GW2 Questing design, explain how it works please

[Sojou]

So I quit the game, then read what everyone said and went back to give it another go. Now I have a few questions. I have gotten my ele to level 21:

1) Heart quests do not give anything, you'd be getting more exp by gathering and crafting than hearts.

Heart quest hubs give good experience in such that you're getting experience while fulfilling the persons requirements, and then a little something extra after you are complete. Plus, you are unlocking that person as a karma vendor for the possibility of some useful loot.

2) Zones cover a variety of levels 1-15, 15-25 so forth which is great but there is no flow from the low level are to high level areas.

I'm not sure I follow... Various zones are facing specific problems to that area of the world. There's not going to be a continuous flow from beginning to end (if that's what you meant).

3) Quests are dynamic, so to speak. You got here, you don't know this dude, who he is, why he's there or why you should care. it does not connect to the whole dragon story. In fact I don't really know who zaitan (last boss I think) is and why do I care!!

Your personal story is what connects to the dragon, not each individual heart hub quest. These are NPC's having specific problems that require your assistance.

4) People say do the dynamic event. Events are fun, do not get me wrong but there's two problems. Most events can not be solo-ed so your fun is always dependant on others being present.

I'm not sure how this is a bad thing. This is the first MMO to ever encourage group play, while simultaneously making it super simple to accomplish. If you find yourself in a situation where you are alone in an area and a DE pops, just say something. People will come because it's experience and karma.

Also, you have to be pretty close to the dynamic event to get notification that something is going on. So if you were gathering in one end of map and there's an epic event in other end of map that you would have loved to do, there is no way for you to know it's happening.
I am sure people will brush these problems for now but once the new-game rush is over, this will be a giant pain.

You are warned of an event when it's well outside your field of vision. You make this sound like a negative though. The game encourages player exploration. This wasn't a secret prior to launch. Read chat to find out what is happening, I'm sure people are discussing events from time to time when they need help.

5) Quests and events are largely unrewarding compared to crafting or exploration.
Yesterday I spend over 45 minutes fighting this massive giant dude attacking a village. there were only about 6-7 of us. When he died we got no loot and only about 2 bars of Xp at level 20. How can something where I die over 10 times (all gear had disappeared by the time we got the giant down) and takes almost an hour give no reward and piss poor Xp compared to some random discovery I made in the safety of a crafting station?

Sorry you didn't find satisfaction in working with 6-7 other people to defend a village from a boss.

I like the crafting Xp but this is what grinds my gear. When I overcome something so difficult, I want a proper reward. I want some decent looking staff or a shirt or something ffs. All 6-7 of us had all our gear broken by the time the giant died. My repair bill was 2 silver and some copper and the boss gave me only copper. I got the gold medal but it's just a damn medal that's useless to me.
To others this may be fine, to me it's a slap in the face. It's statement by arenanet that we'd rather have you discovering a recipe for a shiny skirt than kill giant monsters after dieing repeatedly.
I like exploration and crafting etc rewards but I want the rewards for fighting giant monsters to be at par with all that. My foremost motivation to play is fighting giant monsters and everything else is second.

If you got the gold medal then you got a large chunk of experience and karma as well. That's the reward. You can't blame Anet because your repair bill was over 2 silver due to you dying too much.

A lot of times after fighting massive monsters that take ages to die and tons of people, you get worse rewards than you get for crafting or a heart quest.

I don't see it that way. It's all part of the optional experience. If you want to rush to max level then you can sit and craft your way through your levels, ignore the events because they "aren't satisfying", and stick to the main road experience grind - then by all means go for it. A lot of other people are enjoying fighting these large monsters that give some experience and karma when it's over. Working with complete strangers to accomplish a single goal of actually participating in the world that we're playing in.

Too many MMO's phase you away from other players and discourage the thought of seeing another person in a zone because suddenly that's competition to get your quest done. THAT'S not fun to me.

6) You do all of the above again at max level??

Honestly, it seems like this game isn't for you. What this game is bringing to the table appears to be the exact opposite of what you find fun.

