1. #1

    Thoughts on the Core Abilities Tab?

    So now that it is on live and everyone can see it for themselves, and had some time to mess around with the changes, what do you all think of the Core Abilities tab? Is it accurate and do you think it'll actually help people new to being a Priest?

    Here's a picture of the shadow one:


    It seems pretty accurate in a very basic way. I am also wondering if the Holy and Disc ones are at all accurate/helpful as well. Keep in mind I haven't been a raid healer since early Wrath, and the concept of something like this for a healing spec seems like it wouldn't work very well at all because to me healing was very much a "feel" sort of thing and I felt like I was constantly making a lot of judgement calls on what ability to use when.

    If you guys do think they are helpful, how do you feel about it being in game?

  2. #2
    I'd guess for DPS specs this can be really helpful, because it's easier to prioritize spells then for healing or tanking.
    I have no idea IF they are accurate though.

  3. #3
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    I think priest is the one that is the most accurate and if you follow that you will do quite good dps, not super, but better than if you didn't read it. Then when I look through my alts that I have a somewhat idea what they should do and such it gets bit messy.

    I like the idea in general but you need a bit more information than that really to make it work for other classes.

  4. #4
    It's a question of who is looking at the screen.

    For me as someone who likes playing a spec to as close to it's best ability as I can, it's completely, entirely, utterly, fully, useless, and I haven't actually looked at the page ever since I first saw it in Beta, and said to myself "Hey, that's kind of neat for new WoW players I guess".

    Which is exactly what it is. It's meant for someone who doesn't have the built-in instinct that a more seasoned (Not necessarily very seasoned) player has, as to what abilities make sense for what situation. I.e. brand new players, or perhaps someone who has somehow played so few classes throughout their time that they have no idea how the class in question functions.

    And for that, it's good. Following the tips on that page, and then learning how they actually respond in reality, a new player will be able to do good enough.

    Good enough is a far cry from "good", but players don't need to do "good" to enjoy, or at all, play, this game. And I think that's fine.


    TL;DR - a nice addition. However, most people who care enough to ask the question above, won't benefit from it, as I think by the time that question pops into your head "Is this accurate?" they have moved on to a new level, so to speak. And I don't think it's the job of the game, or Blizzard, to put that much information in the game, to the point where someone can be "good" at it, from reading an in-game page. And partially, they actually can't do that. Because things change a lot, theory changes, there aren't necessarily hard rules to everything, etc.
    Last edited by Mythricia; 2012-09-04 at 03:31 PM.
    I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like more than half of you more than you deserve.

  5. #5
    It is helpful for a start. Shadow was always sort of 'easy to get lost in' for new players. Seeing how they've made it straightforward and soul destroyingly simple, this tab just drives a nail on what are you supposed to use for people who are clueless on where to begin with shadow. That said, I'm not quite sure it'll work the same for everyone else. They've made most specs simpler than they were though.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Celentes View Post
    It is helpful for a start. Shadow was always sort of 'easy to get lost in' for new players. Seeing how they've made it straightforward and soul destroyingly simple, this tab just drives a nail on what are you supposed to use for people who are clueless on where to begin with shadow. That said, I'm not quite sure it'll work the same for everyone else. They've made most specs simpler than they were though.

    How is it made simple? With the talent choices currently, you can opt in to play a much more reactive and "complex" Shadow that was possible in the previous 2 entire expansions. Even taking the most cynical look at it possible, it is if anything, exactly the same complexity as it was pre-patch.
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  7. #7
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    I think this is the tabs for the people who dont want to take time on how to learn there class its like a guildie of mine called it the "idiot tab"
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythricia View Post
    How is it made simple? With the talent choices currently, you can opt in to play a much more reactive and "complex" Shadow that was possible in the previous 2 entire expansions. Even taking the most cynical look at it possible, it is if anything, exactly the same complexity as it was pre-patch.
    I've seen dozens of situations where pre-patch shadow required you to think ahead. Situations where the current shadow can perform perfectly without making any decisions at all. Even with the most 'involving' talents which are FDCL and DI, it's all resorted to the absolute certainty to a strict, neverchanging priority list. Simcraft is the maximum of human ability now, it wasn't so before.
    Last edited by Celentes; 2012-09-05 at 08:20 AM.

