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  1. #721
    More Loading Ready Run.


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  2. #722
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaylinBDF View Post
    So, I had a nice Necropotence deck back in the day. I really love control decks and played mono-blue almost exclusively in legacy format vs kids at school from 2nd-5th grade. I played Fallen Empires/Revised -- Urza's Saga/5th Edition and I have some rare cards, in fact many rare cards. Note the cost of some of these cards or their antiquity makes this deck look absurd. I already own them. Cost is probably not an issue as I have the card. Obviously I traded with my friends who started earlier for plenty of cards from unlimited, antiquities, legends, chronicles, the dark, etc.

    Vintage or as I knew it type 1 rules are simple, no more than 4 cards in a deck, it's ideal to have your deck at 60 cards because it increases the likelihood of drawing that great card versus those cards that are just going to keep you from losing. Control is NOT a combo deck, it counters combo decks. I am willing to spend some money on it but in all likelihood if you suggest an ancient or out of print card even one worth multiple hundreds of dollars I have it, and if it's new my friends do and I can trade for it.

    This is my deck as it stands, I want to make it better, I haven't played in nearly 15 years. My friends play casual though usually vintage due to me trading them an obscure card or two for a new card I want. I wish my deck to be mono-black as my goal is to get more friends to play with and play prismatic 5 player in addition to multiplayer. I have many years of playing blue control but no so much with playing black.

    The Type 1 (Vintage) rules can be found here:
    http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...ces/sfrvintage


    EXPLANTIONS HAVE BEEN SIMPLIFIED FOR EASIER COMPREHENSION, PLAYERS BEGIN WITH 20 HEALTH

    Artifact (6) stays in play until placed in the discard pile
    1 Elixir of Immortality (basically place into your discard pile to gain 5 health, shuffle your discard pile into your deck)
    1 Ivory Tower (every one of your turnsgain 1 health for each card in your hand in excess of 4)
    2 Jester's Cap (remove 3 cards in your opponent's deck from the game entirely)
    2 Library of Leng (you have no maximum hand size, if you must discard a card you may discard it to the top of your deck instead of your discard pile)

    Creature (6) stays in play until placed in the discard pile
    4 Crypt Ghast (offensive creature, 2 attack 2 health, you may pay 1 black resource to deal 1 damage to each opponent and gain 1 life per damage dealt every time you cast play a non-land card, in addition your lands produce 1 more black resource when drawn for resources)
    2 Nirkana Revenant (4 attack 4 health, your lands produce 1 more black resource when drawn for resources)

    Enchantment (1)
    stays in play until placed in the discard pile
    1 Yawgmoth's Bargain (permanent enchantment spell, at any time you may pay 1 health to draw a card, you do not draw your initial card every turn)

    Instant (12)
    This effect only happens once
    4 Dark Ritual (pay 1 black resource to add 3 black to your resources)
    4 Ultimate Price (for 2 black resources destroy a creature not costing more than one color of resources)
    1 Vampiric Tutor (1 black resource, look through your deck and pick any card, shuffle and place it on top, you lose 2 health)
    3 Withering Boon (prevent any creature spell from being cast. You lose 3 health)

    Sorcery (11) This effect only happens once
    4 Consume Spirit (costs any amount of black mana +2, deals that much damage to a creature or to another player, you gain that much health)
    1 Demonic Tutor (search through your deck and put a card directly into your hand, shuffle your deck)
    2 Drain Life (costs any amount of black mana +2, deals that much damage to a creature or to another player, you gain that much health but not more than the health of the creature or player you targeted)
    1 Dregs of Sorrow (expensive, 5 + any number of resources. Destroy that number of creatures and draw that many cards)
    1 Imperial Seal (1 black resource, look through your deck and pick any card, shuffle and place it on top, you lose 2 health)
    2 Sickening Dreams (discard any number of cards, deal that much damage to every creature and each player loses that much health)

    Land (24) stays in play until placed in the discard pile
    24 Swamp (add 1 black resource to your resource pool, stays in play)


    Note: I am thinking of including a strip mine. have ruled out Mox Jet and Time Vault as these cards do not fit my current construction of mana acceleration. The creature destruction is to counter those new 1 creature buff decks and infect decks where I may run into issues. This isn't a quick deck, as control decks are wont to be, but it should do approximately well as blue. My win condition is either a HUGE drain life or such clone, or standard creature attack pending creature removal (unlikely with the feldon's cane 2.0 and cheap tutoring). I am not including bubbling muck as on turn 1-2 it's worthless and by turn 3 I can easily have a creature that does it better. No demonic consultation. Since I have no card ordering I cannot risk losing cards I need for mass draw since they are restricted in Type 1.

