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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Auxis's Avatar
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    WoW questing pattern vs. GW2 Heart Quest pattern

    My friend and I were having a rather... um, "unsavoury" discussiong the other night. We both play GW2, but he quit WoW middway through TBC whereas I still play it. The discussion was about the Questing Pattern in WoW - ya know, youll get like 2 or 3 quests for a little area, and you kill 10 <Insert mob>, collect 5 <Insert item>, and perform 3 <Insert comedic/vanity acts (maybe like free 3 prisoners or something)> .

    And it came to my realization that the Heart quests in GW2 are begginning to blur into the same repetitive actions as the WoW quests are. I've completed the entire Asura starting zone (1-15 zone), and I can only assume that the Heart quests wont be able to vary much further from the pattern they already have, given that you can right click an object, kill adds, or revive NPCs. I know, you can do whatever mix of things you want to in the Hearts, but their still pretty repetitive in my mind.

    Do you think GW2 Heart Quests are repetitive, or do they actually somehow become more varied at higher levels?
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  2. #2
    The Patient
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    I have a lvl 42 asura engineer, and yes it does feel very grindy, almost to the point I cba anymore..

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Shadzta's Avatar
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    yes i agree that the heart quests are just a disguised very well disguised at that, version of the traditional MMO's questing...what makes it different and awesome is that its not your primary source of experience gain...events are, and further more as I learn the ways of the gw2. Most of the time you dont even have to acknowledge the heart being there...just interact with the world through events listening to npcs reacting to whats happening in front of you and they just fill themselves.
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  4. #4
    The Lightbringer Auxis's Avatar
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    I think i probably should have posted this in the GW2 forums, given alot of people over there probably would have quit WoW. Sorry :\
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  5. #5
    I am Murloc! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    Yes, they are repetitive. That's why I don't focus hearts. I gather, I do events within the hearts but I won't do the "Collect berries for that human over there" or "Gather loose stuff, turn it in to the Jotun and then trade what you got from the Jotun with that person over there!"-stuff. So far I can't say the actual questing feels very different except for how you "pick it up", meaning it's automatic as you enter the area.

    There's only so much you can do really with games, and GW2 has done so that you can do many different things (but in the end the same) for each heartperson without picking up quests...that's all. I've stomped bee hives, gathered rabbits, revived npcs and fought off enemies for hearts in 6 zones now and my new approach feels a lot less repetitive. Heck, I even spent 1 day going looking for juvenile pets and I gained 4 levels doing so.

    Stopped playing for a while now though, hoping when I come back that the ranger pets will have been properly polishes.
    Last edited by Rorcanna; 2012-09-02 at 10:50 AM.

  6. #6
    The Lightbringer Auxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadzta View Post
    yes i agree that the heart quests are just a disguised very well disguised at that, version of the traditional MMO's questing...what makes it different and awesome is that its not your primary source of experience gain...events are, and further more as I learn the ways of the gw2. Most of the time you dont even have to acknowledge the heart being there...just interact with the world through events listening to npcs reacting to whats happening in front of you and they just fill themselves.
    Yes, although I sort of get this feeling that Events and Karma vendors are just a simplified version of WoW's dungeoning, especially the chain events that lead to a boss and a chest. They are fun, however, due to the interaction with the communinty and world, i must admit.
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  7. #7
    Warchief Skorpionss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    My friend and I were having a rather... um, "unsavoury" discussiong the other night. We both play GW2, but he quit WoW middway through TBC whereas I still play it. The discussion was about the Questing Pattern in WoW - ya know, youll get like 2 or 3 quests for a little area, and you kill 10 <Insert mob>, collect 5 <Insert item>, and perform 3 <Insert comedic/vanity acts (maybe like free 3 prisoners or something)> .

    And it came to my realization that the Heart quests in GW2 are begginning to blur into the same repetitive actions as the WoW quests are. I've completed the entire Asura starting zone (1-15 zone), and I can only assume that the Heart quests wont be able to vary much further from the pattern they already have, given that you can right click an object, kill adds, or revive NPCs. I know, you can do whatever mix of things you want to in the Hearts, but their still pretty repetitive in my mind.

