Holy Paladin Heal Selection: Numbers on Rotations for AoE and Single Target Healing

[Pasture]

i did no calculations yet but imho eternal flame beats SS. when i log in SS gives me a total absorb of 75180.
eternal flame, with no crits but 3hp gives me a total healing of 83037. BUT the hot can crit, the hot scales with mastery and the hot proccs items.
i have 26% mastery so i have an additional shield of 21589. thats 27% of the shield SS will give you.

The problem with EF is that inevitably it will overheal a lot. It's a hot that lasts 30 seconds. Safe to safe your tank will be topped off in this period. SS might heal for slightly less on paper, but in reality, the effective heal is probably more.

[Deleted]

thats true. but who says that the tank will take damage while SS is not on CD? so there is also the possibility to "miss" SS absorbs. or does the shield stack itself up? haven't tried SS yet.

overheal or not, EF wil put a shield of 21589 on the tank. unlike SS this will be 100% effective. the base heal of a 3hp EF is 38355. this heal should have a very low overheal rate or you are doing something wrong.
so combined you have a, i am optimistic, 100% effective heal of 59944. 80% of the amount that SS will absorb.
AND now you have the chance to gain adition heal of the hot and like i said, the hot also proccs items.

and i don't realy know how SS shield scales. it has breakpoints but i am unable to find any numbers. 10% is definetly one. bevore 10% it goes down and then suddenly rises from 27s to 32s. but in mop haste won't be a top stat like it used to be in cata, so reaching those breakpoints could be quite ineffective. don't know.

edit says:
very important imho:
SS can only be active on one target at a time!
i can throw out as much EF's as i can, multiplying the effekt of this talent. and beating SS easily

the main question you should ask yourself is: can your tank die, or has your tanke died, because of that missing SS? if not, the choice of this tier is easy, imho.

edit again:
alright i made a mistake. comparing SS and EF this way is wrong.
WoG itself heals for those 38355, and puts a shiled on the tank of ~10k.
so the gain of this talent is much less.

the hot of EF will heal for 44682 (noncrit,3hp) and adds a shield of 11616. those are the correct numbers you have to compare SS with.
now the choice is more difficult. you will have to look at your logs and find out how much overheal you have.
but again. the main question from above is still valid, and like mentioned the hot can crit, proccs stuff and can be apllied multiple times!

[Dubalicious]

and can anyone explain how the time SS lasts is calculated?

I'll give you a short, non-mathy explanation =)

Every bit of additional haste will either change (1) how many ticks you get OR (2) how long between ticks. So starting out you have 10 ticks of SS, add a little haste and those ticks occur more frequently, but you still only get 10, so the overall duration is decreased. Once you reach the breakpoint for the 11th tick the duration will INCREASE because of that added tick in the equation.

So if you see a large jump in duration, you will likely see a decrease in how often it ticks (which is a good thing)

As for Eternal Flame, my biggest issue is that it still doesn't beat out LoD in 25 mans very often =(

[Nedralixx]

It's a somewhat easy choice. Sacred shield provides a solid tank shield while giving you the versatility to spend your HP more effectively. Eternal flame (if we assume that the tank is getting hammered hard) will do a better single target heal but we're spending 3 HP, when we could use it for LoD. You're narrowing down your thinking too much by examining those 2 talents strictly from a single target tank healing perspective. For now, Eternal Flame seems the better choice for single targeted damage fights, whereas Sacred Shield would be a better choice for AoE fights.

I aknowledge that there can be a mathematical explanation for this debate but in most times, mathematics don't raid

[bouchbagfett]

and can anyone explain how the time SS lasts is calculated? if i put of my gloves with +50haste enchant i lose about 5s.
if i unequip nearly every haste item i have, i lose about 4.5% haste and lose only 4s of the SS duration...wtf?!^^

Haste reduces the duration of the Sacred Shield but it also makes the shield tick faster. Basically SS has a set amount of ticks and haste makes the ticks happen faster at the expense of a shorter duration.

Edit: Above is wrong. I have fixed it in a couple posts below.

