Thread: Dungeons

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  1. #1

    Dungeons

    First of all, I really like Guild Wars 2, it's fun and etc. So an hour ago I did my first dungeon - Caudecus's Manor (story mode). Well, I didn't enjoy it at all, it felt like mindless madness; silly amounts of HP, zerg fest, etc. Yes, it has a lot of bugs, and I understand it, but I don't think I'd enjoy it if they'd iron out all those bugs.

    Is it just CM? Have you also felt disappointed? How did you like other dungeons?

  2. #2
    I have done CM and AC story mode, and I kinda agree with you, even though I have enjoyed them. I dont think it´s easy to come up with a strategy for a boss fight in a game where there are no tanks, healers or dps. So it kinda becomes a zerg fest in some fights. AC has a couple of fights where you actually have to do a bit more, like a boss fight where you fight 2 ghost and you gotta keep them apart and stuff like that, but still, simple mechanics. I dont know if its different for the other higher level dungeons, but I´d expect it to be somewhat similar :P

  3. #3
    i pretty sure all fights from the dps perspective are zergfests. Im also begging to think ppl just throw out the word like its a bad thing. I think the real meaning of zerg fest is just throw tons of ppl at a boss and eventually no matter how many u lose it will eventually die. You only have 5 players in a dungeon so its not a zergfest. Events can be zergfests but not dungeons.

    Now i actually liked CM, its also the only explore mode i have actually beaten. i can say that some parts are pretty ridiculus in exp mode with 10+ mob pulls where u gotta kite and kite till some run back cuz if u take them all on u wipe.

    I have actually enjoyed all the dungeons just supprised by how long it takes to complete them. I just got finished with a 3hr long Sorrows Furnace run. The 2nd to last boss gave us fits for about an hour and a half. The 2nd golem is pretty OP if u dont know what to do. Dungeons really feel like raids in length but i dont know if the reward is there for trying to repeat storymodes.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    I think the real meaning of zerg fest is just throw tons of ppl at a boss and eventually no matter how many u lose it will eventually die. You only have 5 players in a dungeon so its not a zergfest. Events can be zergfests but not dungeons.
    people call them zerg fests because most of the time people just die and run back from the waypoint while the fight is still going on, many people do this several times per boss.
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
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  5. #5
    Stood in the Fire HavaanSoup's Avatar
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    It's certainly more chaotic then the standard model, but I don't think that means it's dumber or less "hardcore". You can still have very interesting and difficult mechanics in the fights and I found it mostly enjoyable.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    i pretty sure all fights from the dps perspective are zergfests.
    Whereas in Guild Wars 2 there is no Holy Trinity, remember? You can't even apply proper teamwork, if you focus one the other four will easily trash you, no CC is efficient enough to make a difference, and it's pretty bad for melee, cause if you're in close range - you die.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    I prefer it tbh. That's just personal preference, but I like that things aren't choreographed. It's not a dance. The boss is a boss, it's going to attack you, you have to deal with it. No smart boss sits there hitting someone with heavy armour, a shield and defensive abilities that's taunting it while he's getting heals. The fact that it's more fun for DPS (Not having to stare at a damage meter and curse the person at the top of it) and occasionally move when the boss hits a certain %, and the fact there are no healers so it's INFINITELY more fun for people who're usually healers. (Don't get me wrong, I was a healer in WoW when I raided, but healers had essentially 4 or 5 tactics per raid instance. It was kind of boring how little there was to do except heal)

    I find simple yet challenging a good thing. Sure the mechanics are quite simple, but damn do they hurt. If you look at some of the fights in WoW (using this example because it's the only other MMO I've done dungeons in), they're really complicated... But are they hard? Not really, they're just a long, on-rails, choreographed fight. You can afford to get hit by so much. In GW2, while there are simple fights with 1-2 mechanics (Master Ranger Nente, for example, who has 2 phases), the mechanics are really dangerous.