[lunarpower]

Well at least GW2 has great community, I can tell by this reply. When you can't present a valid counter argument , you tell people to go back to wow even though I hated cata and hate pandaland, you shout insults about 'go back to wow'.
Let me clue you about something though mate, it's every single developers wet dream to make a game that will be as popular as wow. Most of us played it and loved it at different stages of wow's life. Do not bash it. I did not like cata and will not play pandaland but wow brought MMo to mainstream, no one can deny that.

The fact that your banned says a lot. And yay another TBC fanboy. I was just saying the truth. I love that it takes a longer to lvl up in GW2 and the flaws you have presented.

[zaradann]

So from something Fencers said a few replies ago, it is better to just run around the map within your level limits, gather/craft/kill a few random objects till you out level the area? I prefer a quest time line that flows me into areas so I feel like I am getting somewhere. The whole game engine is so overwhelmingly different from what I am used to, just feel really lost.

[Fencers]

So from something Fencers said a few replies ago, it is better to just run around the map within your level limits, gather/craft/kill a few random objects till you out level the area?

Erm, that would be a slow and ineffective way to level.

Being level 10 doesn't mean one is not ready for a level 15-25 area. Level differences are not as hard limiters as in other MMOs. Player skill is a bigger factor.

Natch, players can go wherever they like to visit other zones. Up to you really. I want to stress again, being under the level range of a zone is not a red flag/don not enter sign. Those zones truly only have level ranges displayed so players know what to expect.

The game actually provides incentive for trying to do stuff above your level.

I prefer a quest time line that flows me into areas so I feel like I am getting somewhere. The whole game engine is so overwhelmingly different from what I am used to, just feel really lost.

Likely won't get that in the current version of the game. Guild Wars 2 intends to not provide players with overt direction of a quest journal. Not the style of the game.

[Artorias]

Guild Wars 2 works like this:

1. Explore the world. Just go around and do stuff. If you enjoy exploring and completionist stuff, go for vistas and POIs as well, you get xp and good rewards for 100% in each zone. It's a really beautiful game filled with amazing stories and intricate interactions, you just have to take the time to appreciate it.
2. While you are exploring, you will see lots of things happening around you. It is a very interactive world. If you see an event going on, join in. If an NPC walks up to you (or even if you just hear a conversation going on), stick around and start talking to them, you'll likely start your own event. It's seriously cool how this works, and it makes you feel like you are really making a difference.
3. If you see a heart quest, these are basically just to supplement the rest of the area. They provide a theme for what is going on in that zone and lay down some ground as to what you will be doing. They are basically standard quests which are made easier by dynamic events in the area. Plus each heart quest-giver becomes a 'karma' vendor who basically supplies you with gear based on how much you have helped the people in the area (how much karma you have earned. remember karma isn't actually a currency, it's more of a standing in the community kind of thing).
4. At the beginning of the game you aren't concerned with Zhaitan or anything like that. You will hear much more about him and the 'main story' of the game after reaching level 30 (this is when the personal story REALLY begins, especcially if you get into dungeons). For the first half of the game you are really just developing your character. That's why they call it a PERSONAL story. It really is all about you and the choices you make. If all you want to do is fight dragons... don't worry, you'll get there. :P

Just keep playing, enjoy the world around you, and have fun. That's really all there is to it. There is a lot to do if you just take the time to look around for it. If you really can't find a way to have fun, then hey you only spent $60, I'm sorry the game isn't for you. If all you are looking for is rewards at the end of the quest, and not paying attention to the quest itself, you will not have fun in this game.

---------- Post added 2012-09-22 at 07:13 AM ----------

Erm, that would be a slow and ineffective way to level.

Being level 10 doesn't mean one is not ready for a level 15-25 area. Level differences are not as hard limiters as in other MMOs. Player skill is a bigger factor.

Natch, players can go wherever they like to visit other zones. Up to you really. I want to stress again, being under the level range of a zone is not a red flag/don not enter sign. Those zones truly only have level ranges displayed so players know what to expect.

