Magic: the Gathering: the Thread

[Karrotlord]

So Emrakul, Smuggler's Copter, and Reflector Mage were banned in standard while modern lost Golgari Cave-Troll and Gitaxian Probe.

Thoughts?

[Zyster]

Are we allowed to talk about the board game here? Just recently started playing it again with my brothers and lurk MMO champ enough maybe it would be fun to talk about it.

[Dontrike]

Been thinking of making a janky Standard deck. Use Sram and a bunch of cheap equipment, use them to power out the the new demon with improvise, and just see what comes of it. A shame I can't make FNM.

I have also been thinking of a Modern deck. An Eggs variant using Pia's Revolution. Use the classic Eggs stuff, Bolt & Galvanic Blast, and if the person lets you reuse an egg enough time you can just Grapeshot them. I think I'll call it Burnt Eggs. A shame at the lack of time to get to FNM, but it would be nice to have a deck anyways.

So Emrakul, Smuggler's Copter, and Reflector Mage were banned in standard while modern lost Golgari Cave-Troll and Gitaxian Probe.

Thoughts?

Reflector Mage makes about zero sense. Their reasoning they have for banning it was "Reflector Mage has been on players' lists of most-disliked cards since the days of Collected Company". Sure Flash is strong, any control deck makes people irritated, but are we really banning a card because people just don't like it?

I'm not a fan of Probe banning, but WotC loves banning 1 mana draw spells so it isn't too surprising.

Are we allowed to talk about the board game here? Just recently started playing it again with my brothers and lurk MMO champ enough maybe it would be fun to talk about it.

It deal with Magic, so I can't see why not.

[Dontrike]

I do enjoy seeing random janky decks work.

[Dontrike]

Some actual news for once, we got our first screenshot of Magic Digital Next. I'm personally hoping this is just the update to MTGO that the game has been craving.

[Dontrike]

Looks like we got full art lands to look forward to in Amonkhet.

[Pendulous]

What's with the symbol on every one of em?

[Karrotlord]

What's with the symbol on every one of em?

Nicol Bolas rule over Amonkhet. Only makes sense he'd have some gaudy monument of himself for all to see. Even if it's just his horns.

[Dontrike]

What's with the symbol on every one of em?

The set symbol is a pyramid, but the horns are a sign of Bolas. He created the plane.

[Karrotlord]

Damnation and the Zendikar fetches are finally getting reprinted!!

[Dontrike]

Damnation and the Zendikar fetches are finally getting reprinted!!

Not to mention Goblin Guide, Venser (creature), and Ranger of Eos.

[Karrotlord]

I'm actually building a Soul Sisters deck and could stand Ranger dropping a few bucks.

And then there's Snapcaster Mage. MM2017 is coming outta the gate swinging.

[Dontrike]

I'm actually building a Soul Sisters deck and could stand Ranger dropping a few bucks.

And then there's Snapcaster Mage. MM2017 is coming outta the gate swinging.

Snapcaster being mythic is the first real disappointment of the set, albeit it an unsurprising one. The set looks good so far, but then again so did MM2 and EMA until all the cards were shown, then things got bad real fast. I'm keeping my expectations low, just in case.

[Will]

Can I just ask why everyone still uses Gatherer instead of Magiccards.info? I've always found .info to be way better, faster, bigger artwork, better search syntax, just overall cleaner and a much better reference.

[jackofwind]

Can this block go die already?

Aether Revolt did nothing to change the stagnancy and utter beige-ness of Kaladesh. I'm pining extremely hard for Gatecrash/x/x and Theros/x/x right about now.

[endersblade]

Can this block go die already?

Aether Revolt did nothing to change the stagnancy and utter beige-ness of Kaladesh. I'm pining extremely hard for Gatecrash/x/x and Theros/x/x right about now.

I just wish they'd start printing standard sets as powerful as MM2017 is turning out to be. We haven't seen a power level like that in a long, long time. They don't have to do it with every set, but at least once or twice a year would be nice.

[Dontrike]

I just wish they'd start printing standard sets as powerful as MM2017 is turning out to be. We haven't seen a power level like that in a long, long time. They don't have to do it with every set, but at least once or twice a year would be nice.

MM3 isn't as strong as people are thinking. Once the surprise and disappointment settle down and you really look at it this set still falls short of MM1, albeit this is as close as they've gotten between this, MM2, and EMA. The set is good, but not as amazing as most are making it out to be. This is really just a strong core set.

[downnola]

MM3 isn't as strong as people are thinking. Once the surprise and disappointment settle down and you really look at it this set still falls short of MM1, albeit this is as close as they've gotten between this, MM2, and EMA. The set is good, but not as amazing as most are making it out to be. This is really just a strong core set.

