Class Changes and Game Balance for 1.4

[Zaffaro]

One of my alts is deception assassin, I do not play him much, but still know this spec very well. Voltaic Strike change alone is a huge one, doubles its dmg figures actually and turns it into solid top tier talent, Chain Shock always was a must-have talent for deception and now even more so.

New Maul, Magnetism, Cloak on 90s cd are all wonderful changes. My wz kill ratio will improve significantly in 1.4, in wpvp well-played deception will be unbeatable. On the other hand spec is gonna stay extra squishy in rwz environment and still will be inferior to Madness in pve. But these are welcomed changes nevertheless.

[quras]

I can't decide if I like the changes or not.

I've never liked PVP changes affecting PVE and I can't say I've ever seen it work out. We're getting loads of it so far in a very PVP orientated blog.

Hopefully, we'll get a taste of it on the PTR at some point soon just to see.

[Arlee]

I can't decide if I like the changes or not.

I've never liked PVP changes affecting PVE and I can't say I've ever seen it work out. We're getting loads of it so far in a very PVP orientated blog.

Hopefully, we'll get a taste of it on the PTR at some point soon just to see.

Well without giving classes a bunch of abilities that are only usable in PvP or PvE it is pretty much impossible to keep changes to one from affecting the other. I'm not really sure such a strong division would even be a good idea even though when changes to one screws up the other it can be a huge pain in the butt.

[Forsedar]

These changes don't seem to be negatively affecting PvE. I am currently getting a ranged interrupt that I did not have before, so to me, that is a positive change. Keep in mind I am not a PvPer.

[quras]

Well without giving classes a bunch of abilities that are only usable in PvP or PvE it is pretty much impossible to keep changes to one from affecting the other. I'm not really sure such a strong division would even be a good idea even though when changes to one screws up the other it can be a huge pain in the butt.

It can be a huge pain in the butt and these changes seem fairly mild to be honest but they are made for the sake of PVP. Nothing to do with PVE. Granted it could be just the blog focusing on PVP and there are more changes to come from a PVE standpoint but that remains to be seen.

It's a shame there is not some separation of PVE and PVP skills to limit such changes affecting each other. I think I might actually like something like that.

[Forsedar]

It can be a huge pain in the butt and these changes seem fairly mild to be honest but they are made for the sake of PVP. Nothing to do with PVE. Granted it could be just the blog focusing on PVP and there are more changes to come from a PVE standpoint but that remains to be seen.

It's a shame there is not some separation of PVE and PVP skills to limit such changes affecting each other. I think I might actually like something like that.

Well if you think about it, having skills for PvP and PvE separately would just be a pain. It would mean more development time and double the amount of abilities to balance.

I think this blog was only to give us a taste of whats to come. PvPers have been shafted so far because of Rateds being pushed back, the new season being pushed back, etc. This was just something to give the playerbase so they could at least have some new information of some sort. Just wait for the PvE changes coming

[Deleted]

I can't decide if I like the changes or not.

I've never liked PVP changes affecting PVE and I can't say I've ever seen it work out. We're getting loads of it so far in a very PVP orientated blog.

Hopefully, we'll get a taste of it on the PTR at some point soon just to see.

Well, I both PvE and PvP on my scoundrel scrapper and this changes would finally fix my spec. My dps is going to increase to almost 10~15% and I finally have mobility to switch to targets. Those changes would actually fix both my PvP and PvE performance and in general I almost only see buffs on those changes. That can't be bad

[Amsden]

As a sniper not a whole lot affecting me. I don't get CCd a whole lot and am mostly ignored if there is some flashy marauder or PT distracting everyone for me. So I don't mind

[quras]

Well, I both PvE and PvP on my scoundrel scrapper and this changes would finally fix my spec. My dps is going to increase to almost 10~15% and I finally have mobility to switch to targets. Those changes would actually fix both my PvP and PvE performance and in general I almost only see buffs on those changes. That can't be bad

I'm sure the Mercenaries and Commandos and pretty happy too. A brand new interrupt.

I'm even interested in seeing the consular "Unnatural Preservation heal and if it's any good beyond PVP.

I'm not saying it all bad at this point at all. Some are interesting but I am skeptical when changes are made in an attempt to handle PVP issues that affect PVE or the other way around.

[Arlee]

Oh I wasn't trying to say anything about these changes affecting PvE negatively. I was just pointing out that unless a game has severe barriers between the two a change in one aspect will have an effect on the other aspect as well. It's just an inherent challenge to this sort of game is all.

---------- Post added 2012-09-05 at 04:36 PM ----------

Update on these changes.

