1. #1

    [MW] Int vs Crit

    I've been calculating stuff and I'm rather unsure if crit actually improves the healing amount more then int does. (taking into account that 1int = 2crit). Which of the 2 stats is the best for healing throughput discarding the crit = additional mana tea passive.

  2. #2
    It actually depends on your gear, the more spellpower you have in relation to crit the stronger crit becomes.
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  3. #3
    Approx 52000 Spellpower and 40% crit raidbuffed.. I figured Int was best at this point

  4. #4
    Dreadlord Geodew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennix View Post
    Approx 52000 Spellpower and 40% crit raidbuffed.. I figured Int was best at this point
    52k spellpower? Then crit is probably way better for you. Check http://www.temerityofwindrunner.com/...aver/calc.html weights though, 2xcrit is probably > int for all your main spells

    For me (43k spellpower, 34% crit, yeah I got a lot of Mastery), 2 crit >= 1 int for everything except T30 talents and CJL. Note that cooldowns are not listed; Life Cocoon and Revival usually favor int.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2013-10-13 at 07:35 PM.

  5. #5
    Dont forget, the more crit you have the better int gets!
    It seems to be relativly balanced on the amounts that are feasable on our equip.
    That means with both 45k sp / 35% crit (t15) and 52k sp / 40% crit (now) int and crit are relativly similar in value, whereas with 10k int and 80% crit: int would be clearly superior, and at 60k sp and 10% crit: crit is clearly superior (Numbers are purely illustrational)

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Geodew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    Dont forget, the more crit you have the better int gets!
    It seems to be relativly balanced on the amounts that are feasable on our equip.
    That means with both 45k sp / 35% crit (t15) and 52k sp / 40% crit (now) int and crit are relativly similar in value, whereas with 10k int and 80% crit: int would be clearly superior, and at 60k sp and 10% crit: crit is clearly superior (Numbers are purely illustrational)
    T15? My average equipped is 553, and 2/2 T15 heroics are 543 :P

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    T15? My average equipped is 553, and 2/2 T15 heroics are 543 :P
    what? didn't say anything about ilvls

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Geodew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    what? didn't say anything about ilvls
    I was saying your "T15" numbers sound more like what you'd have in full T16N is all.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Geodew View Post
    I was saying your "T15" numbers sound more like what you'd have in full T16N is all.
    I said the numbers where for pure illustrational purpuse and thus not 100% accurate. but of course I meant fully buffed, and I thought that's what I had round about at the end just before 5.4, but I may be mistaking

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Geodew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    I said the numbers where for pure illustrational purpuse and thus not 100% accurate. but of course I meant fully buffed, and I thought that's what I had round about at the end just before 5.4, but I may be mistaking
    Thought you meant the last two pairs of numbers were illustrational. Gotcha now I think.

  11. #11
    The general consensus is that int is better for cooldowns, while crit helps with mana tea generation. Overall they seem relatively equal in terms of stat budget vs output. I gemmed exclusively int through t15. However, i have switched to gemming primarily crit very recently. and the reason for this is simple:

    PRISMATIC PRISON OF PRIDE TRINKET

    The possession of this trinket (or immerseus one) makes the choice between int and crit much more clear.

    It essentially increases scaling of crit by 9%, while leaving int untouched. this does not affect mana tea, but does affect overall throughput. If you have this trinket, gem crit! int socket bonuses are still probably worth it. Either way, this trinket is the game changer when it comes to gearing.
    Last edited by billz; 2013-10-16 at 10:38 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by billz View Post
    The general consensus is that int is better for cooldowns, while crit helps with mana tea generation. Overall they seem relatively equal in terms of stat budget vs output. I gemmed exclusively int through t15. However, i have switched to gemming primarily crit very recently. and the reason for this is simple:

    PRISMATIC PRISON OF PRIDE TRINKET

    The possession of this trinket (or immerseus one) makes the choice between int and crit much more clear.