    I would like this deck to be tournament worthy, though I do not play in tournaments and never will, but my goal is to make it good enough to do so. Suggestions for improvements, cards I do not know of being out of the loop. I do not wish to deviate from playing black control as control is my favorite and I've really played blue control to its limit. Packing my deck with tutoring, card draw, and force of will is never as fun as people make it out to be.
    The only Monoblack control deck I currently know is Pox. It's a legacy deck, though, not vintage. It uses land destruction and discard, combined with Mishra's factory, liliana of the veil and Nether spirit (sometimes tombstalker) to grind opponents out.

    It's not a tier 1 deck in legacy, but it's rather fun (not for your opponent though).

    You might want to look at decklists for monoblack pox online (mtgsalvation has a primer on it, for example and http://www.mtgdecks.net/ should have some lists)
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  3. #723
    I have plenty of copies of pox. I suppose I could try this, I realized I could always toss a lotus in the deck above, though I'm honestly not sure if it's better than dark ritual. Early game it's better but by turn 3 it's not as good simply because if I need it on an opponent's turn somebody could always get rid of it.

  4. #724
    Vintage follows different rules. The list you presented above will lose (immensely) to merfolk/dredge/control decks and even storm decks. Drain tendrils will love playing against you.

    The problem is that half of what you have is directed towards creatures and high mana costs. Ritual helps, but in that case, why not just play storm?

    To be frank, you should start with adding a bit more acceleration (sol ring is a good example) and yes, mox jet is a good addition as well. Both of these will allow you to play a turn 2 crypt ghast or revenant. After that, get yawgmoth's will to reuse your rituals and stuff. I would also suggest something like considering whether or not withering boon and sickening dreams are such a good choice. If you want control, think innocent blood and/or mutilate/barter in blood. This will allow you to maintain your deck structure, but be more efficient.

    However, this still leaves you wide open to the control and combo decks. How much money are you willing to pump into this? Cause stuff to get you more card advantage might also help, as well as some decent discard...

    All in all, I don't think this will work in competitive vintage. You're going to be dead before the drain effects get you anywhere...

  5. #725
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkle View Post
    Vintage follows different rules. The list you presented above will lose (immensely) to merfolk/dredge/control decks and even storm decks. Drain tendrils will love playing against you.

    The problem is that half of what you have is directed towards creatures and high mana costs. Ritual helps, but in that case, why not just play storm?

    To be frank, you should start with adding a bit more acceleration (sol ring is a good example) and yes, mox jet is a good addition as well. Both of these will allow you to play a turn 2 crypt ghast or revenant. After that, get yawgmoth's will to reuse your rituals and stuff. I would also suggest something like considering whether or not withering boon and sickening dreams are such a good choice. If you want control, think innocent blood and/or mutilate/barter in blood. This will allow you to maintain your deck structure, but be more efficient.

    However, this still leaves you wide open to the control and combo decks. How much money are you willing to pump into this? Cause stuff to get you more card advantage might also help, as well as some decent discard...

    All in all, I don't think this will work in competitive vintage. You're going to be dead before the drain effects get you anywhere...
    I really wanted to play a necro-like deck. I'll look around for more things with card draw effects I could use instead or in addition to Yawgmoth's bargain/necropotence. Jet and Sol Ring are np I have those, I just wasn't sure since I wasn't going to get the cool effect from the creatures. As I said I played ages ago. Mox jet is also restricted, unless I draw it in my opening hand it doesn't really grant me any benefit over playing useful spells in my deck as it stands and neither does sol ring, hell dark ritual is arguable vs lotus except on turn 1, since if you're going to cast something on your opponent's turn better they be less prepared for it. I'll work on it, take a look into Pox, and get back to you all. Do you think there are tutors worth throwing in besides the 3 I already have?