    Do you think GW2 Heart Quests are repetitive, or do they actually somehow become more varied at higher levels?
    Man wow is like simpsons in this regard... they already did everything... well almost... to me the lvling in gw2 seems just like in wow except that the zones aren't lvl restricted? (in wow terms u could go to twilight highlands at lvl 10) ... the "quests' are basically the same... if not even more repetitive than in wow... coz in wow u have a lot of unique(sort of) quests like the Plants vs zombie one or the plane chase in uldum or the plane ride in sholazar or the giant ride in sholazar etc ... I don't really care what any1 says but in terms of mechanics wow has the most fleshed out quests ....

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    I don't really care what any1 says but in terms of mechanics wow has the most fleshed out quests ....
    Agreed, although the truffle finding quest in GW2 was fun. Overall though I like that the quests in WoW are organized, you get a text you can read and you then go do the things in your own time, often stumbling across questlines that are much fun and gives you story such as Lilian Voss, battle for Andorhal and so on. If they can just cut back on dedicating entire zones to movie/TV themes I'd be a happy camper.
    Last edited by Rorcanna; 2012-09-02 at 10:56 AM.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome SkyBlueAri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    Man wow is like simpsons in this regard... they already did everything... well almost... to me the lvling in gw2 seems just like in wow except that the zones aren't lvl restricted? (in wow terms u could go to twilight highlands at lvl 10) ... the "quests' are basically the same... if not even more repetitive than in wow... coz in wow u have a lot of unique(sort of) quests like the Plants vs zombie one or the plane chase in uldum or the plane ride in sholazar or the giant ride in sholazar etc ... I don't really care what any1 says but in terms of mechanics wow has the most fleshed out quests ....
    Sorry just to correct you in your simile there: In Guild Wars 2 you cant scale up your level like you implied in the brackets ^^. You can only scale down.
    Ive played to level 30 in Guild Wars 2 and whilst the method of completing quests is the same as wow - fix this find this kill this escort this - you feel the story line going on around you. You see "oh these friendly ppl are being attacked by these not friendly ppl" and choose to help them out or not. In wow the world isnt alive around you even if you're not there. In Guild Wars 2 the world is alive. Not to mention you have to go looking for the quests in Guild Wars 2 whilst in WoW you just pick them up from a board that tells you to go somewhere.
    Last edited by SkyBlueAri; 2012-09-02 at 11:00 AM.
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  10. #10
    The Lightbringer Auxis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBlueAri View Post
    Sorry just to correct you in your simile there: In Guild Wars 2 you cant scale up your level like you implied in the brackets ^^. You can only scale down.
    Ive played to level 30 in Guild Wars 2 and whilst the method of completing quests is the same as wow - fix this find this kill this escort this - you feel the story line going on around you. You see "oh these friendly ppl are being attacked by these not friendly ppl" and choose to help them out or not. In wow the world isnt alive around you even if you're not there. In Guild Wars 2 the world is alive. Not to mention you have to go looking for the quests in Guild Wars 2 whilst in WoW you just pick them up from a board that tells you to go somewhere.
    So you mean, like you make your own story (or as the norn player puts it in the intro, make your own legend) whereas in wow, your fitting a story rather than making one?
    Last edited by Auxis; 2012-09-02 at 11:03 AM.
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  11. #11
    They are definitely repetitive but that's not really an issue. The hearts represent a small percentage of the PvE content in GW, and are mostly just there to give structure and lore to the game rather than provide innovative gameplay. I think it only takes about 20 minutes per zone actually "doing hearts" before they are all done. The real action comes from all the events going on.

    Hearts don't become more varied at higher levels, in fact the Orr 70-75,75-80 and 80 zones at the bottom have no hearts at all

  12. #12
    Dreadlord Icaras's Avatar
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    From the little I've played so far, the heart quests don't seem to have much story. I enter the general are of an empty heart and suddenly with no interaction with anybody, I just start doing things and I'm thanked my somebody I've never met. When I'm done I get exp and some stuff and can leave without ever speaking with the person I'm helping.

    The story quests have some substance to them of course, but not the actual quests. That said, i haven't even left the starter zones in GW2 yet so maybe it'll change.
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  13. #13
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    They're pretty repetitive, they're also one of the main reason I'm putting off buying the game.
    WoW's are simplistic, but at the very least are like bread crumbs in the way they work, not to mention how MoP has made questing a bit more epic with more cinematic shots and voice acting.
    When I did play the GW2 BWE they felt rather repetitive and samey.