    Tbh there shouldn't be waypoint zerging at all if your party aren't stupid. People tend to think reviving in combat isn't important when it actually is very important.
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  8. #8
    CM is the easiest dungeon in the game, on story mode it is a cake walk and if you did anything but stroll through there I'd have to wonder about your abilities. Go do AC, or AC explorable and come back and talk about zergfests.
    Last edited by Korialstrazs; 2012-09-02 at 08:37 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Korialstrazs View Post
    CM is the easiest dungeon in the game, on story mode it is a cake walk and if you did anything but stroll through there I'd have to wonder about your abilities. Go do AC, or AC explorable and come back and talk about zergfests.
    I'm not saying it was hard.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncano View Post
    Whereas in Guild Wars 2 there is no Holy Trinity, remember? You can't even apply proper teamwor..
    I stopped reading here.

    You are playing the game wrong

    Come back when you play the game right and have a point.

  11. #11
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I stopped reading here.
    I stopped reading here. You should read more.

    Teamwork for me means run away while someone else takes the hits then run back in so they can run away, I really dont feel there is the control that a trinity provides so the guy has a valid concern whether its right or not is up to the individual to decide.
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  12. #12
    I can rephrase myself - it was NOT FUN at all. I didn't enjoy dodging for 7 mins, spamming mine abilities, downed state was pretty meaningless... ok, I die, it's ok I'll get revived, oh cool I can press 6 and revive someone else, yay! Like what was the point of dieing? To coordinate how well 5 people can revive each other? Wow, better off dead sometimes, I guess. I know it was my first dungeon run, but I didn't really feel presence and usefulness of other professions in the group.

    Whereas I do enjoy PvE, some sudden Skritt attack on a village while you were just checking the scenery is FUN. I feel that some of my abilities pack a serious punch in such situations as well.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome Hjalmtyr's Avatar
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    I think the fact is it's not a set single player game kind of thing. You're 5 adventurers, you have to respond to each other's attacks and use real teamwork (real teamwork is all having the same roles and still being able to benefit each other. Healing and tanking = not real teamwork. You can play single player, all you have to do is stick to your role and you win. You don't have to interact or anything)

    So if everyone is dying a death from conditions, I recall them all to me and put down my well that converts conditions to boons. If people are down I go over and throw some supportive abilities and try to revive them. If someone is having a hard time I swap to daggers and immobilize whatever is chasing him to give him a bit of leeway. I look at my group, I watch what they're doing and I respond accordingly to work with them as a team. That is teamwork.

    If you don't believe me, how many people of you have joined WoW's LFG system, done an entire instance without a wipe and not talked to anyone in the entire instance. Teamwork? No, single player where everyone sticks to their own pre-programmed role and gets things done. They may as well be robots because there's no interaction.
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  14. #14
    Stood in the Fire Cyphran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    I have actually enjoyed all the dungeons just supprised by how long it takes to complete them. I just got finished with a 3hr long Sorrows Furnace run. The 2nd to last boss gave us fits for about an hour and a half. The 2nd golem is pretty OP if u dont know what to do. Dungeons really feel like raids in length but i dont know if the reward is there for trying to repeat storymodes.
    Take a Mesmer for that guy. It took me a few views to get used to the rocket barrage tell, but once I did it waa pretty simple to throw down a projectile bubble over him. Completely negates one barrage every 40 seconds. I could also with slightly less success, stop them with Chaos Storm. I had to stop using it on cooldown, but the fight was a joke witg me locking down two out of three barrages.

    First time in there for everyone in group. The boss you speak of was the only one we wiped to (once).

  15. #15
    Over 9000! Arrowstormen's Avatar
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncano View Post
    First of all, I really like Guild Wars 2, it's fun and etc. So an hour ago I did my first dungeon - Caudecus's Manor (story mode). Well, I didn't enjoy it at all, it felt like mindless madness; silly amounts of HP, zerg fest, etc. Yes, it has a lot of bugs, and I understand it, but I don't think I'd enjoy it if they'd iron out all those bugs.

    Is it just CM? Have you also felt disappointed? How did you like other dungeons?
    AC and CM are just like that. The dungeons are pretty whatever-city. PVE in general is not too involved.

    We have had some troubles getting most of our guild to just be able to zone into the same dungeon. So I haven't been able to play any but xAC/CM firsthand. I found them fun on the harder modes of play. Especially CM.

    A few guildies did the other dungeons and reported it was all the same type of stuff-- no real tactics, more of a romp/pipsqueak encounter design and few "gotcha" boss mechanics. That's basically all they had to say which boiled down to "meh".