  6. #726
    Just got back into this since 2003, and came to find that if I wanna play in my local store's Friday Night Magic, I can't use the majority of my 2000 cards (not counting lands, I had about 100 usable cards across all 5 colors and artifacts). Helped the owner of the store out and got a free "fat pack", and had enough decent cards to make a green/white deck. Will see how it goes this friday when I get to play it for the first time.

  7. #727
    If you want to stay monoblack, maybe there aren't many other tutor options... :/

    Grim tutor if you don't mind it being worse and expensive, is still ok. Death wish if you REALLY know what you are doing (does anyone remember death long circa 2005? :P) and infernal tutor if you use lion's eye diamond and yawgmoth's will.

  8. #728
    So, with much input from you all I now have this, it's not a POX deck, but it's got the discard and creature destruction, just no land removal.
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Sol Ring

    4 Guul Draz Specter
    4 Hypnotic Specter
    4 Sangromancer

    4 Liliana's Caress
    4 Phyrexian Arena

    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Extinction
    1 Vampiric Tutor

    4 Liliana of the Veil

    1 Demonic Tutor
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Imperial Seal

    22 Swamp
    http://www.mtgvault.com/kaylin/decks...tar-see-rules/
    With the basic idea of top-decking my two opponents and destroying their creatures while getting a large card advantage over them, and ofc everything has an evasion ability. My friends forced me to agree to no p9 and I said okay as long as they don't proxy anything over 100 bucks, so we're good there (they've all been playing since college or so, not 2nd grade, I will not proxy). Remember I want to have fun playing against my friends with this deck, and I want it to do decently vs them, but the reality of the situation is this is for pentagram/star/5-point magic. My allies will be blue and red, I will be vs green and white (but as per rules can't grab cards that explicitly target those colors), mono-color at least 60% of non-land cards being colored and I'm not sure I want to put land destruction in when I am likely going to be facing opponents with low cost creatures. I'll play it casually vs them, in non-prismatic format of course, but that's what I'm looking for here. I just feel there's no reason to submit my ideas to oh it's okay for this to be bad because everybody else is playing mono color too, after all, nobody ever had a tough time playing mono-blue control.

    some of those search lands that you take 1 damage for to find a land and bring it into play untapped look fun, but I don't want to drop a ton of money on cards I don't have and I doubt my friends would trade them, plus I don't want to proxy cards against them when I have older cards to play with anyway.

    Our complete house rules so far are as follows (Wizards has some sort of rules for this format; it's an unofficial format) we're basing our rules off the book I have which is WotC's Pocket Player's Guide to 4th edition (I know, retro):
    D10 determines which player chooses the first player to play.

    All players sit in color order: Black --> Red --> Green --> White --> Blue, play continues clockwise.

    You may not include any colors that are not your color or colorless with exceptions:
    Cards that are multicolored because they can be played with either color of mana may be included, but you must pay that cost with your color.

    Excepting lands, at least 60% of your deck must be composed of cards from your color. You cannot pick green and just play an artifact deck.

    Your deck must be vintage legal, in addition due to them costing like 500$+ each, the power 9 are also banned. If you do not know what these are, you don't have them. No proxies over 100$ if you choose to play with proxies, and proxies are discouraged.

    Mana generated by you that is not your color is colorless mana. For example if you generate 10 red mana while playing blue, that mana is colorless.

    Your opponents are the players sitting across the table. For example red's opponents are blue and white. Your allies sit next to you, for example red's allies are green and black. Note: this makes your allies enemies of each other.

    The game ends when at least one player defeats all their opponents, A player may share the win condition even if they were eliminated for example white will win if black and red are eliminated even if white has been defeated.

    You may not include cards that mass target only the colors or color affinities of your opponents. For example, Black may include Ascendant Evincar because it harms all other players equally, and white may include white knight because it's not mass targeting black in a harmful way. White may not include Karma because it's geared to only harm Black, just as Black may not include Gloom. Single target effects are fine, such as Blue Elemental Blast.

    Creatures are alive, with your allies permission you may move a creature into an ally's territory. For example black could move a Black Knight into blue's territory granting the blue player control over that creature permanently. Play this ability as a sorcery and treat that creature as though it were just summoned. (note, it wasn't, comes into play effects do not trigger, comes under your control effects do). In addition creatures that were just summoned cannot be moved to another player's territory unless they have haste.

