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  1. #41
    Depressing is pretty accurate for the state of ret.

    I'm pretty sure Requital feels the exact same.

    In a nutshell, all beta did was tune down our abilities, upscale weapon damage while nerfing our scaling with them, and gutted our cooldowns making us talent but still rely heavily on them.

    They made sustained complete shit by repeated nerfs to mastery, Censure, Seals AND removal of seals of command proc, and Crusader strike aka our bread and butter attack.

    We would be fine but shifting damage from these to cooldowns is in the best interest for ret in their minds.
    Last edited by anaxie; 2012-09-07 at 06:30 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Don't kid yourselves into thinking the damage will get fixed.
    Haha, it reminds me Cata all over again. During cata ret had so many issues, one of which - is heavy dependance on procs and cds. One could think that developers would try to fix it because issues are too painfully obvious, but no - it will be another expansion of completely broken spec.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Finally Blizzard made something good to this spec. I always enjoyed classes which had allot of utility and mobility and Ret is probably the top now. Rogues after the nerf are not even close to rets now, mages and hunters can't stop us. Ofcourse it was expected that with great mobility will come great nerf to our dmg. It's not as burst as it was in Cata, but it's not that bad either. I don't feel like I need more dmg and with all the healing and mobility buffs, there is almost no dead time in the gameplay.
    I am just afraid it's too good to be true and it wont last long. Blizzard obviously don't like when players are too happy and we can expect some kind of nerf .

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenjin View Post
    I am just afraid it's too good to be true and it wont last long. Blizzard obviously don't like when players are too happy and we can expect some kind of nerf .
    PVP is like school. If you're having fun, something is obviously wrong.

    But yeah, I can see your point. I'm totally expecting nerfs to Clemency. I mean a cheap ability and without cd that clears movement impairing effects for a melee class ?! Man, that just reeks of nerf.
    Overall, paladins may not burst the shit out of people but sure as hell can easily outlast them and don't even need to be prot for that.

    Ret pala = top dog for solo pvp and random bgs, which is great as I don't give a rat's ass about the arena, where GC is balancing pvp anyway. Now we'll get to deliver "pvp is not balanced around 1v1" lines all over the place, like mages and rogues do/did.
    Last edited by mmoc213777db2f; 2012-09-07 at 08:18 AM.

  5. #45
    Deleted
    I might be wrong, but i get the feeling people who get bored by ret rotation now are deep into DS raiding atm and are already extremely bored of the same near-static fights over and over again. Also, they all have the tier set bonus for holy power (wich was a bandaid fix at the DS level), so they aren't feeling as much the increase in holy power generation and fluidity.


    In MOP raids, there's much more mobility requirements and in that the "new" ret paladin is much more mobile and realy feels much more fun to me. Also, the fights seem to have the need for a little more burst phases wich fits the ret better.

    I'm not saying that i feel its OK we have so much burst cooldowns, i realy feel our damage should shift much more to sustained from the cooldowns' burst, but, as my personal opinion the ret paladin is much better now.

  6. #46
    Bloodsail Admiral ipoststuff's Avatar
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    There are couple things id like.

    -Inq should 2-5sec longer per HP.
    -We dont bring enough utility to a raid. I was thinking a new DI (ret only).

    DI
    Instant cast 40 yard range
    Buff the target with DI for 30 mins. A killing blow on target will kill the paladin instead and heal the target for an amount equal to paladins max hp. The buff disappears when paladin dies for any reason.

    -Less damage cooldowns. GC said this was a problem yet we have HA,wings,Guardian. Add a trinket to that and we have 4 cooldowns. And also the guardian isnt all that amusing. It has a 5min cooldown and it sucks if you dont line it with another cooldown.

    Reduce guardian cooldown to 3min and make the just buff 20%str without it having to stack. make HA like it was first introduced (not a seperate cd but tied to guardian).

    -Make turn evil instant without glyph. Its almost useless.

    -More glyphs for ret. Esp for PvP.
    Last edited by ipoststuff; 2012-09-07 at 02:32 PM. Reason: posted in the wrong topic lol

  7. #47
    Deleted
    As I said, whilst the rotation feels more fluid and we are no longer proc dependent.

    We are fundamentally a burst dps class, capable of insane short term damage but after the cooldowns we may as well go home as our damage drops off.

    Crusader strike hits like a wet noodle, mastery damage sucks donkeys.

    For those of us who don’t PvP it seems very much like blizzard listened to us and gave us a slightly better rotation, listened to the PvPers and gave us more damage. Then listened to the QQ as Rets blew people away and nerfed our sustained damage whilst buffing the burst.

