wouldn't have anything.
LK and Cata (and MoP is designed the same way, so MoP too) don't have progression : even if you do nothing, the content will be brought up to you in time. The only thing you can achieve is getting it some weeks ahead or not. That's hardly progression.

No surprise here, if you remove progression, you won't interest people interested in progression.

Oh, and to all the idiots talking about "growing up" : maybe it'll be a shock to you, but the entire world isn't a copy-paste of you. Many people were actually already adults with a work and a family when the game was released, and as such they didn't need to "grow up out of being hardcore". Try to see beyond your own navel, thanks, being "hardcore" is not about being a kid (nor it is about spending godawful amount of time or even being good) it's only about being involved and passionate.

People confuse growing up with having more responsibilities, which isn't always the case. Being truly *hardcore* is spending a shit ton of time in a very short time frame to get everything done quickly so you can go back to doing what you were doing before. A lot of people can do that, and a lot of people can not. Those who tend to have less going on in their lives do the former rather easily. Sure, they'll spend less time overall compared to everyone else, but at the expense of the 2-3 weeks of doing almost nothing but playing.

[Akka]

People confuse growing up with having more responsibilities, which isn't always the case.

That has little to do with my point.

Being truly *hardcore* is spending a shit ton of time in a very short time frame to get everything done quickly so you can go back to doing what you were doing before. A lot of people can do that, and a lot of people can not. Those who tend to have less going on in their lives do the former rather easily. Sure, they'll spend less time overall compared to everyone else, but at the expense of the 2-3 weeks of doing almost nothing but playing.

No. Hardcore :

being "hardcore" is not about being a kid (nor it is about spending godawful amount of time or even being good) it's only about being involved and passionate.

[MAGAmobile]

We clearly have different ways of what we define as hardcore. Being involved and passionate is just enjoying the game, which isn't how I would define the term hardcore.

[Deleted]

Seeing typical attitude of those so-called hardcores I'm not surprised Blizz is trying to get rid of them. They just create bad image for WoW with all the bashing, naming and shaming and so on. Bad PR is bad.

[Littleraven]

Have you even read the post? I see lots of people saying that's there is hard content but only few people cleared it. That is EXACTLY what OP is saying, where did all the hardcore people go? Why is there so little of them now that the game is so widespread and so accessible?

My personal opinion (which could be wrong) all the original hardcore players finished high school, college, got jobs and families and now either not playing or casually raiding due to time restrains.

its not that there are less "hardcores"...its just the amount of "non hardcores" far outweighs them now.

[Selenti]

Just what is Blizzard supposed to do exactly to show they care? Should they cater the game to just the guilds that are contending for world firsts and say fuck the other 99.99999% of the playerbase?
The hardcore players have their gear and are now taking it easy as they prepare for the rush to level 90 and the next round of world firsts. As for where they have been for the last few months, the Beta.

Not nerfing the hardest content (heroic raids when there are normal and LFR raiding modes) would be a nice start. That alone drove me away from the game, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. I don't really understand the point of difficulty modes when you achieve the same thing through nerfing all content on a week by week basis. Same thing happened in Diablo 3, and it's just as messed up there.

[Crispin]

Well, they get older, get jobs, family etc.

Ofcourse guilds like Paragon can't run with the same crew they did in Vanilla, you'd be insane to Raid hardcore in WoW for 7 years, either way you'd end up with no real life whatsoever.


WoW is a game, playing it hardcore is fun for a year or 2, and that's about it, you act as if it's a real sport like Soccer.

[GrieverXIII]

Why would they keep playing a game that literally offers no content to them?

[Soulstrike]

Why would they keep playing a game that literally offers no content to them?

are we playing the same game??

oh wait you dont even play them but you are still here.....why??

[Kisho]

Wait until MoP's release. They'll all be back in force then for the world first race.

It's quite natural that they won't be playing at the moment, since they'll have had DS on farm since the first couple months of 4.3. They just won't need to keep playing for the entire patch; they'll be back though. Just wait and see.

[Earthrot]

My deaf, blind grandmother whos paralyzed from the neck down solo'd deathwing the other day.

My cats are farming Rag HC as we speak, two-manning (so to say) it.

Be constructive, don't reduce yourself to spammy answers - Azshira

[Deleted]

Don't believe me? My niece is six and achieved gladiator last season.

My mute, arthritis ridden, quadriplegic monkey was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize last year for his ground-breaking advances in cancer research but he refused to accept the award stating "I'll be playing my double glad retadin in 3v3 that night with my 6 year old 2s partner and her little sister's fiancé".

[Akka]

We clearly have different ways of what we define as hardcore. Being involved and passionate is just enjoying the game, which isn't how I would define the term hardcore.

Being passionate is quite a bit more than just enjoying the game. You can play casually and enjoy the game, but if you starts becoming passionate, you will not just consider it a killtime and you will start to involve yourself in - which is the main difference between a casual and a hardcore.