  9. #9
    I really dislike the presentation of the new talent system.

    Sure, it shows you some core abilities. The core abilities tab even tell you when to use those abilities. But it doesn't tell you WHY you want to cast those spells. And it's not the full story. I feel that if my class could effectively be boiled down to 6 buttons, then my class would lose a lot of its appeal!

    Take Holy, for example. A Prayer of Healing centric build is the goto-healing-style for many healers right now. But of course it's only effective if the groups align, if there isn't anyone in immediate danger of dying, and it's different in use if you stack a lot of haste than if you go heavy on the mastery.

    Or Renew. It's an awesome spell (at least right now). But only if you glyph it, stick to holy word sanctuary, go inner will to avoid ooming, and - again - can spare the time to let it work its magic. Having a tooltip saying "use this on players not in immediate need of dying" isn't very accurate. You may just want to use Prayer of Healing, Greater Heal, flash heal, heal, serenity - or heck, even a life grip instead! It's all down to ifs and buts, gearing, buffs and playstyle.

    My pet peeve is really down to those passive spec buffs being so darned hidden. PWS as a disc priest is awesome. But why? Well, if you're new to the class, you won't know. Until you pick the spec, level to lvl 80, and read up on Rapture, Strength of Soul, Body & Sould, Reflective Shield glyphs and disc mastery. None of which are presented at the time of spec selection. All you know is that PWS is a "core heal". But Joe random newbie may very well interpret that as "okay, so I need to spam this on everything"... and then he's lost!

    I really wouldn't mind a miniature class guide in the core talent tab. But it has to be a bit more in-depth than what it offers. Unfortunately, once it is, it loses its value as well.
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  10. #10
    I actually LOVE that tab. I was really confused when I had to re-talent most of my alts (alts that I hadn't played in a while) so this tab really helped me. Especially on my Demo lock x)
    I think it's a really good addition, for both new AND old players who just need a little boost into this new system.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    Sure, it shows you some core abilities. The core abilities tab even tell you when to use those abilities. But it doesn't tell you WHY you want to cast those spells. And it's not the full story. I feel that if my class could effectively be boiled down to 6 buttons, then my class would lose a lot of its appeal!
    That happened for shadow quite heavily. More than that, they've actually removed the part where it tells you 'why' you want to cast those spells, because outside the damage part, their meaning was stripped.

    There's one more thing. In the past, the toolkit of spells was quite wild and blizzard didn't put a firm grasp on what you should be doing and what you shouldn't be doing. It had its disadvantages, but I've always felt like dealing with chaos was my thing, and could more or less figure out what I'm supposed to be doing to do my job properly on my own. It has also added some effort to go and find what you should be doing elsewhere. However, it's generally a thing that wouldn't last, since 'helpme' sites were becoming increasingly popular up to the point where they could as well tell you most things you need to know in game, which is what's happening now.

  12. #12
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    its just a simple tool for new players to grasp basic idea about class/spec they have choosen.

  13. #13
    I miss a explanation about Shadowform and which spells exactly will and which won't work with it. Because the Diszi, Holy and Shadow tabs in the spellbook have changed and the only other possiblity "Holy" might refer to (spells of the holy school, like Massdispel, PW:Fortitude, PW:S) is obviously not what they mean, so that toolip is now incomplete and misleading.
    They could also put Devouring Plague and SW: Death higher up in that List.

  14. #14
    Healing has a lot to do with conditions and choices than anything. Treating it as a priority system, rotation, and the laundry list of abilities is too long to get anything close to accurate on a single tab using very simple sentence structure. Which is fine, expecting anything more than that for healing is obtuse. Anyone looking for help on healing should be reading a proper guide, a youtube vid, or talking directly to someone in game that is more seasoned.


    The shadow tab is fine as is. Anything more than that would require far more text and explanation, and people at that point should consult a proper guide or figure it out on their own if they want.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celentes View Post
    I've seen dozens of situations where pre-patch shadow required you to think ahead. Situations where the current shadow can perform perfectly without making any decisions at all. Even with the most 'involving' talents which are FDCL and DI, it's all resorted to the absolute certainty to a strict, neverchanging priority list. Simcraft is the maximum of human ability now, it wasn't so before.
    A thousand times this. I miss the planning aspect, which is very nearly dead now.

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