Originally Posted by SWTOR

Hey everyone - thanks for your feedback on the classes blog! We're reading your questions and concerns and will work on getting answers to some of the common ones. Today I spoke to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) and Rob Hinkle (Senior PvP Designer) about the changes to Resolve in relation to coordinated and uncoordinated teams, which many of you have questions or concerns about.

First of all, please do keep in mind that reading about changes and experiencing them can be different. We are looking forward to your feedback once you've had some time to see these changes when the PTS becomes available!

In the live game, being affected by two stuns simultaneously only controls you for 4 seconds, but it gives you full Resolve. To be plain, this makes escaping a rampaging melee player very, very difficult. It's directly related to concerns we see regarding overpowered melee and them being inescapable. Going immune after only 4 seconds of control strongly favors the one being controlled.

What this change actually does is make "wasted" control not build extraneous Resolve. Once this change goes live, two well-coordinated players will not be able to control a target for any longer than they ever were able to before. In the live game and after this change, the optimal control strategy is and will continue to be "player B uses his control after player A's control has worn off." The only change is that two uncoordinated players aren't unduly and additionally punished for wasting their control.

Consider the following examples under the new system:

ex. A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
• 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 200 Resolve
• Enemy gains a total of 1000 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

ex B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
• 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

Consider those same examples under the old system:

ex A: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 1 second after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 5 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
• 1 second later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 1s = 5 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 5 seconds
• Resolve gain rate = 320 per second of stun

ex. B: Player A stuns the target for 4 seconds. 4 seconds after the stun is applied, player B stuns the same target for 4 seconds. The target is controlled for a total duration of 8 seconds.

• Player A stuns the enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = 4 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
• 4 seconds later, player B stuns the same enemy for 4 seconds | effective control duration = existing 4s + new 4s = 8 seconds | enemy gains 800 Resolve
• Enemy gains a total of 1600 Resolve for being controlled for 8 seconds
• Resolve gain rate = 200 per second of stun

The only difference here is that the enemy is never treated to undue Resolve gains. Resolve gain always matches the amount of absolute control time. Two coordinated players can control a target as long as ever, but no longer than ever before.

(Source)

[RoninaThorstone]

I can't decide if I like the changes or not.

I've never liked PVP changes affecting PVE and I can't say I've ever seen it work out. We're getting loads of it so far in a very PVP orientated blog.

Hopefully, we'll get a taste of it on the PTR at some point soon just to see.

Yes, god forbid they focus on PVP for a change...

[noahjam326]

I am loving the Overload change. Inquisitors now get an AoE Force Push. It's almost double the range of Overload currently, and that was probably one of my bigger complaints while playing my Sorcerer. Overload always felt like a really short knockback. Targets would always be about 1 meter or less away from where I wanted them to land. The new effect is going to make Warzones a lot more fun.

[Whispz]

I'm a little concerned for the survivability of PvP dps sorcs/sages with the changes.
Nerfs:
Overload now a 120 cone instead of 360 - imo a big change as personally I used it to get rid of melee chasing me or ball carriers etc and more often then not they were to the side or behind me.
Stun now has a 10 yard range reduced from 30 yards - not so bad for survivability but makes nuking healers from your LoS position a lot harder.

Buffs:
Self heal - guessing the talent that increase this will be somewhere in the healer tree (jury out on this one till we see the size of the heal)
Force speed CD redused to 20 secs from 30 secs - I think a good compensation for the overload change (the immunity talent will only be healers)
The bubble blind not breaking on damage - Once again not so useful as the talent is so high up the lighting/sage equivalent tree and most dps play madness / sage equivalent

I honestly feel that the healing sorcs/sages have been compensated nicely for the nerfs but for dps they will have to get more in the thick of things to be effective and are already way to squishy. Curious what others think, Im not saying its a huge change but i think it will be noticeable

[moff]

I like the new resolve system, its much better now, if that works correctly as they imagine it.

as for the sorcerer. I have to wait and see how the overload change works out, I always wished for a force push like ability, If you dont have too many lag issues I think I'lleven like the new "nerfed" overload.

but I agree that the damage needs to be increased. sorcerors were very overpowered when the game launched, because they game was balanced for battlemaster gear and especially battlemaster weapons.
since the sorceror is the least weapon dependand class he was very overpowered then they game launched and no one hat battlemaster weapones. this changed when everyone got battlemasater and now with war hero + the sorceror needs to be changed in some way. our damage is simply too low because we dont profit from gear as much as other classes.