    You know your burst damage is OTT when you are hitting out burst dps even the best berserk swipe ferals would be proud of.

  8. #48
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    I'm totally expecting nerfs to Clemency. I mean a cheap ability and without cd that clears movement impairing effects for a melee class ?! Man, that just reeks of nerf.
    Because all the hands can be dispeled/spellstealed I don't feel like this talent is a big deal. Well at least not in 1v1 / bg situation, however in arena it might feel a bit OP coz having 2 sac / hand of protection to break CC is a BIG deal .
    The most OP thing about ret atm is healing. I mean c'mon 1.5 sec word of glory, with almost every ability generating holy power even on range gives u instant heal at will. And with holy avenger + wings u basically can spam it making you immortal. The only problem is, that it's very hard to "fix" healing. As it was in Cata ( huge heals with moderate cd ) wasn't good either. Well you can say that "you have to spend ur holy power for heals so it's either ur offensive or defensive thats how it works" and it's true. But with 5 holy power you can actually do both, unless ur under heavy pressure.

  9. #49
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    so ret vs ret in 1vs1 is an endless duell? ^^

  10. #50
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    In my guild a lot of Holy and Prot Paladins wanna raid as Ret. Which is annoying a lot of officers and hinting me to switch over to Prot or Holy for compensation. Our raids consist of 4-5 Rets sometimes, but Heroic DS is a total joke now anyway.

    Those Rets can't compete with a veteran Ret like myself, but I am feeling the pressure.

  11. #51
    ive being ret since Wrath PVP-PVE , when i was leveling this class i had so much fun with questing and dungeons until i realised there is something called DPS meter wich mostely took me a while to understand how Ret pally can do more dps so i had so much trouble entering ICC to kill lichking , telling me ret is a hybrid class and cant do much dps wich bothered me alot and with the first patch of the Cataclysm when Ret suffered more and more i took a deep breath and waited for some good news , until they made us RNG class , and more bursty i kinda liked it but as any dps class i wished ret paly could have some sustained dmg , now with more holy powers im having so much fun and with our mobility im pvping alot , but in pve i still feel without my guardian and my wings ... kinda frustrated

  12. #52
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    ive being ret since Wrath PVP-PVE , when i was leveling this class i had so much fun with questing and dungeons until i realised there is something called DPS meter wich mostely took me a while to understand how Ret pally can do more dps so i had so much trouble entering ICC to kill lichking , telling me ret is a hybrid class and cant do much dps wich bothered me alot and with the first patch of the Cataclysm when Ret suffered more and more i took a deep breath and waited for some good news , until they made us RNG class , and more bursty i kinda liked it but as any dps class i wished ret paly could have some sustained dmg , now with more holy powers im having so much fun and with our mobility im pvping alot , but in pve i still feel without my guardian and my wings ... kinda frustrated
    So far I haven't had any issues with DPS in Raids. I am Heroic DS geared, including Heroic Gurth. Trust me my raiders aren't wimps when it comes to dps either. The key to doing well as Ret dps is all about the UI.

    The Holy Power meter is stupid as hell. They put it at the top left of the screen, and now the two extra HP slots are even smaller and harder to see. It may work on target dummies just fine, but in a raid environment there's a lot of crap flying everywhere. I use KAHolyPower to put a custom HP meter and have it lower center of my screen. Why? Because that's where my eyes are majority of the time, and where my attention will need to be.

    Then there's macros. I excel at multi target switching, which is not to be confused with AOE. This macro alone makes a huge difference.

    /startattack
    /cast Crusader Strike

    Do this for everything you use to attack and you'll a big difference in dps. Especially on a fight like spine where a lot of people have a hard time targeting tendons. When you hit this macro, you target the nearest enemy and begin to attack it.

  13. #53
    hehehehe u got me wrong m8 but thanks for the macro ill try to use it , i usualy use macro to bind some abilities together like AW + guardian , something like that , but maybe ill get more info from you when u have times to explain how it works

  14. #54
    Deleted
    I agree with Anaxie. Depressing is the word for how Rets are right now.

    Usually i love the new changes they make to the class, and i loved how it was. But this? We are dependent on Inq for damage, although all we do is practically heal. Rets are EXTREMELY squishy in PvP and i can't for the life of me understand why. I can go on and on, but what's most frightening is that people actually seem to enjoy these changes, which i cannot understand, at all. As i predicted, this will be the end of my wow career. My expectations of MoP is close to none. Actually, i count on it to fail even harder than Cataclysm did.

    EDIT: Note that this post is all about PvP.