    The nature of combat in GW2 is inherently limiting on what can be done with complex or mechanically robust encounters. It's just more of a twitch/action based game. Not that it is a good or bad thing, just what it is.

  17. #17
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    Cm is the most lackluster piece of crap they put in this game, honestly it hurt me to see something that terrible in the game. However the idea stays in all dungeons there, for use of a better word, insane. Its actually a more real life system, the idea is survival , its all about not getting killed (unless your in an organised group, then you can play it smart and just have 2 people taking damage while allowing everyone else to dps, but thats much harder to do then say tanking in wow)

  18. #18
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    CM is the worse dungeon I've done so far, we've 4 manned them all up to the level 70 one and CM was so easy and short it was ridiculous. We even went on to 4 man the explorable mode as well, with ease. Sorrows Embrace is much more fun though.

  19. #19
    Over 9000! Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    AC and CM are just like that. The dungeons are pretty whatever-city. PVE in general is not too involved.

    We have had some troubles getting most of our guild to just be able to zone into the same dungeon. So I haven't been able to play any but xAC/CM firsthand. I found them fun on the harder modes of play. Especially CM.

    A few guildies did the other dungeons and reported it was all the same type of stuff-- no real tactics, more of a romp/pipsqueak encounter design and few "gotcha" boss mechanics. That's basically all they had to say which boiled down to "meh".

    The nature of combat in GW2 is inherently limiting on what can be done with complex or mechanically robust encounters. It's just more of a twitch/action based game. Not that it is a good or bad thing, just what it is.
    It's called "depth".


    In vanilla WoW, fights weren't complex, but rather tuned high. The mechanics added later on narrowed down the ways you could deal with a boss, to the point where it was about following a tactic as well as possible. While that's one way to do it, it gives less depth, aka ways to deal with something.

    GW2 is more depth than complexity, and it seems like you wanted something more tactic-strict than action-depth.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-03 at 12:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Syngan View Post
    CM is the worse dungeon I've done so far, we've 4 manned them all up to the level 70 one and CM was so easy and short it was ridiculous. We even went on to 4 man the explorable mode as well, with ease. Sorrows Embrace is much more fun though.
    Story mode is kinda easy, though the one explorable path we did in it was rather fun and hard. But it was kind of buggy, so we exploited us past two boss fights more or less. Silly Frost.
    Last edited by Arrowstormen; 2012-09-02 at 10:05 PM.
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  20. #20
    Brewmaster Marston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The nature of combat in GW2 is inherently limiting on what can be done with complex or mechanically robust encounters. It's just more of a twitch/action based game. Not that it is a good or bad thing, just what it is.
    I wouldn't even say that. The thing is, I wouldn't call them zergfest, but Tank and Spank. I also have only done AC, CM and one route on CM explorable mode, but all bosses were just tank and spank with maybe 2 abilities. As said somewhere else, The Lovers were the pinnacle in terms of tactic. Even the Shadow Elemental and the Shatterer play the exact same and have the exact same abilites, namely:

    - AoE (spam)
    - Adds

    Thats about it. The thing is, adds are normal, so they die within seconds. And if every boss puts down the red circles it's also the same everywhere. They could do many various things, but it seems they haven't done that. It feels as if I am back to vanilla WoW tactics for dungeons.

    As for things what they could do:
    - Stacking poison shoot for ~5 seconds, three shots, the shoot itself deals not that much damage but the poison will (let's say, 1000 per stack per second). Solution: Three people need to get hit so the damage will be minimized instead of one player getting wrecked.
    - Have abilities where you have to stack together. Either a meteor like skill that shares damage or a closed circle that deals damage everyhwere except for the center. And reverse that (would be some sort of easy Heigan dance).
    - Adds that HAVE to be taken care off. Adds that buff the boss or even heal him, so you have to switch target. And they should spawn while the boss is attackable so you have to switch target.
    - Adds you can't kill the normal way but have to kite them in an attack of the boss. Or you have to kill them with only bleed or poison effects.
    - An aura that will damage you while in melee range, so you have to use ranged weapons. Switching to a reflective shield that blocks all ranged attacks, so now you have to use a melee weapon.

    Just a few ideas. Combine several of them in a single fight and you have a much more complex boss then, let's say The Shatterer.

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