Because as you have no doubt noticed, it's a bit of the main problem with "casuals" and "hardcores" meanings : about everyone has his own definition of what each one is, and usually a definition that allows him to denigrate the "other side" while showing "his side" in a good light.
This is why I prefer to fall back to the, well, actual definition of the words you can see in the dictionary, rather than the myriads of definitions you can see in the WoW subculture. And the original meaning of "casual" means roughly something you do without paying too much attention, without involving yourself, without taking it really seriously. For a game, that would mean considering it as a way to kill time or to have some light fun.
It has little to do with the AMOUNT of time (you can spend hours playing Solitaire if you're bored, it doesn't mean you invest yourself in it, just that you have lots of time to waste).
It has little to do with the ability (some people are just very talented and can be incredibly good at something even if they don't invest themselves at all in it).
It has little to do with wasting your life (this is a case of being responsible, not being hardcore or casual, I've personnally saw some "casuals" who still did nothing of their life, and the overwhelming majority of "hardcore" I'm acquainted with have good works and a family).
What is has all to do with, is how you consider the subject : is it just a past-time, or is it a strong hobby you really involve yourself in ?
That's the only actual relevant difference.

Well, they get older, get jobs, family etc.

Let me quote myself, as I specifically wrote this part for such posts :

Oh, and to all the idiots talking about "growing up" : maybe it'll be a shock to you, but the entire world isn't a copy-paste of you. Many people were actually already adults with a work and a family when the game was released, and as such they didn't need to "grow up out of being hardcore". Try to see beyond your own navel, thanks, being "hardcore" is not about being a kid (nor it is about spending godawful amount of time or even being good) it's only about being involved and passionate.

Seeing typical attitude of those so-called hardcores I'm not surprised Blizz is trying to get rid of them. They just create bad image for WoW with all the bashing, naming and shaming and so on. Bad PR is bad.

Amusingly, this kind of post is much more offensive than the one it attempts to take a jab at, and funnily enough it's much more common. In other words, from what I see on these forums, self-styled "casuals" are usually much ruder and more insulting than the ones they accuse of having a bad mentality.
Pots and kettles.

[Deleted]

Oh, and to all the idiots talking about "growing up" : maybe it'll be a shock to you, but the entire world isn't a copy-paste of you. Many people were actually already adults with a work and a family when the game was released, and as such they didn't need to "grow up out of being hardcore". Try to see beyond your own navel, thanks, being "hardcore" is not about being a kid (nor it is about spending godawful amount of time or even being good) it's only about being involved and passionate.

You have no more of a magic mirror about this than the people who've said "growing up" so try not to pretend that your answer is the only answer.

[Djuntas]

They sure aint gone, but they are less now days, and that will continue in MOP I bet.

How many of the sub 1k world ranked players there exsist however...thats a good number If we see that dwindling inn to, it sure is to blame cause of shitty content.

[Pull My Finger]

Oh, and to all the idiots talking about "growing up" : maybe it'll be a shock to you, but the entire world isn't a copy-paste of you. Many people were actually already adults with a work and a family when the game was released, and as such they didn't need to "grow up out of being hardcore". Try to see beyond your own navel, thanks, being "hardcore" is not about being a kid (nor it is about spending godawful amount of time or even being good) it's only about being involved and passionate.

Oh, OK, so you still didn't grow up?

Post constructively, we don't need to bash each other -Azshira

[vizzle]

They always said they want to bring the exiting experience of raids to as many people as possible. So - no - they never just catered only to the "hardcores"

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/...ards-Rob-Pardo

With raids like Naxx and Sunwell, I don't think so. Even if that was their intent, that's not what they did.

[GrieverXIII]

are we playing the same game??

oh wait you dont even play them but you are still here.....why??

Assuming i understand your random rambling that barely make any sense.

I play the game.
Who said i considered myself hardcore? I raided 6-9 hours a week killed H:Madness in March, its far from Hardcore and my kill date is nothing special. I didn't want to invest myself in PvE more anyway, there's no reason to, i prefer PvP for competitivity.
I'm still here because i like my guild and i like pvp.

This game literally offers no incentive for dedicated players to keep playing it if they're strictly PvE. The only way to "stand out", wich is the goal of anyone investing himself in any kind of interactive activities, is via 3rd party websites/tools such as World of Logs rankings and Raidbots percentiles. Being a high end raider literally offers nothing in the game at the moment, and prolly won't ever offer anything again. So, this is why i consider hardcore raiders have no content left for them.

---------- Post added 2012-09-03 at 11:22 AM ----------

With raids like Naxx and Sunwell, I don't think so. Even if that was their intent, that's not what they did.

Biggest problem with Naxx was that it was current for only a very very small amount of time. A fraction of the time ICC or DS were out. With Sunwell they just way over-estimated the playerbase imo.

[Akka]

You have no more of a magic mirror about this than the people who've said "growing up" so try not to pretend that your answer is the only answer.

Where was this "let's not put people into box" mentality when all the idiots were spamming the same "hardcore have grow up" ? Are you affected by selective reading, or are you just affected by selective targeting ?

Anyway, my point was simply that plenty of people were already adults with responsabilities when starting to play WoW, and as such they didn't had to "grow up out of it", as they were already grown up to begin with.

(oh, and to whoever wants to make a smartass comment instead of actually going for the relevant point : yes you can grow up even after becoming an adult, but that's obviously a very different level of growth than the one we see in this preconception ; don't play dumb, thanks)