[Deleted]

i should have mentioned i am only raiding 10man. so LoD is not always the number one choice. to use the maximum heal LoD provides we have to group, especially because its range has been "nerved" to a 15m radius, you can't just throw it to the melees and hit 3 targets(glyphed).
we'll see what happens wenn mop launches. now im just gathering infos and ideas

does anyone know the exact breakpoints for SS? haven't found anything on the net. the first one is around 10.5% ->32.5s
i only have gear up to 22% haste and still nothing happens. so where is the next breakpoint? if the breakpoint is somewhere near 25% like the one for the eternal flame, it would be pretty hard to reach simply because hate haste hase become such a bad stat compared to mastery.

[Dubalicious]

does anyone know the exact breakpoints for SS? haven't found anything on the net. the first one is around 10.5% ->32.5s
i only have gear up to 22% haste and still nothing happens. so where is the next breakpoint? if the breakpoint is somewhere near 25% like the one for the eternal flame, it would be pretty hard to reach simply because hate haste hase become such a bad stat compared to mastery.

Even worse! It's at 30%. Even MORE worse, the next additional ticks are at 40% & 50%.

[bouchbagfett]

does anyone know the exact breakpoints for SS?

I ran the numbers on Sacred Shield and figured out how it is working. Quick Answer is it gets as many ticks as it can in in the 30 seconds but can "fluff" the duration by +/- half a tick. This is why some of our SS's are more than 30 seconds and some are less. Here is the chart:



I should probably make this it's own thread. My whole blog on this topic is here: http://fullspectrumholypally.wordpress.com/

---------- Post added 2012-09-06 at 08:53 PM ----------

to use the maximum heal LoD provides we have to group, especially because its range has been "nerved" to a 15m radius

Range on LoD is 30 yards.

[silverhatred]

You should simulate aoe healing rotations involving CS. I use CS all the time due to LoD being crazy good with divine purpose.

[Pasture]

You should simulate aoe healing rotations involving CS. I use CS all the time due to LoD being crazy good with divine purpose.

CS costs as much as Holy Shock now pretty much. It's not worth using.

[Guyon]

Very nice math there

[silverhatred]

CS costs as much as Holy Shock now pretty much. It's not worth using.

Its statements like this that make me want to punch babies.

Before I begin on my mini-rant let me just tell you that this is from a 10m perspective and I am assuming that the holy radiance overheal and hpm issues aren't as prevalent in 25m so CS'ing possibly breaks even hpm-wise in 25m.

The issue is that 2 HR's may not be completely necessary for the incoming damage and next to useless if people aren't stacked. Granted the new 50% to each nearby on holy radiance is better in non-stacked scenarios as well as the 100% additional spread across all nearby holy shock targets (both 10yrd radius) is very nice indeed. But that doesn't guarantee that the actual people needing heals are near them nor does the heal prioritize those who need heals like light of dawn does regardless of everybody stacking or not. Holy shock and holy radiance will always have 2-4x more overhealing on their aoe portions (they do in all my logs and I use HR sparingly at that) and holy radiance's hpm goes south in a hurry once people are spread out at all.

The beauty of CS is that you still regen mana while using it, and using just CS and HS keeps you mana-neutral in my gear (full int gemmed) and no buffs/mana cds. It also makes divine purpose amazing. Over the course of my madness parse the other night I gained 60 holy power from CS (which means approximately 15 additional due to divine purpose. By choosing CS over any casted spell you get 1 melee hit in and 2 if you use HS afterward or wait a split second before casting again. Every melee attack is 800 mana. This means that every CS is not actually 3k mana but 1400-2200 mana when used correctly.

Before you shove numbers into my face on how CS is not near as good as I think it is let me first tell you that I do not think CS will outshine the alternate rotation already suggested but provides a more mana-efficient route to aoe healing as well as more LoD's per minute. In addition, if you know how to use it, you can use CS and HS to quickly pool up 5 holy power for an anticipated burst of damage: something that simulations and math cannot account for. Using a standard HR > CS > HS > LoD allows for a good distribution of daybreak buffs as well as adding in a more single-target heal in between 2 strong aoe heals. Under any cds CS'ing loses value considerably but with how I outlined cs to be used you probably shouldn't have used cds if you are in a situation benefiting cs usage.

If this goes against your playstyle and you don't naturally go to melee and get more heals from casting single target spells then cs'ing as often as I do probably won't suit you as much. But to throw it out completely as to not even do the math on it while doing the math on a FL-FL-FL-WoG is outrageous.

tl;dr: cs isn't as bad as everyone says it is and smart healers can benefit