Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Considering RAID 0 with 2x SSD

    Got my Samsung 830 256GB last week and I am really impressed but I keep worrying about space. With my OS, some programs and 4 games it has used 100GB. I do have a 1TB HDD for all my media and things but it'd be nice being able to put a fair few games on the SSD and not need to delete / reinstall when I want to play. I have a rather large Steam collection and out of that maybe 5 - 10 I would be playing.

    I'm pretty sure that TRIM is enabled for RAID 0 so there's no downside I can see for doing it.

    Good idea? Anyone else done it? Downsides I haven't considered?

  2. #2
    not good with computers
    chaud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    7,116
    Double the chance of failure and some bugs that tend to show up slightly more often with drives in RAID. If you do decide to do it, Intel Application Accelerator should be able to do it without reformatting.
    Last edited by chaud; 2012-09-03 at 04:14 AM.

  3. #3
    What Chaud said. I have 2x 180gb Mushkin Chronos Enhanced in a RAID0 array. They run fast, but it's only a benchmarking epeen fast compared to what is actually useful. I just like the size of one big drive vs having to split two drives or have some games slower than others. I had about 120gb left between the 330gb total Raid0 space and ended up deleting a bunch of steam games to free up more room. I was considering buying another SSD to put it into the raid for more space.

    The downside is only if shit hits the fan, but SSDs now days are very reliable. And as long as you don't keep very important data thats non-recoverable on your Raid array it won't matter to if it fails or not. Just don't put all your financial records for the last 30 years on it.. You might regret that.

    Aveline's amazing work!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmittay View Post
    I'm pretty sure that TRIM is enabled for RAID 0 so there's no downside I can see for doing it.
    It's not. And obvious downside is doubling your chances at disc failure destroying all data.

    Best idea would be that when your current SSD if full, buy another and install the rest of your games there. If it's 2-3 months from now, prices have some time to fall even more in the large SSDs.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  5. #5
    Hrmmmm, ok.

    How about doing a setup like this:
    128GB SSD for OS and programs (this is the one I'll buy)
    256GB SSD for all games (this is the one I already have)
    1TB HDD for all my media and making my temp files written here (also have this one already)

    I think I'll have an abundance of space like that and it'll save me some money.

    Ideas? Thoughts?

  6. #6
    Sounds reasonable. Except that things like browser cache (dunno what you meant with temp files) should be on the first disc where those go by default to get maximum speed benefit out of it. If you meant something like daily torrents, then definitely HDD where speed is not needed.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    Sounds reasonable. Except that things like browser cache (dunno what you meant with temp files) should be on the first disc where those go by default to get maximum speed benefit out of it. If you meant something like daily torrents, then definitely HDD where speed is not needed.
    I dunno, saw some articles about moving your C:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\Temp to a HDD so the SSD won't keep getting written to and save space, and adding some text when you right click Chrome > properties then in the target box makes it also go to your drive of choice for the same reasons. Right now my Chrome data in AppData folder is 1GB and thats just a week of browsing.
    Last edited by Schmittay; 2012-09-03 at 08:38 AM.

  8. #8
    Browser cache gets written when you open new pages for the first time, beyond that very little so it's ideal to keep in SSD to speed up web browsing experience even further. Generally speaking.

    Also how the hell you can get up to 1GB in a week, or does chrome cache all google videos you've watched too?
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  9. #9
    Moving the temp file of your web browser is easy enough as most have that in their options, as for moving the pagefile that can be done as well whether this actually benefits your system seems a little vague as i personally have seen no benefit and have just made it match my actual memory.

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Evildeffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nieuwegein, Netherlands
    Posts
    759
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    It's not. And obvious downside is doubling your chances at disc failure destroying all data.

    Best idea would be that when your current SSD if full, buy another and install the rest of your games there. If it's 2-3 months from now, prices have some time to fall even more in the large SSDs.
    It actually is Vesseblah,

    you require Intel OROM 11.5 (moddable into BIOSes for older gear) and Intel RST 11.2+

    Officially this feature is only availible on Z77 series chips and possibly X79 aswell (hadn't actually managed to find this bit yet), but can be modded to be used also on X58 and older.