    Creatures have a range of two; direction matters. For example, black may attack white via blue's territory but not through red and green's territory unless one of those players has been defeated. Note: your allies may choose to block your creatures if they would harm another of their allies, but only if those creatures would pass through their territory.

    Any player may counter your spells or prevent their effects if they would harm themselves or their allies. This rule gets weird. For example blue may counter a drain life targeted at white or unsummon a creature attacking white but may not just counter a creature that black casts or unsummon black's permanents without permission. The harm needs to be direct and imminent e.g. a creature actively attacking or a spell that would deal damage to an ally. Remember, this rule does not get broken by players playing spells that indirectly harm allies because cards like gloom are banned. You may not however blow up a card like Feroz's Ban that your ally controls without their permission, this card harms all players/other players equally (depending on the card). Cards that harm all opponents may be targeted presuming one of those opponents is your ally. For example if white is no-longer in the game, blue may not counter black's Cower in Fear nor blow up Liliana's Caress.

    You may cast spells that only target/affect you or permanents you control at/as your ally, provided they will not resolve into permanents and your ally allows it. For example you could cast Akroma's Blessing as if your ally had cast it. You may not cast planeswalkers, creatures, etc as if an ally cast them. Only instant and sorcery spells.

    Planeswalkers are NOT creatures (unless they are) and may use abilities as soon as they come into play. Because of this, they can also be moved with the same rules as creatures, but may do so any time the controlling player could play a sorcery even if the planeswalker came under their control that turn.
    Last edited by KaylinBDF; 2013-08-08 at 02:06 AM.

  9. #729
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Has anyone here got any experience playing doomsday in Legacy?

    I'm talking about the Tendrils version, not the maniac one.
    I've been interested in the deck for a while now, and recently noticed that I've got almost the entire deck (only missing 3 Sensei's divining top and a time spiral, as well as 2 doomsday)

    I've been checking out the basic articles and forum posts on stormboards, and been goldfishing a bit. It's still really hard for me to determine a winning doomsday pile in a reasonable amount of time, though.

    If anyone else has played the deck, are there any tips that made the learning process easier/faster? Or is it (as i assume it is) just testing, testing, testing

    for the people who don't http://www.starcitygames.com/article...-Puzzling.html

    It has some doomsday puzzles at well
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  10. #730
    Herald of the Titans Naxere's Avatar
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    Is anyone else as excited as I am that M2013 and Innistrad will be rotating out of Standard in a little under two months?

    No More:
    Thragtusk, Falkenrath Aristocrat, Restoration Angel, Huntsmaster of the Fells, Snapcaster Mage, Thundermaw Hellkite, Bonfire of the Damned (and Miracles in general).

    I can't wait.

  11. #731
    Funny thing is Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite, and non Bonfire of the Damned miracles are not seeing as much play as they used to, although they are definitely prevalent enough, that is for sure. In the end those cards will just be replaced by new cards that you will love to see gone when the next rotation comes around and I am going to assume 5 of those cards will be the "god" cards, or at least 1 or 2 of them. Every season has cards that people can't wait to see gone.

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  12. #732
    Herald of the Titans Naxere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Funny thing is Thragtusk, Thundermaw Hellkite, and non Bonfire of the Damned miracles are not seeing as much play as they used to, although they are definitely prevalent enough, that is for sure. In the end those cards will just be replaced by new cards that you will love to see gone when the next rotation comes around and I am going to assume 5 of those cards will be the "god" cards, or at least 1 or 2 of them. Every season has cards that people can't wait to see gone.
    Yeah most of the Miracles never got off the ground in Standard for sure. I don't hate Thragtusk itself per se (even though I think it's on the high side of power level for Rare), it's the fact that it existed in the same window as Restoration Angel. I'm not sure which aggravated me more, seeing a Bonfire peeled off the top or trying to deal with a Thragtusk only to have an Angel flashed in to negate my removal, and gain a 3/4 flyer, 3/3 token, and 5 more life in the process.

  13. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by Erenax View Post
    Yeah most of the Miracles never got off the ground in Standard for sure. I don't hate Thragtusk itself per se (even though I think it's on the high side of power level for Rare), it's the fact that it existed in the same window as Restoration Angel. I'm not sure which aggravated me more, seeing a Bonfire peeled off the top or trying to deal with a Thragtusk only to have an Angel flashed in to negate my removal, and gain a 3/4 flyer, 3/3 token, and 5 more life in the process.
    I didn't play Standard this season, but I can imagine how annoying it was.