The game actually provides incentive for trying to do stuff above your level.


Likely won't get that in the current version of the game. Guild Wars 2 intends to not provide players with overt direction of a quest journal. Not the style of the game.

Actually a level 10 will pretty much get wrecked by a level 15 in one-on-one combat. If you can stick with a group you'll usually be find, but those monsters pack a whallop. On that note, it is highly recommended (even by in-game tooltips) to fight monsters higher than your level, just because you get better rewards. I wouldn't go more than 2-3 levels higher though.

[tlacoatl]

hearts are guides, they take you to an area, you can grind them out if you want, but I personally just usually do the DEs in the area, which also usually count towards heart completion.
But hearts are not objectives, or quests or goals in and of themselves, they are a guide to areas to ease you into the game, rather than just having DEs in lower level zones, think of them just pointing out the differnt active areas and use them as that.


There is flow, keep up with your personal story, it will take you smoothly through a levelling path from the start right up to 80.

Story is given by the personal story and by actions, you can speak to people or listen to NPC dialoge or even read books to find out whats going on. You wont get told centurs are attacking a mine, you'll see them actually doing it! The story of a zone is told by actions not text boxes from quests, experience it rather than read about it.

If the giant you are talking about is Kol, learn his very very obvious tells, and move, I've done him yesterday as a guardian in melee and not died once, got downed a couple of times but got up again. to get all gear damaged you must have died a lot try to avoid dmg, you really cant stand and tank stuff. and as for gear, there is some pretty nice gear from crafting and from karma and from cultural vendors, you just have to actively seek it out rather than have it given to you.

[Fencers]

Actually a level 10 will pretty much get wrecked by a level 15 in one-on-one combat

That isn't true.

The highest level mob I was able to kill 1v1 was 11 levels above me in Bloodtide Coast. Can take out packs of mobs 5+ levels above my own level. My sister routinely does this in SFF to farm venom sacs. My husband skips the 15-25 zones on new characters and just does GF because of the easy LA access points. Etc.

And others here have done so too.

[Alsonia]

All in all, I applaud you for trying GW2 again before writing it off. We here in these forums are tired of people trying GW2 for all of an hour (not in your case), declaring they know everything about gaming, stating GW2 sucks and that they're quitting.

I do agree some rewards do seem quite... underwhelming, but then I remind myself that GW2 is more about utilizing your skills that you have available to you, rather than "over gearing content" for satisfaction.

Hope this helped.

This man has it; it has the same risk/reward system as Guild Wars. Except expanded upon; in the sense that you can literally have the best gear in the game at level 5 in the original whereas there is a sense of progression in GW2 gear wise. Guild Wars always was more focused on the mental reward and the experience rather than the physical reward, while some people may not be so excited about not getting a shiny piece of loot to show everyone but I never cared about what people thought of me.

[aikoyamamato]

That isn't true.

The highest level mob I was able to kill 1v1 was 11 levels above me in Bloodtide Coast. Can take out packs of mobs 5+ levels above my own level. My sister routinely does this in SFF to farm venom sacs. My husband skips the 15-25 zones on new characters and just does GF because of the easy LA access points. Etc.

And others here have done so too.

Very true. My leveling strategy was to hit zones 5 levels ahead of me. As a Thief I have so many ways to avoid damage that it really wasn't difficult.

...Unless I pulled two or three mobs.

[Manekk]

Well at least GW2 has great community, I can tell by this reply. When you can't present a valid counter argument , you tell people to go back to wow even though I hated cata and hate pandaland, you shout insults about 'go back to wow'.
Let me clue you about something though mate, it's every single developers wet dream to make a game that will be as popular as wow. Most of us played it and loved it at different stages of wow's life. Do not bash it. I did not like cata and will not play pandaland but wow brought MMo to mainstream, no one can deny that.

I agree he could have put it abit better but I can also relate as there is alot of unwarranted bashing on this forum from some very dedicated trolls, his response is probably cause it really sounds like you have trouble knowing what to do without a questlog guiding your path.