    RAID0 is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Evildeffy View Post
    RAID0 is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
    With double failure rate and no real world benefit. It is just as bad as people make it out to be.

    RAID0 makes sense on slow HDDs but there's no percievable speed difference with SSDs.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  12. #12
    Raid 0 with SSDs really isn't worth it for normal use. With double the chance of failure and if one drive fails you loose everything the cons outweigh the pros. Personally I would just keep the drives separate (as you mentioned in post #5).

  13. #13
    Dreadlord Evildeffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nieuwegein, Netherlands
    Posts
    759
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    With double failure rate and no real world benefit. It is just as bad as people make it out to be.

    RAID0 makes sense on slow HDDs but there's no percievable speed difference with SSDs.
    You forget another aspect to it.

    1: Chance of failure.. too low to mention, especially recently
    2: Real world benefit: Space doubling
    3: People might have had another SSD before, now they want to double up, rather then buying an entirely new one of a bigger size, they get another of the same size and move on.
    4: It used to be cheaper to buy and RAID0 2 * 120/128GB drives then take 1 256GB.

    This guy falls in option 1, 2 & 3.

    There is no real world benefit you say, in the same sense there is no real world disadvantage either, especially not for a Samsung 830 which are renowned for their reliability and stability, had TRIM not been availible yet i would agree on these drives that GC is atrocious compared to other brands, but TRIM IS availible.

    RAID0 is not as bad as people make it out to be, i've been running RAID0 on SSDs for well over 3 years now on a vendor that many of these fora believe is the crap of all crap, yet i (and so many others whom i built stuff for and others who built their own) have no issues with the said horrors of RAID0.

    Talking about data reliability of a possible failure though... well people should know that you shouldn't keep sensitive on an SSD, but keep it on several sources other then an SSD, but for games... really? All it takes is a reinstall and time.
    Last edited by Evildeffy; 2012-09-03 at 03:22 PM.

  14. #14
    Titan Synthaxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Rotherham, England/UK
    Posts
    12,986
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    With double failure rate and no real world benefit. It is just as bad as people make it out to be.

    RAID0 makes sense on slow HDDs but there's no percievable speed difference with SSDs.
    RAID0 makes sense with ANY mechanical drive. I run RAID0 on SSD's on the simple basis that the i didn't buy a single large drive in the first place. I eventually expanded it out to 4 drives as the space i needed for high performance applications and games increased but it's certainly not for everyone. In all honesty, i used Boiled to move all my games to my HDD's, but since bought another separate SSD for that purpose (and another one that i dedicate for render caching and such).

    I find people shout too loudly against it and try to drown out those of us who are for it, and those of us who've tried it. As said, it's not for everyone, but then again, if one drive dies, you'd have lost your data regardless of RAID0 or not (unless it was a drive you weren't using). The only true advantage lies in pure read and write speeds and logical drive capacity, but those are beneficial to different people for different reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evildeffy View Post
    There is no real world benefit you say, in the same sense there is no real world disadvantage either, especially not for a Samsung 830 which are renowned for their reliability and stability, had TRIM not been availible yet i would agree on these drives that GC is atrocious compared to other brands, but TRIM IS availible.
    Built-in GC isn't all too terrible these days. Sure, it's not TRIM, but it's not as terrible as it used to be. That's on myth that never got cleared up through the ages of SSD's (it was true at one time, but alas, it is no more).
    Last edited by Synthaxx; 2012-09-03 at 03:27 PM.
    Coder, Gamer - Thoughtcloud | NEW SITE: IOCube| Node.js Monkey | #Error418MasterRace
    Knows: Node.js, JS, JQuery, HTML, CSS, Object Pascal, PHP, WQL/SQL, Ruby

    PC: 750D / 16GB / 256GB + 750GB / GTX780 / 4670K / Z87X-UD4H | Laptop: 8GB / 120GB + 480GB / GTX765M / 4700MQ

  15. #15
    Dreadlord Evildeffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nieuwegein, Netherlands
    Posts
    759
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    RAID0 makes sense with ANY mechanical drive. I run RAID0 on SSD's on the simple basis that the i didn't buy a single large drive in the first place. I eventually expanded it out to 4 drives as the space i needed for high performance applications and games increased but it's certainly not for everyone. In all honesty, i used Boiled to move all my games to my HDD's, but since bought another separate SSD for that purpose (and another one that i dedicate for render caching and such).