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  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by jvbastel View Post
    Has anyone here got any experience playing doomsday in Legacy?

    I'm talking about the Tendrils version, not the maniac one.
    I've been interested in the deck for a while now, and recently noticed that I've got almost the entire deck (only missing 3 Sensei's divining top and a time spiral, as well as 2 doomsday)

    I've been checking out the basic articles and forum posts on stormboards, and been goldfishing a bit. It's still really hard for me to determine a winning doomsday pile in a reasonable amount of time, though.

    If anyone else has played the deck, are there any tips that made the learning process easier/faster? Or is it (as i assume it is) just testing, testing, testing

    for the people who don't http://www.starcitygames.com/article...-Puzzling.html

    It has some doomsday puzzles at well
    You have to understand, you can't really just memorize the piles with doomsday. You can memorize the standard one (having led + top in play) that is ideas unbound->LED -> gitaxian probe -> LED -> burning wish, but to improvise on the spot you simply need to play quite often with it so that you can adapt the piles accordingly.

    People say that doomsday is a deck where you have two different opponents playing against you

  15. #735
    Rumor going around that this is what Polukranos does as well as another guy.

    Polukranos, World-Eater
    Legendary Creature - Hydra
    Monstrosity - , : Put X +1/+1 counters on Polukranos. Then, Polukranos deals damage equal to the number of counters put onto Polukranos this way among any number of target creatures. Those creatures deal damage to Polukranos equal to their power. Activate this ability only if there are no counters on Polukranos.
    5/5

    Some Boros guy 1wr
    Legendary
    3/2

    first strike, vigilance
    Heroic - Whenever cardname is the target of a spell you control, creeatures you control get +1/+1, and gain trample until end of turn.

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  16. #736
    It's a fake. We know that there are only 2 mechanic keywords in theros and that those are an old one and a retooled old one. That one is neither old nor new. The 3 other mechanics have no keyword.

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkle View Post
    It's a fake. We know that there are only 2 mechanic keywords in theros and that those are an old one and a retooled old one. That one is neither old nor new. The 3 other mechanics have no keyword.
    Which is why I said it is rumored. I am willing to believe both of the cards are real, but if they are not than nothing shall be lost. The second card I am thinking it is more fake than Polu as W/R giving trample is a little out of color.

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  18. #738
    Moderator Pendulous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Which is why I said it is rumored. I am willing to believe both of the cards are real, but if they are not than nothing shall be lost. The second card I am thinking it is more fake than Polu as W/R giving trample is a little out of color.
    Rare, but we just saw the pretty damn OP Legion Loyalist do it

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  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    Which is why I said it is rumored. I am willing to believe both of the cards are real, but if they are not than nothing shall be lost. The second card I am thinking it is more fake than Polu as W/R giving trample is a little out of color.
    You didn't get it. It is IMPOSSIBLE that at the same time both things are true. That has a mechanic word. WotC said there are only two mechanic words in theros, one is an old one, and one is an old one retooled with a different name. Monstrosity is not an old one, and it is not similar to any old one that was simply retouched and renamed.

    It is not possible for those to be true. It doesn't fit in with what we were told by MaRo already.

  20. #740
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkle View Post
    You didn't get it. It is IMPOSSIBLE that at the same time both things are true. That has a mechanic word. WotC said there are only two mechanic words in theros, one is an old one, and one is an old one retooled with a different name. Monstrosity is not an old one, and it is not similar to any old one that was simply retouched and renamed.

    It is not possible for those to be true. It doesn't fit in with what we were told by MaRo already.
    There are 5 mechanics in Theros, 3 new and 2 old with 2 of them being new keywords and 1 being retweaked, if that retweaked means it is new or old I would not know, so it is possible that one of them is Monstrosity. I am not saying it is true, just that it is rumored, and from a source that has been right in the past from what I have been reading.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendulous View Post
    Rare, but we just saw the pretty damn OP Legion Loyalist do it
    That is true, I forgot about that one. Red definitely doesn't grant trample very often.

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