The hearts were put in to give abit of structure in the world to let you know were you definetly can go to complete some tasks, I've found it to be completely impossible to aim for a heart without running into atleast some minor event on my way, the game is basically giving you quests wherever you go this way but you are not obligated to complete them by any means if you find a particular one boring or just in yor way then pass it, and don't foget once you completed the heart the NPC will let you purchase gear and sometimes materiels for karma always look what they have sometimes it's good stuff or just something with a particular look you want to transmogrify.

This is how I play the game I set aim for a particular heart or a Vista and decide that is my goal for the moment gathering is something I do along the way aswell as dynamic events and also if you find a dynamic event you liked remember it usually has a follow up, just stop for a moment and observe what the NPCs do and talk about, it actually adds alot of fun realizing how much they do on their own leading up to diffrent events something I think alot of people miss, nothing spectacular or anything just abit of extra fun.

Every now and then you might also run into a secret puzzle, they can be hard to spot unless you pay attention, but once you have discovered one of them you'll learn to always pay attention to the world, find a cave that has some odd platforms along the walls in a subtle yet clear path towards a small hole in the roof? chances are you've found a secret puzzle, try to solve it! you won't get epics but there is a chest with a piece of gear (I think always your level) an achivement and not uncommonly a patch of rare cooking mats with lots of stawberries or whatever it may be, for me personally I don't need any of it the puzzles are so much fun on their own and my favourite thing to discover in the game, the pirate one in Lion's Arch had me laughing out loud while doing it.

Oh and of course do your story quest try not to let yourself outlevel it by too much as the gear reward is level appropriate and you'll miss out on using it if you are too high.

Mix all this with a dungeon, some pvp or crafting and you'll have plenty of fun for a long time without getting tired of anything just don't rush it because there is no need to, you don't have to get top gear for the latest raid, you don't have to do the dailies before the reset etc, do stuff in your own time at your own pace.

Hope this helps.

[theWocky]

Well, whether you "stopped playing" or "quit" is irrelevant. You've paid for it. There is no sub.

Firstly, I will say I feel I already got my money's worth out of the game. I paid $45 for it and even at $60 it would have been worth it.

GW2 is aimed at a different type of mmo'er. Not the new generation. It's for people who get enjoyment playing games with friends.

Firstly, there are at least enough zones to level 2~4 characters and not overlap too much till like level 70'ish.
So, for those that just like different scenery, it's great.
The game is infinitely more fun when you have a RL buddy or guildie or two to play alongside you. Not so much alone - pretty much like most mmo's.

So, there are the hearts to guide you towards Dynamic Events, but these are grind disguised as Events. It's by far not the most grindy game I've ever played.
Zones do tend to stop flowing after a bit. For example, the centaurs suddenly vanished on my human. I may have missed something.

Biggest complaint from people on vent is that it could have been any mmo. It's almost like they just stuck a GW2 nameplate on it. Most die-harders are complaining about lack of lore. I must say that as a newb to the game, except for the personal story, I am a bit puzzled as to exactly the lore is.

I do love exploring though and read every inscription, grave, etc and when I spoke to old GW1 players on vent, they helped with some of the lore. Like Logan's sister, brother etc, but they don't expand on this lore it seems.

The game world is alive. The idle banter, the animations, the little events that occur, the arguments, the jokes, are all amazing.

Regardless, however, the flow on the quests that do have flow are really fun and the landscape, jumping puzzles, vista's to explore, maps to complete offer a path to follow. It's an achiever collector's wet dream this game.

It all boils down to who you have to play with. I have found most guilds unstructured thus far as there is no "end game" and therefore no roster and people (from my experience) seem to be playing it without vent and almost like a single player game. At level 80, people seem to not give a damn about ressing you. Prior to this, when they get XP for doing so, they do. Even though you still actually get xp at 80.

There is no MAX LEVEL. There is no end-game at max level. There is end-game until the game is done.