    They were exactly what I said they were months ago. Over glorified quests with a different coat of paint.

  14. #14
    i like the WoW quests more then the GW2 heart quest stuff.

    i also prefer that WoW has many small different quest chains, that are often linked too an overall quest chain in a zone (though i agree it sometimes becomes linear).
    where as GW2 the quests feel disjointed, like how many WoW quest used to be.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    My friend and I were having a rather... um, "unsavoury" discussiong the other night. We both play GW2, but he quit WoW middway through TBC whereas I still play it. The discussion was about the Questing Pattern in WoW - ya know, youll get like 2 or 3 quests for a little area, and you kill 10 <Insert mob>, collect 5 <Insert item>, and perform 3 <Insert comedic/vanity acts (maybe like free 3 prisoners or something)> .

    And it came to my realization that the Heart quests in GW2 are begginning to blur into the same repetitive actions as the WoW quests are. I've completed the entire Asura starting zone (1-15 zone), and I can only assume that the Heart quests wont be able to vary much further from the pattern they already have, given that you can right click an object, kill adds, or revive NPCs. I know, you can do whatever mix of things you want to in the Hearts, but their still pretty repetitive in my mind.

    Do you think GW2 Heart Quests are repetitive, or do they actually somehow become more varied at higher levels?
    Interesting thought that. I haven't played GW2 yet, so I wouldn't really know, but I have just a week ago found sort of a review on WoW's quests - here

    http://www.meodia.com/PC-detail/wow-...-quest-design/

    If you're having a discussion about quests and their concept with your friend, I think it's worth a read.

  16. #16
    Yes Hearts are same as WoW quests, except the fact that in WoW, you don't really have any other ways to level aside from that and maybe grinding instance with pugs (but factor in que time, it's not efficient).

    Whereas in GW2, Hearts are only a small portion of the levelling experience, and they completely optional; you can simply explore, do Dynamic events, Personal Story quests, Puzzles, Crafting (they're actually shit-load of exp unlike WoW), WvWvW (again, really good exp unlike the PvP in WoW), and of course theres Dungeons too just like WoW.

    So yes, doing ONE of anything is always repetitive, that's why questing in WoW is repetitive; it's not really the individual quests that are repetitive, just the fact that we have to keep doing them that makes it so. Where as in GW2, you can switch it up really easily, which makes it not repetitive. I can't tell you about the overall game or end game experience, but I can definitely say that Gw2 so far is the most fun I've had while levelling in any MMO

  17. #17
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    The main thing I have in GW2 is that sometimes I run out of hearts. Like, I've done all of the ones in the area, and the ones further away are too high level (I'm only like level 10 or something). So I'm literally left standing there thinking "Okay, what do I do? The event things are too high level, the story quest is too high level, am I supposed to just go grind mobs to level while I wait for an event to happen?" and it doesn't feel very fluid at all. It's one of the worst things about GW2 for me because it's not obvious what you should do, whereas in traditional MMOs like WoW or Rift or SWTOR you have quests that take you to another quest hub. GW2 seems to be do all the heart things, and other than that wait and hope you get an event?
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    The main thing I have in GW2 is that sometimes I run out of hearts. Like, I've done all of the ones in the area, and the ones further away are too high level (I'm only like level 10 or something). So I'm literally left standing there thinking "Okay, what do I do? The event things are too high level, the story quest is too high level, am I supposed to just go grind mobs to level while I wait for an event to happen?" and it doesn't feel very fluid at all. It's one of the worst things about GW2 for me because it's not obvious what you should do, whereas in traditional MMOs like WoW or Rift or SWTOR you have quests that take you to another quest hub. GW2 seems to be do all the heart things, and other than that wait and hope you get an event?
    You know, I've read somewhere an interview with the GW2 guys about that exact problem they had. Well, it wasn't their problem, the players had a problem.

    ArenaNet wanted to create a game where they would let you loose into a world, but the vast majority of the players that tried out the first beta were like ''this makes no sense, what am I supposed to be doing?''. That's the thing they wanted to tackle, MMO players are very very used to following instructions, and ArenaNet tried to nudge them out of that way of thinking so the players come to their own decision where to go and what to do.