You're going to have to explain how a set with Tarmogoyf, Liliana of the Veil, Griselbrand, Damnation, Blood Moon, Cruel Ultimatum, Snapcaster Mage, and enemy fetches isn't among the strongest sets they've ever printed. The only modern era set I can think of with this amount of raw power is New Phyrexia. It's fairly obvious Modern Masters 2017 is a fan service set and a way for FNM organizers to get asses into seats after the massive drop in attendance. They fucked up with the new standard rotation and they know it.

[Dontrike]

You're going to have to explain how a set with Tarmogoyf, Liliana of the Veil, Griselbrand, Damnation, Blood Moon, Cruel Ultimatum, Snapcaster Mage, and enemy fetches isn't among the strongest sets they've ever printed. The only modern era set I can think of with this amount of raw power is New Phyrexia. It's fairly obvious Modern Masters 2017 is a fan service set and a way for FNM organizers to get asses into seats after the massive drop in attendance. They fucked up with the new standard rotation and they know it.

1. Fetches are not all that strong. They only become incredibly amazing when there are nonbasics with two land types. During Onslaught, Zendikar, and Khans, they were nothing more than a way to thin your deck, which only add fractions of a percent towards getting something else you really want. It was only after Khans where BFZ appeared and made them stupid good. Wizards themselves said they would never do fetches and shocks because it would be too strong and yet they went ahead and did it anyways. Fetches in a limited set are about as strong as Goyf in a limited setting, not so much.

2. Lily V is strong, no doubt, but the fact that she almost appeared in Standard shows she isn't the best thing ever. Even during Innistrad when she first showed up you could get her for less than $20 ($18 by the time M13 released 9 months later) because she was just okay. The only reason she didn't show up in Standard again is when they tried to bring her back meant a year of mono black dominating thanks to Mono Black Devotion. Had there not been a black deck dominating she would been in Standard again and did just as much then as it did before. She is amazing in sets where you have other incredible strategies going around, but in Standard she doesn't do a whole lot.

3. Griselbrand is strong, but only when you can cheat him out. After that he was just good in Standard, nothing spectacular. Control decks used him, but they were lucky they could activate him when they finally got him down. Nephalia Drownyard was a better finisher than he was most of the time. There's a reason he was only $12 right before MM3, because he wasn't played often and only in cases where you can cheat him out.

4. Blood Moon is only incredibly good when you are in an environment with nonbasics running amok, a.k.a Legacy and Modern (and some Standard rotations when it gets to 4 or 5 colors). There are plenty of Standard rotations where Blood Moon would have been decent. Price is a reason why people think its always strong. Blood Moon was $5 back during 8th Ed. because it barely did a thing and nonbasics didn't make the world of Magic go round.

5. Damnation is strong, but so is Day of Judgement, Supreme Verdict, and Wrath of God. Would you be this excited if they instead reprinted Wrath of God or Supreme Verdict? No, you wouldn't, because they didn't have a $60+ price tag. Damnation is only barely better than DoJ, just as strong as Wrath, and arguably weaker than Verdict. Damnation is only special because of the status that the community gives it, not because of some power it holds.

6. I'll give you Goyf (with the unfortunate side effect of being mythic), Snapcaster (with the unfortunate side effect of being mythic), and Cruel Ultimatum, but you cannot let excitement blind you. Yes, those 7 cards are all strong, but I'm not going to get super excited for them FINALLY getting around to giving us a decent Masters product after 4 years. Conspiracy 2 did just as good, but didn't come along with those annoying $10 packs and boxes filled with 12 less boosters.

Remember Show and Tell and Berserk? Burgeoning, Burning Wish, Inquisition of Kozilek, Ghostly Prison, a functional reprint of Imperial Recruiter (with Recruiter of the Guard), Serum Visions. We just had a set last year that did the reprint set just as well, with only half a set dedicated to reprints, but didn't cost you $40+ to draft it.

You're only seeing the cards, rather than the big picture. Had MM3 been $7 and boxes with 36 boosters then it could compete with MM1, and while it will have a bigger print run (and maybe that rumored 5x print run, which hasn't been substantiated) MM1 is still better, not by a huge lead, but it is still enough. You're excited mostly because of the price increase, I like the set because this will help the community as a whole, but even if I like something doesn't mean I can't be critical of it.

- - - Updated - - -

We know the face cards of the next Duel Decks.

[downnola]

1. Fetches are not all that strong. They only become incredibly amazing when there are nonbasics with two land types. During Onslaught, Zendikar, and Khans, they were nothing more than a way to thin your deck, which only add fractions of a percent towards getting something else you really want. It was only after Khans where BFZ appeared and made them stupid good. Wizards themselves said they would never do fetches and shocks because it would be too strong and yet they went ahead and did it anyways. Fetches in a limited set are about as strong as Goyf in a limited setting, not so much.