There is only completion of the game, of the puzzles - and for those that are interested, best exotic gear and also for others, best skins. Personally, I couldn't ask for better gear than my Carrion elementalist gear on my woman. Sexy as hell. I may have deep-rooted metro-sexual tendencies with the amount of time I spend playing with dye's.

There's PvP as well, but I'm not really into this, but it is a nice distraction every now and then.

Unfortunately, it is evident that the OP doesn't "get" what the game is about.

[Deafknight]

So I quit the game, then read what everyone said and went back to give it another go. Now I have a few questions. I have gotten my ele to level 21:

I'd suggest you try another class, contrary to other mmo's elementalist(mages) are a pain to level.

1) Heart quests do not give anything, you'd be getting more exp by gathering and crafting than hearts.

Some hearts are awful, most of em can be done while doing an even in the proximinity though which makes them a great source of exp. Monsterexp+Event+Heart+Reward

2) Zones cover a variety of levels 1-15, 15-25 so forth which is great but there is no flow from the low level are to high level areas.

Leveling flow is a mess, noone tells you where to go next or that you need to play multiple areas of the same level at the same time to get enough exp.
I think they intended the personal quests to be your guide but due to the "freedom" of choice of where to go the flow might lead you where your not supposed to go or should have been a while ago. If you take the time to talk to npcs and listen what they have to say you might just find out (oldschool rpg style). It gets alot better with 60+

3) Quests are dynamic, so to speak. You got here, you don't know this dude, who he is, why he's there or why you should care. it does not connect to the whole dragon story. In fact I don't really know who zaitan (last boss I think) is and why do I care!!

Like in most good story the big bad is not really clear in the beginning, but believe me when i say that if you get to the 50/60+ story quests you will know whats going behind the evil scenes.

4) People say do the dynamic event. Events are fun, do not get me wrong but there's two problems. Most events can not be solo-ed so your fun is always dependant on others being present.
Also, you have to be pretty close to the dynamic event to get notification that something is going on. So if you were gathering in one end of map and there's an epic event in other end of map that you would have loved to do, there is no way for you to know it's happening.
I am sure people will brush these problems for now but once the new-game rush is over, this will be a giant pain.

Even proximity alert has too short of a range, true.

5) Quests and events are largely unrewarding compared to crafting or exploration.
Yesterday I spend over 45 minutes fighting this massive giant dude attacking a village. there were only about 6-7 of us. When he died we got no loot and only about 2 bars of Xp at level 20. How can something where I die over 10 times (all gear had disappeared by the time we got the giant down) and takes almost an hour give no reward and piss poor Xp compared to some random discovery I made in the safety of a crafting station?

I like the crafting Xp but this is what grinds my gear. When I overcome something so difficult, I want a proper reward. I want some decent looking staff or a shirt or something ffs. All 6-7 of us had all our gear broken by the time the giant died. My repair bill was 2 silver and some copper and the boss gave me only copper. I got the gold medal but it's just a damn medal that's useless to me.
To others this may be fine, to me it's a slap in the face. It's statement by arenanet that we'd rather have you discovering a recipe for a shiny skirt than kill giant monsters after dieing repeatedly.
I like exploration and crafting etc rewards but I want the rewards for fighting giant monsters to be at par with all that. My foremost motivation to play is fighting giant monsters and everything else is second.

A lot of times after fighting massive monsters that take ages to die and tons of people, you get worse rewards than you get for crafting or a heart quest.

Some events bug out in how they scale, like your playing with 7 but the giant was tuned to 14 people which is bad.
Big Event Chain Monsters like Dragons etc do give you pretty good loot though, they spawn every 3 hours in most 36+ zones.

6) You do all of the above again at max level??

Max level pve is playing all the dungeons story+explorable modes once or pvp.
Alternatively you can grind your heart out but thats about it.

---------- Post added 2012-09-23 at 10:41 AM ----------

The fact that your banned says a lot. And yay another TBC fanboy. I was just saying the truth. I love that it takes a longer to lvl up in GW2 and the flaws you have presented.