    Their argument was something like ''playing (in the sense like we used to play when we were kids) has nothing to do with 'following instructions', it's actually the complete opposite''.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-02 at 03:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Seolla View Post
    Yes Hearts are same as WoW quests, except the fact that in WoW, you don't really have any other ways to level aside from that and maybe grinding instance with pugs (but factor in que time, it's not efficient).

    Whereas in GW2, Hearts are only a small portion of the levelling experience, and they completely optional; you can simply explore, do Dynamic events, Personal Story quests, Puzzles, Crafting (they're actually shit-load of exp unlike WoW), WvWvW (again, really good exp unlike the PvP in WoW), and of course theres Dungeons too just like WoW.

    So yes, doing ONE of anything is always repetitive, that's why questing in WoW is repetitive; it's not really the individual quests that are repetitive, just the fact that we have to keep doing them that makes it so. Where as in GW2, you can switch it up really easily, which makes it not repetitive. I can't tell you about the overall game or end game experience, but I can definitely say that Gw2 so far is the most fun I've had while levelling in any MMO
    You might be completely right about doing only quests being repetitive, but WoW also has exp from gathering herbs and mining, as well as PvP exp (unless they nerfed it). Why hasn't that 'clicked' with WoW? Or is that just because you can't really enter bg's and pvp from level 1, and leveling professions on early levels is very clunky?
    Last edited by Volta; 2012-09-02 at 01:17 PM.

  19. #19
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volta View Post
    You know, I've read somewhere an interview with the GW2 guys about that exact problem they had. Well, it wasn't their problem, the players had a problem.

    ArenaNet wanted to create a game where they would let you loose into a world, but the vast majority of the players that tried out the first beta were like ''this makes no sense, what am I supposed to be doing?''. That's the thing they wanted to tackle, MMO players are very very used to following instructions, and ArenaNet tried to nudge them out of that way of thinking so the players come to their own decision where to go and what to do.

    Their argument was something like ''playing (in the sense like we used to play when we were kids) has nothing to do with 'following instructions', it's actually the complete opposite''.
    That might be it. The funny thing though is that while the games we played as kids had nothing to do with following instructions, the basis for MMORPGs in general, that is tabletop RPGs, were firmly based around that. In D&D unless you're playing some weird campaign you DO have instructions, even if it's as basic as "Find the dragon's lair and kill it" or "Rescue the townsfolk from the slavers". I think that's where ArenaNet dropped the ball, and one of the reasons I think GW2 will fail - an RPG isn't suited to freeform gameplay. If it was GTA Online or something like that, I could see that working, but a traditional fantasy RPG has its roots in a strict plot (the dreaded "railroad"), and GW2 doesn't have that because ArenaNet decided that we needed to be led away from it.
    Last edited by Nobleshield; 2012-09-02 at 01:23 PM.
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  20. #20
    I am Murloc! Rorcanna's Avatar
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    I don't really understand what people mean when they say "the story is going on around you in GW2"...I can honestly say that I don't see more story than I do in WoW if I don't read the quest log...In GW2 it's just the same thing repeating over and over, the Quaggan being attacked over and over even though they send you a thank you saying the Quaggan won't be bothered again...

    I've tried finding story around the Shadow Behemoth, but haven't been able to find much at all. I would have loved to go up to an npc and get a thoroughly written text giving me the information. Am I missing something? I've been standing 5 minutes by npcs but not been given any lore about the swamp and SB.

    I think I much prefer the phasing approach, you see the events once and then when done you're done. You just see the "finished" result. I hope they'll make more use of this in MoP since they're not using the full potential yet, for example in Westfall where the town is STILL burning. I get completely stressed out in GW2 when I spend 5 minutes killing Krait, and then when I come back after going away for 14 minutes the Krait have done 2 raids...

    The thing GW2 has over WoW when it comes to questing in my book is that you can level perfectly fine from just mucking about really, you can level one toon by focusing hearts, one by focusing gathering and exploration and another by doing events. Other than that I don't see any ups with it. If WoW could reward questing through exploration, crafting, questing and dungeoning/PVP equally then it'd be perfect. I would love to level a toon by gathering and crafting to max.
    Last edited by Rorcanna; 2012-09-02 at 02:18 PM.

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