    It essentially increases scaling of crit by 9%, while leaving int untouched. this does not affect mana tea, but does affect overall throughput. If you have this trinket, gem crit! int socket bonuses are still probably worth it. Either way, this trinket is the game changer when it comes to gearing.
    Int gives crit, also stronger heals that crit also benefit from 9% more healing.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    Int gives crit, also stronger heals that crit also benefit from 9% more healing.
    its a 4.5% heal increase to 35-40% of your healing. (new crit multiplier is 2.09 with trinket. which is 4.5% more than the usual 2.0 crit multiplier)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    its a 4.5% heal increase to 35-40% of your healing. (new crit multiplier is 2.09 with trinket. which is 4.5% more than the usual 2.0 crit multiplier)
    I know, that's not my point
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  15. #15
    Dreadlord Geodew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    Int gives crit, also stronger heals that crit also benefit from 9% more healing.
    Yeah. I think his conclusion may still be right though; the intuition is there: Int and crit are pretty close pre-trinket. Int affects your base healing amount and thus crit healing amount (with a small crit chance gain), and crit affects the chance of crit healing occurring. So intellect doesn't totally benefit from the trinket due to the "non-crit healing amount" part. Crit benefits from the trinket wholly.

    Of course, I don't know if I would call this literally a "game-changer." Most informed people were already gearing for crit AFAIK. :P

    In 10-man at least, Revival is still a decent hit (and int stacking won't make it dramatically better) and Life Cocoon lasts longer.
    Last edited by Geodew; 2013-10-16 at 08:58 PM.

  16. #16
    Yeah went with the crit build for siegecrafter last night. had about 5% more overhealing. uplift was actually hitting for LESS than with the int build (even with a 3ilvl upgrade). i know i probably dont play 100% optimally, but who does? Guess my crit-trinket hypothesis was wrong. probably going to go back to an int build for tonight. Didnt feel any strain/benefit on my mana anyways. id link the logs but mmo champ won't let me.

    world of logs /reports/rt-w3outiiuu0qlfzmw/details/7/?enc=bosses&boss=71504 (CRIT BUILD)
    world of logs /reports/4tov8dhync9vckkd/details/2/?enc=bosses&boss=71504 (MONDAY INT BUILD)

    reglitch/geodew if you could take a look at these for me id love you forever...

    P.s. theory is one thing. but practice is another. id like to see if other mw monks have had similar results
    Last edited by billz; 2013-10-17 at 01:11 PM.

  17. #17
    The problem with practice is that two logs aren't enough to be certain.
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  18. #18
    Dreadlord Geodew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reglitch View Post
    The problem with practice is that two logs aren't enough to be certain.
    ^This, the value of theorycraft is that you can compute an average, whereas RNG can make logs swing wildly. I've seen N TF'd Chalice do anywhere from 0.6% to 8% of my HPS. Could be just that you got less lucky with ReM targets.

    Int vs crit playstyle shouldn't change.

    Also remember that crit makes you crit more often, but int makes you crit harder, and you're going to crit no matter what, so int adds to overheal too. But again, burst is what's important. Since we have infinite mana, who cares how much overhealing you're doing when the raid is close to topped off?

  19. #19
    Hey billz
    Additionaly what the above posters said, theres the fact that we dont have much int we can freely chose to change to crit.
    Most socketbonusses are worth taking, so we only can choose half the stat budget of about 16 sockets.
    Thats for example maybe 1280 int you can convert to 2560 crit. And as both stats are relativly close in value, you wont see much of an absolute difference by switching from one to the other (probably nearer to 0.1% than 1% more total hps) Also manawise youre talking about maybe 1-3 additional stacks of manatea in a whole fight(time+fight dependant ofc) generated by the extra crit, you wont activly feel any difderence. You just have to live with the assumption that youre doing the right thing
    Last edited by TheTrueM4gg0t; 2013-10-18 at 08:01 AM.

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