It takes long to level up in gw2 ? Dude people were 80 before the headstart was over.
You love flaws ? bad game design ? defend GW2 at all costs ? May i suggest you pn DrakeWurrum/ VibrantViolet maybe theyll invite you into their club.

[inboundpaper]

You pray you dont get jammed into the overflow, then you do events and hearts.

[Manekk]

@Deafknight you do not have to play several zones of the same level, I cannot explain why you or anyone else had to but I haven't on any of my toons so this is simply false to say that you have to do it, on the contrary I have outleveled every zone I have entered before finishing it without doing multiple ones at the same time.

[Deafknight]

@Deafknight you do not have to play several zones of the same level, I cannot explain why you or anyone else had to but I haven't on any of my toons so this is simply false to say that you have to do it, on the contrary I have outleveled every zone I have entered before finishing it without doing multiple ones at the same time.

Doing a zone => Doing all Hearts / Skillpoints and events on the way.
Randomly scouring the map for events, vistas, poi's is not most peoples cup of tea as well as bad exp.

And even then doing queensdale for example is never ever ever the whole exp for 1-17

[SirRobin]

@Deafknight you do not have to play several zones of the same level, I cannot explain why you or anyone else had to but I haven't on any of my toons so this is simply false to say that you have to do it, on the contrary I have outleveled every zone I have entered before finishing it without doing multiple ones at the same time.

Having a major case of altitus, I've begun skipping stuff I didn't before and now run into being "under level" for the next zone. However, to get that way I skipped crafting, harvesting, and pretty much only do hearts, vistas, pois, and some dynamics. No PvP either of course. So it is possible but I had to skip a lot of content to get that way.

Though I was still only a level or two under. Like level 13 by 100% for ashland.

[volescue]

I don't mean to bash the game but not having a zone-wide announcement for the most epic encounters/events is a bit of a stupid design. How does anet expect us to find find these events?

You start to notice at higher level zones players will call out nearly every single event involving champions or veterans, particularly in the high 70-80 zones when there stops being renown hearts and strictly dynamic events.

If you ever find yourself by an event with no one else, link the waypoint in chat and say the event. That normally will net you at least 2-3 players to complete the event with.

[Moomurr]

I don't mean to bash the game but not having a zone-wide announcement for the most epic encounters/events is a bit of a stupid design. How does anet expect us to find find these events?

They have them on my realm. Some guy goes in /m Event at [Links Way Point] seem to work out pretty well. Just asking in chat will normally get a few way points to choose from.

[Manekk]

Doing a zone => Doing all Hearts / Skillpoints and events on the way.
Randomly scouring the map for events, vistas, poi's is not most peoples cup of tea as well as bad exp.

And even then doing queensdale for example is never ever ever the whole exp for 1-17

So you are saying to deliberately skip half a zone and then move on because you don't like to do the content in them while wondering why you are to low level to move to the next without going to a diffrent starting area?

No offence but you're not thinking very logically here, you can skip some things sure replace them with crafting or more gathering whatever but to say doing everything in a zone and still have to move to another starting area is simply false.

---------- Post added 2012-09-23 at 07:08 PM ----------

Having a major case of altitus, I've begun skipping stuff I didn't before and now run into being "under level" for the next zone. However, to get that way I skipped crafting, harvesting, and pretty much only do hearts, vistas, pois, and some dynamics. No PvP either of course. So it is possible but I had to skip a lot of content to get that way.

Though I was still only a level or two under. Like level 13 by 100% for ashland.

Ok but if someone is not doing the content avalible and haven't leveled enough for the next zone there isn't much to complain about is there, what do they expect to get XP for standing still?

And he said he had done it but it wasn't enough but that is simply not true, if he on the other hand skips too much then that is his problem for being underleveled and he has only himself to blame.

[Hussao]

Your whining attitude is not great neither.

You are thinking about leveling like Athene does when he's trying to get the first 80~85~90 or wtv in WoW.

You can level up faster by many other ways than just questing, that doesn't mean it will be cool. The leveling up system here is awesome, quest, events, more quest etc. Dynamic, don't make me bored.