  15. #55
    The Patient
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    ive enjoyed the new ret ever since i started playing ret on beta...ret overall since soooo much more fluid then cata ret and i welcomed the change plus the new might puts me at 53% mastery, which i cant** complain about either xD

  16. #56
    Eh I love the changes to ret. I have yet to see its damage on a lvl 90 competitive raiding basis but until then I am having a blast with the rotation and the utility.

    Some of you sound like you need to find another class to call home ie: "so tired of ret getting worse and worse" and whatnot. Many of you seem to have issues with particular things such as sustained dps vs "boredom." I really can't remember a time when the retribution rotation was mentally stimulating to the extent you imply it was. What about the old rotation made it interesting?

  17. #57
    They made the spec easier to play by basically not having to think about our holy power anymore. This also removed a lot of the RNG (read filling gaps in rotation with Exo/DP procs). However, our overall damage has been nerfed and we rely even more on CD's (even if we choose to spec DP).

    My impression is that we've traded even more of our damage for utilility. This utility being the wrong type of utility. We can not multidot anymore and we still only do decent AoE. I'm not going to enjoy spamming hands on people or even throw offheals at people because I know for sure this is not going to make me a better option over other classes in raids. My guild will keep picking my Ret for fights where burst damage is needed. If even that (my lock is bursting like mad).

    Basically they put more bandaids on some of the issues, which instead of making the spec able to compete vs other classes just easier to execute properly.

    I'm having a lot of fun in PvP, though. But that's because I've gotten used to being a support class with good burst and great offheals. I'm sure we'll be viable but the damage is far from stable so we will still have to rely on burst aka wait for CD's. In 3v3 we'll probably still mainly be part of lolcomps.
    Last edited by Bonkura; 2012-09-13 at 10:39 PM.

  18. #58
    Fluffy Kitten Krekko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    They made the spec easier to play by basically not having to think about our holy power anymore.
    I'd say that's not really true. It allows for more judgement calls to be made as you go through it. Now you have the option of waiting until 5, or using at 3 or 4 situationally, choosing on the go and on the fly as your CD's come and go.

    Sure there is more room for it doesn't mean that you don't have to stop thinking about Holy power usage. You still need to pay attention to your gains and your generation.
    Last edited by Krekko; 2012-09-13 at 10:54 PM.
    -Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    I'd say that's not really true. It allows for more judgement calls to be made as you go through it. Now you have the option of waiting until 5, or using at 3 or 4 situationally, choosing on the go and on the fly as your CD's come and go.

    Sure there is more room for it doesn't mean that you don't have to stop thinking about Holy power usage. You still need to pay attention to your gains and your generation.
    You just need to learn the basic priority with what abilities are worth waiting for with basically nothing to react to anymore. Just keep an eye on your Exorcism really. It's impossible for someone with a brain to drop Inqiusition now because you can be more greedy when you're about to refresh it and if you end up being late to it you'll just get 1-2 attacks without the buff up.

    My biggest concern is that you will hardly get punished for hitting wrong button as long as you know your basic priority. The rotation is hardly more complex than the one for combat rogue, which has been the easiest spec all through Cata.

    Edit: You also don't need to worry about your CD's. Before this you had to start planning 30s before and even sometimes pray to the RNG gods that everything lined up properly with your Inq before you popped your CD's. Now you can just pop them whenever they're available and you can refresh Inq first (which is like 5s preparation).
    Last edited by Bonkura; 2012-09-13 at 11:04 PM.

  20. #60
    Deleted
    I agree with anaxie.
    Sure the rotation is alot smoother now, but it's really damn boring aswell. Without speccing into DP i really almost fall asleep outside of cooldowns.
    Theres alot of good stuff that comes with mop, but also alot of bad stuff that stays and comes to ret.
    I suppose the new talent system make it somewhat hard to balance us properly without messing up holy/prot.
    If I had to make a wish list
    - Make dp a baseline ret talent as it was before, theres to much boredom without having it specced.
    - Make inq last 50 sec when used with 5 hp, or just simply add more time per holy power. ( the glyph sucks )
    - Increase min range on hammer of righteous, or make it usable outside melee range. Or just replace the shit completely with Avengers shield or something similar ^^
    - Change Avenging Wrath back to 2 minutes cd and make a new proper 4set bonus for rets. ( might need to tone down le dmg of HA so it wont be to op though ) The change is mostly cause its really annoying having to manage cd's/trinket cd's and other procs with wings at a different cd.
    - As per usual, Up the freaking damage outside of cooldowns.
    Hopefully it'll be better at 90, but i really doubt it.

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