[quras]

I'm a little concerned for the survivability of PvP dps sorcs/sages with the changes.
Nerfs:
Overload now a 120 cone instead of 360 - imo a big change as personally I used it to get rid of melee chasing me or ball carriers etc and more often then not they were to the side or behind me.
Stun now has a 10 yard range reduced from 30 yards - not so bad for survivability but makes nuking healers from your LoS position a lot harder.

Buffs:
Self heal - guessing the talent that increase this will be somewhere in the healer tree (jury out on this one till we see the size of the heal)
Force speed CD redused to 20 secs from 30 secs - I think a good compensation for the overload change (the immunity talent will only be healers)
The bubble blind not breaking on damage - Once again not so useful as the talent is so high up the lighting/sage equivalent tree and most dps play madness / sage equivalent

I honestly feel that the healing sorcs/sages have been compensated nicely for the nerfs but for dps they will have to get more in the thick of things to be effective and are already way to squishy. Curious what others think, Im not saying its a huge change but i think it will be noticeable

yea, it looks like healers got a little more escape mechanisms and an added heal even with the nerf to force wave/overload.

It's funny, I rarely used it to hit people in front of me in PVP and pretty much always used it in kiting or just to get someone off my back. That will take some adjusting to.

As far as the self heal goes, I wonder how it will affect sage healing, especially in PVE. Given unnatural preservation costs no force and can be used every 30 secs it will greatly offset the health loss when using noble sacrifice. I know I have 745 bonus healing on my sage, so unnatural preservation along with Dark Resilience/Valiance talent to increase it's healing by 30% would be amazing to offset the drawback of noble sacrifice and the unlimited force sages used to have.

If sages start having unlimited force again, I see another change coming to sages in a form of a nerf to either force or health regeneration or both. BW might even look into more health lost from noble sacrifice but there are so many ways they could go with it. I don't think BW will let to go back to the way it was.

The new heal may not make a huge difference but I'd like to check it out on the PTR for sure.

Yes, god forbid they focus on PVP for a change...

Yea, We've never had a duscussion on PVP changes affecting PVE (or the other way around) in our gaming lifetime. That never happens right?

God forbid, they have PVP and PVE distinct talents and skills or entire trees that don't or can't affect one or the others game play. Sure it takes some extra development time but it seems it could be well worth it given the number of times we have this same discussion.

[valliant13]

i played a marauder, and with these changes all I can think of is a game that already benefits ranged in pvp just made it that much more painful for melee in pvp. That cc change is garbage, sorry. If two people cc the same person at the same time then they are both stupid and don't know how to time their cc's right. So glad I don't waste my time on this crap game anymore...and to think i thought it truely wouldve been the wow killer...then bioware went and fucked it up by making pve too easy and now the only decent part in the game is going to shit for melee.

[Snave]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean assassins will have force speed on a 15 second cooldown? 3 second duration so effectively every 12 seconds?

Wouldn't this make them ridicously OP? You'd be able to kite easily, amazing at moving node to node for defense / offense and I'm sure you can work out the implications for huttball.

[Amsden]

i played a marauder, and with these changes all I can think of is a game that already benefits ranged in pvp just made it that much more painful for melee in pvp. That cc change is garbage, sorry. If two people cc the same person at the same time then they are both stupid and don't know how to time their cc's right. So glad I don't waste my time on this crap game anymore...and to think i thought it truely wouldve been the wow killer...then bioware went and fucked it up by making pve too easy and now the only decent part in the game is going to shit for melee.

Then why are you posting in this thread?

[quras]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean assassins will have force speed on a 15 second cooldown? 3 second duration so effectively every 12 seconds?

Wouldn't this make them ridicously OP? You'd be able to kite easily, amazing at moving node to node for defense / offense and I'm sure you can work out the implications for huttball.

If all else stays the same, assassins and consular should have a base 20 second cool down on force speed and talents to reduce down to 10 (minus 5 seconds per talent point at a max of 2 points)

The way I figure it and as long as other talents don't change: every 10 secs they get a 2 sec (not 3) speed burst if they take the reduction talents.

As a full sage healer I would love to have that but it's not possible. I think only telekinetic, kinetic combat can get the additional reduction in their respective talent trees. (and whatever empire equivalent talents are on empire side of course)

[RoninaThorstone]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this mean assassins will have force speed on a 15 second cooldown? 3 second duration so effectively every 12 seconds?

Wouldn't this make them ridicously OP? You'd be able to kite easily, amazing at moving node to node for defense / offense and I'm sure you can work out the implications for huttball.

its to put them on par with warriors who have a 15 second cooldown on charge that applies a 2-3 second snare, effectively making it 12 seconds.