2. Lily V is strong, no doubt, but the fact that she almost appeared in Standard shows she isn't the best thing ever. Even during Innistrad when she first showed up you could get her for less than $20 ($18 by the time M13 released 9 months later) because she was just okay. The only reason she didn't show up in Standard again is when they tried to bring her back meant a year of mono black dominating thanks to Mono Black Devotion. Had there not been a black deck dominating she would been in Standard again and did just as much then as it did before. She is amazing in sets where you have other incredible strategies going around, but in Standard she doesn't do a whole lot.

3. Griselbrand is strong, but only when you can cheat him out. After that he was just good in Standard, nothing spectacular. Control decks used him, but they were lucky they could activate him when they finally got him down. Nephalia Drownyard was a better finisher than he was most of the time. There's a reason he was only $12 right before MM3, because he wasn't played often and only in cases where you can cheat him out.

4. Blood Moon is only incredibly good when you are in an environment with nonbasics running amok, a.k.a Legacy and Modern (and some Standard rotations when it gets to 4 or 5 colors). There are plenty of Standard rotations where Blood Moon would have been decent. Price is a reason why people think its always strong. Blood Moon was $5 back during 8th Ed. because it barely did a thing and nonbasics didn't make the world of Magic go round.

5. Damnation is strong, but so is Day of Judgement, Supreme Verdict, and Wrath of God. Would you be this excited if they instead reprinted Wrath of God or Supreme Verdict? No, you wouldn't, because they didn't have a $60+ price tag. Damnation is only barely better than DoJ, just as strong as Wrath, and arguably weaker than Verdict. Damnation is only special because of the status that the community gives it, not because of some power it holds.

6. I'll give you Goyf (with the unfortunate side effect of being mythic), Snapcaster (with the unfortunate side effect of being mythic), and Cruel Ultimatum, but you cannot let excitement blind you. Yes, those 7 cards are all strong, but I'm not going to get super excited for them FINALLY getting around to giving us a decent Masters product after 4 years. Conspiracy 2 did just as good, but didn't come along with those annoying $10 packs and boxes filled with 12 less boosters.

Remember Show and Tell and Berserk? Burgeoning, Burning Wish, Inquisition of Kozilek, Ghostly Prison, a functional reprint of Imperial Recruiter (with Recruiter of the Guard), Serum Visions. We just had a set last year that did the reprint set just as well, with only half a set dedicated to reprints, but didn't cost you $40+ to draft it.

You're only seeing the cards, rather than the big picture. Had MM3 been $7 and boxes with 36 boosters then it could compete with MM1, and while it will have a bigger print run (and maybe that rumored 5x print run, which hasn't been substantiated) MM1 is still better, not by a huge lead, but it is still enough. You're excited mostly because of the price increase, I like the set because this will help the community as a whole, but even if I like something doesn't mean I can't be critical of it.

You're jumping through some hoops here to downplay the power level of these cards.

1. Of course, most of the power of fetches come from grabbing other dual lands, that's why they're highly represented in legacy and modern. However, they're versatile lands in a set that is obviously made to support Alara shard decks and also have synergies with cards like Primal Command and Goyf.

2. Demand isn't a good indicator of how strong a card is. For example, nobody had any respect for Necropotence until people learned how to play with it. I'm not really sure why you're saying the card didn't do anything in standard either; Lily saw plenty of use in Jund.

3. Again, demand isn't a good indicator of a card's power level. Griselbrand is still one of the biggest and baddest bombs in the game even if there aren't many decks in modern that currently utilize the card.

4. Blood Moon is considered strong because it's often a free win for red/x decks. It might not be good in every situation, but it's a powerful card that often ends games after it's played.

5. The difference between Day of Judgement and Damnation is that the latter is a Wrath of God in a color other than white. Black removal focuses on sac effects, discard, -X/X effects, and single target creature destruction. A Wrath of God effect in black opens up options for black control decks that they would only have if they played white. That's an incredibly powerful effect for black to have and is the reason why people have wanted it reprinted for so long.

The cards I listed aren't the only good cards in the set either: Mystical Teachings, Goblin Guide, Inquisition of Kozilek, Terminate, Lingering Souls, Primal Command, etc, are also great cards. I think the main problem you have with the set, and rightly so, is the price tag. I understand the annoyance of the high MSRP, but I think you're trying to downplay the strength of the set because of the price.

I don't blame you, I was ready to get back into modern until I saw the price tag. I haven't played magic since KtK standard, but I planned on drafting this set after I saw some of the spoilers. I'm still on the fence about it, tbh.

Whatever I do, I know I won't be playing standard anytime soon.