    I find people shout too loudly against it and try to drown out those of us who are for it, and those of us who've tried it. As said, it's not for everyone, but then again, if one drive dies, you'd have lost your data regardless of RAID0 or not (unless it was a drive you weren't using). The only true advantage lies in pure read and write speeds and logical drive capacity, but those are beneficial to different people for different reasons.
    Hah! Beat you to it!

    Built-in GC isn't all too terrible these days. Sure, it's not TRIM, but it's not as terrible as it used to be. That's on myth that never got cleared up through the ages of SSD's (it was true at one time, but alas, it is no more).
    I know it's not, but i'm not referring to GC in general, i'm referring to GC on the Samsung 830 drives, according to Anand Tech f.ex. and bits and bobs of info elsewhere (google is your friend) you find out that the 830 has among the worst GC routines, even worse then that of SandForce.
    It was a pure reference to the Samsung drive.
    Last edited by Evildeffy; 2012-09-03 at 04:49 PM.

  16. #16
    Well just to follow up I ended up buying a 128GB Samsung 830 SSD for my OS and programs and I'll use the 256GB one for games and my HDD for everything else.

    RAID 0 while sounding nice has no real world benefit to me.

    Thanks for all of your thoughts and ideas!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    It's not. And obvious downside is doubling your chances at disc failure destroying all data.

    Best idea would be that when your current SSD if full, buy another and install the rest of your games there. If it's 2-3 months from now, prices have some time to fall even more in the large SSDs.

    of course trim is enabled, if he is using an intel board...its been active on raid 0 since intel RST 11.0...there is currently a 11.6 now, so it has been supported for some time...only down side is loosing data if drives die...but since the samsung 830 as one of the best track records of reliability its not a problem

    * User was infracted for playing with the dead threads of yestermonths.
    Last edited by tetrisGOAT; 2012-11-19 at 11:57 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmittay View Post
    Got my Samsung 830 256GB last week and I am really impressed but I keep worrying about space. With my OS, some programs and 4 games it has used 100GB. I do have a 1TB HDD for all my media and things but it'd be nice being able to put a fair few games on the SSD and not need to delete / reinstall when I want to play. I have a rather large Steam collection and out of that maybe 5 - 10 I would be playing.

    I'm pretty sure that TRIM is enabled for RAID 0 so there's no downside I can see for doing it.

    Good idea? Anyone else done it? Downsides I haven't considered?
    Do you often play singleplayer games? As this is the only reasoning to bother putting any game on an SSD outside of wow and its dragging load times. Battlefield 3 you wont be in a MP game b4 anyone else, same with Crysis, COD, ok basically anything multiplayer you will only be able to begin when everyones in basically and with a 7200 rpm drive you'll never be behind being the slow poke. I own an SSD and for windows apps and stuff amazing gaming pft w/e dude it makes me sit and wait anyways.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-18 at 05:10 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by redlock81 View Post
    of course trim is enabled, if he is using an intel board...its been active on raid 0 since intel RST 11.0...there is currently a 11.6 now, so it has been supported for some time...only down side is loosing data if drives die...but since the samsung 830 as one of the best track records of reliability its not a problem
    Only specific boards accept Raid + trim atm, just because something exists doesnt mean its on everything.

  19. #19
    How can I find out if my board supports raid+trim? I have the MSI P67A-GD65

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Evildeffy View Post
    2: Real world benefit: Space doubling
    3: People might have had another SSD before, now they want to double up, rather then buying an entirely new one of a bigger size, they get another of the same size and move on.
    4: It used to be cheaper to buy and RAID0 2 * 120/128GB drives then take 1 256GB.
    2. You can always buy additional hard drives. You do not have to RAID them up to get the SSD benefit.
    3. Still doesn't mean you NEED to RAID.
    4. For most SSDs and virtually all HDDs, it is cheaper to buy higher capacity. When you buy a bunch of tiny drives, you have to pay extra for all the plastic/metal cases that enclose the actual platter/NAND.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •