Will Gw2 become the "chill, hang around and inbetween games" mmorpg?

[thewallofsleep]

And again: saying things like that just plain isn't constructive. It contributes nothing to the thread, at all, and serves no purpose than to blatantly insult a member of the community that you hate entirely because of his post count, and the fact that he enjoys discussing a game that he plays.

There's also nothing involving rose-tinted glasses to objectively point out that GW2 has more content at max level than vanilla WoW did. The phrase "rose tinted glasses" doesn't even apply here, when you consider the simple fact that this game has only been out for two weeks.

I wasn't aware that I was "blatantly" insulting you. I certainly didn't feel like I was insulting you. Maybe trying to take you down a peg and make you realize you've been on the soap box a bit too long, but definitely not insult you. I'm sorry. I'll stop now.

Yes, GW2 has only been out for 10 days or whatever and WoW has been around for like 8 years. Regardless, comparing the amount of "end game" in GW2 to Vanilla WoW is pointless, because GW2 is most likely going to be compared to WoW (and other MMO's) in their current state. Not the state they were in 8 years ago. Maybe that isn't fair, but it's true. Furthermore, most (subjective perspective time) current WoW players aren't considering end game content from previous expansions to be current end game content, so I wouldn't use that as rationale that GW2 has more of said content (what ever the hell "end game" even really consists of from game to game). I'd say both have about the same amount to do, but I haven't really dug into GW2 yet (just got the chance to play a beta weekend for being a Curse preemie member).

On another note, if I could get my hands on a copy of GW2 I'd buy it.

[Vespian]

You all realize that by "more content at max level" I'm referring to the fact that you can realistically do anything and everything anywhere in the game, and are not specifically restricted to max level content to get the good stuff, right? I can't go run Maraudon for max level gear, in WoW.

By virtue of that single fact, it has more max level content, objectively. Whether or not you VALUE that form of content is another subjective story entirely.

And what does this add, really? Because if you're running "a place" you'll most likely be running the same place over and over once everyone is level 80, since there will always be a more popular instance in the entire game. In other words, it's relevant up till the point everyone just wants to complete things as fast as possible, which normally isn't a whole lot further than 3,4, months from launch.

[Deleted]

lol guys, are you serioussly trying conversation with Drake? You would be better with convincing wall to move aside. This one is a fanboy to the core.

[Vespian]

lol guys, are you serioussly trying conversation with Drake? You would be better with convincing wall to move aside. This one is a fanboy to the core.

Oh yes, we mentioned that a few times already, but as long as the wall is trying to make sense regardless of being immovable, it's still interesting

[DrakeWurrum]

lol guys, are you serioussly trying conversation with Drake? You would be better with convincing wall to move aside. This one is a fanboy to the core.

*sighs* If you are at all familiar with my posts, you would very vividly remember how much I've complained about tiered traits, about the cliched story writing, and about how bland and ineffective the talking heads style is. Hell, I just last night/this morning started a thread to complain about jumping puzzles not being rewarded enough.

You have absolutely no ground to call me a fanboy, just because I happen to be making positive/supportive opinion statements about a game that you don't agree with.

---------- Post added 2012-09-08 at 01:10 PM ----------

I wasn't aware that I was "blatantly" insulting you. I certainly didn't feel like I was insulting you

I really don't buy that, considering you went out of your way to derail this thread off the actual topic to specifically "call me out" for apparently saying anything good about this game, as if it's blasphemy.

You are seriously the ultimate Guild Wars 2 fan. I can't imagine spending as much time as you do talking about and/or defending a game, rather than actually playing it.

Very much a statement that serves no purpose other than to stir up shit and insult somebody.

[Deleted]

Dude, not to rain on your parade, but you can have rose tinted glasses about an icecream that lasted as long as it took you to eat it. It's not really defined in terms of time. That said, Cosmetics vs actual gear in end-game content is a tough cookie. WoW vanilla had their first dungeon set after a month or two, but it also took people a little more time to level. Raids were introduced shortly after. Even without those blue sets, most dungeons provided upgrades and therefore incentive. Cosmetics are not an incentive. At least, not for me, nor for a whole lot of people I know. They're filler content. They don't matter. It's just fluff.

I also always wonder what a completionist is. I've never, ever, understood people that want all the pokemon, all the achievements, all the minipets, because apart from the pokemon, it doesn't add gameplay value.

The problem with saying "rose tinted glasses" is that it's dismissing his OPINION and setting your own up as FACT. All that does is make you look like a flametard not really interested in a discussion, just trying to shout louder than someone else. If DrakeWurrum is playing the game RIGHT NOW and enjoys it, who is anyone to tell him that he's not.

Also, completionist is a legit way to play a game. You realise it's also a very popular gameplay choice and the reason things like achievements exist on most consoles and in most PC arenas too (Steam chieves, WoW chieves etc). Achievement points don't *count* for anything, you can't spend them so they only have value to people who care about them. A lot of people (myself included) don't believe you can claim to have completed a game until you've done everything there is to do.

Going back to my WoW example, once you kill Madness Heroic ONCE you have finished the content. People still farm their BiS set, achievements etc though because that's how they can say they've completed everything there is to do in their particular arena of play. Same thing with Altoholics. To play the game you only need 1 character. Some people want 1 of every class at 85, some wants 1 of every spec and roll more than 10 alts.

Similarly if you play Deus Ex Human Revolution on Story mode, you finished the story but you didn't complete the game; you haven't done it with 100% stealthplay with no kills, you haven't done it on the hardest setting for the true experience. You haven't even experienced all of the different side-quests or conversations since there are so many branching options.

GW2 has a lot of draw for completionists with the World Explorer badge, PvP account badges, badges for doing all 3 faction lines, cool looking sets to get holds of, personal legendary weapons etc.

That may not add value TO YOU, but you can't state it doesn't add gameplay value because it clearly does for a large group of people and it's the reason pokémon is marketed with a line like "gotta catch 'em all" and things like achievements exist in the first place.

[Vespian]

*sighs* If you are at all familiar with my posts, you would very vividly remember how much I've complained about tiered traits, about the cliched story writing, and about how bland and ineffective the talking heads style is. Hell, I just last night/this morning started a thread to complain about jumping puzzles not being rewarded enough.

You have absolutely no ground to call me a fanboy, just because I happen to be making positive/supportive opinion statements about a game that you don't agree with.

Sounds like a luxury problem. Jumping quests don't reward enough? Oh come on. That's just the consumer in you talking. I thought you were a completionist, you know, do it for the glory.

[Deleted]

lol guys, are you serioussly trying conversation with Drake? You would be better with convincing wall to move aside. This one is a fanboy to the core.

Seems that being a gw2 fanboy is a problem in this forum. While being a fanboy of some other mmo is no problem at all. The fanboy term is thrown around like candy in this sub forum, while in the other forus is no problem at all being a fanboy(insert your favourite game here).

[Vespian]

The problem with saying "rose tinted glasses" is that it's dismissing his OPINION and setting your own up as FACT. All that does is make you look like a flametard not really interested in a discussion, just trying to shout louder than someone else. If DrakeWurrum is playing the game RIGHT NOW and enjoys it, who is anyone to tell him that he's not.

Also, completionist is a legit way to play a game. You realise it's also a very popular gameplay choice and the reason things like achievements exist on most consoles and in most PC arenas too (Steam chieves, WoW chieves etc). Achievement points don't *count* for anything, you can't spend them so they only have value to people who care about them. A lot of people (myself included) don't believe you can claim to have completed a game until you've done everything there is to do.

Similarly going back to my WoW example, once you kill Madness Heroic ONCE you have finished the content. People still farm their BiS set, achievements etc though because that's how they can say they've completed everything there is to do in their particular arena of play.

For example if you play Deus Ex Human Revolution on Story mode, you finished the story but you didn't complete the game; you haven't done it with 100% stealthplay with no kills, you haven't done it on the hardest setting for the true experience. You haven't even experienced all of the different side-quests or conversations since there are so many branching options.

- Of course it's legit (?), I just think people that actually play that junkfood game lack some cells
- Playing DEHR in any way, regardless of getting an achievement or not, adds gameplay value.

Seems that being a gw2 fanboy is a problem in this forum. While being a fanboy of some other mmo is no problem at all. The fanboy term is thrown around like candy in this sub forum, while in the other forus is no problem at all being a fanboy(insert your favourite game here).

Oh give it a break, it's a problem in any forum. That's why there's a word for it.

[Deleted]

- Of course it's legit (?), I just think people that actually play that junkfood game lack some cells
- Playing DEHR in any way, regardless of getting an achievement or not, adds gameplay value.

So you read my post and go "hurr hurr people who like completing games r dumb". Got it, no real points being made by you.

Here's a question for you, have you ever gone after a Glory of the ____ Raider achievement in WoW?

[Vespian]

So you read my post and go "hurr hurr people who like completing games r dumb". Got it, no real points being made by you.

Here's a question for you, have you ever gone after a Glory of the ____ Raider achievement in WoW?

Of course not, I don't care about achievements. I think I had the larger part of ICC 25 HC before the 10 or 15% buff though. Not sure, since, as I said, I don't really care I don't understand, cannot comprehend, the mindset it seems to need. Which is most likely something wrong with me, since a lot of people enjoy playing games such as Trivia, but useless facts do not stick in my mind. I just don't care. I always end with 0 points

Doing achievements is like standing in the longer/st line at the supermarket, on purpose. idontunderstand?

[Deleted]

The next person to call anyone a fanboy, make any sort of insulting or derogatory or personal comment is going to earn themselves an infraction. Please keep it on topic, if you have a problem with someone, don't post just to have a dig at them.

[thewallofsleep]

I really don't buy that, considering you went out of your way to derail this thread off the actual topic to specifically "call me out" for apparently saying anything good about this game, as if it's blasphemy.

Very much a statement that serves no purpose other than to stir up shit and insult somebody.

Alright, alright. I said I was sorry. I also said I wasn't intentionally attempting to insult you. How you interpret my posts is your decision (and my own fault for expressing my opinion/making an observation on a message board). As I'd rather not get 'fracted, I won't make anymore comments which could further implicate me as a troublemaker.

[Aleksej89]

GW2 and GW1 are designed as casual games for most of it's members, hence the no-subscription style of payment.

The folks who made GW1/2 are smart enough to realize they do not want to copy/paste WoW or compete with it (like SWToR and other failures tried and lost) - instead, they made something that can coexist with a lot of other games/MMOs and made it affordable by almost anyone.

If you are looking for WoW in GW2, you will NOT find it.
If you are looking for casual fun with casual "gaming goals", you will be happy with GW2 - even more so after they patch it up a tad.

[Repefe]

lol guys, are you serioussly trying conversation with Drake? You would be better with convincing wall to move aside. This one is a fanboy to the core.

Still better to be a fanboy than 24/7 pessimist some ppl around here have going for them

[Vespian]

GW2 and GW1 are designed as casual games for most of it's members, hence the no-subscription style of payment.

The folks who made GW1/2 are smart enough to realize they do not want to copy/paste WoW or compete with it (like SWToR and other failures tried and lost) - instead, they made something that can coexist with a lot of other games/MMOs and made it affordable by almost anyone.

If you are looking for WoW in GW2, you will NOT find it.
If you are looking for casual fun with casual "gaming goals", you will be happy with GW2 - even more so after they patch it up a tad.

That's simply not true. GW1 was a hardcore pvp game that simply had a different business model, hence the buy2play + cash shop. GW was also never meant to compete with wow persé. The comparison isn't relevant.

[clevin]

Oh well. I do use damage meter and read combat log regularly, but you know I play main healer so my view of the world might be a bit... differ from you.

The damage meter has a single useful purpose: to determine if one's DPS is sufficient to make it through the encounter first time, and do it again comfortably during farm runs....

Wrong. I play both DPS and healer in WoW, and as a DPS the meters are important for figuring out whether spec A is better than spec B or whether a talent choice within specs is better than another. In a group meters will let people see who needs to improve. If you're in a 10 person raid with 5 DPS and one person is significantly under the others they're not carrying their weight and even if the raid is winning the fights having that person improve can make kills cleaner and less stressful on others.

Of course, meters can also be used to show off, be a jerk, etc. But that's not the fault of the tool, it's the fault of the person wielding it.

On topic, my main fear about GW2 is that it will not really be massively multiplayer - that people will level, screw around a bit at 80 and then go away. We'll know in 6 months. By then the initial wave of enthusiasm will be over. If people stick around it will be a success. If not, then even if everyone feels it was a lot of fun and worth the money, it will be a failure as an MMO. MMOs really need two things to succeed as games (not talking about money) - a persistent world and a populated world. They have the first. The players will determine if they can maintain the second.

[Vespian]

Wrong. I play both DPS and healer in WoW, and as a DPS the meters are important for figuring out whether spec A is better than spec B or whether a talent choice within specs is better than another. In a group meters will let people see who needs to improve. If you're in a 10 person raid with 5 DPS and one person is significantly under the others they're not carrying their weight and even if the raid is winning the fights having that person improve can make kills cleaner and less stressful on others.

This is absolutely, absolutely incredibly, wrong. The damage meter is the result of theory crafting + human interaction and therefore ultimately not a tool to be used to gain information on "the ultimate spec". Human interaction is a very, very unstable variable and should never be used as a means to proof a point.

If theoretically spec A is the better spec, but very hard to execute and you have two players and the bad one uses spec A and gets worse results than in Spec B, spec B is not per definition the better spec. I hope you are not blind to this.

The only reason you want to use a dps meter, is to filter out the people that are having problems, one way or the other, and to see whether you can complete the encounter based on the sum of your numbers.

This is a major offtopic, but I just wanted to make this clear.

[kronpas]

Wrong. I play both DPS and healer in WoW, and as a DPS the meters are important for figuring out whether spec A is better than spec B or whether a talent choice within specs is better than another. In a group meters will let people see who needs to improve. If you're in a 10 person raid with 5 DPS and one person is significantly under the others they're not carrying their weight and even if the raid is winning the fights having that person improve can make kills cleaner and less stressful on others.

Of course, meters can also be used to show off, be a jerk, etc. But that's not the fault of the tool, it's the fault of the person wielding it.

On topic, my main fear about GW2 is that it will not really be massively multiplayer - that people will level, screw around a bit at 80 and then go away. We'll know in 6 months. By then the initial wave of enthusiasm will be over. If people stick around it will be a success. If not, then even if everyone feels it was a lot of fun and worth the money, it will be a failure as an MMO. MMOs really need two things to succeed as games (not talking about money) - a persistent world and a populated world. They have the first. The players will determine if they can maintain the second.

There is no wrong opinion, yours cant be superior to mine. Its simply my way of seeing the tool differing from yours. Usually I set a certain mark that dpses in my raid must pass to progress, then a higher one for farm runs. Whoever s below that mark certainly needs to improve, but I dont really care if one is miles above of that "comfortable mark". If they choose to play competitively upon meter number, thats fine to me but it s absolutely not a requirement to participate in my raid.

And back to topic: GW2 dont need a meter. There is almost no bersek timer, each class contribute differently even though they can all dps. Why force one to drop his support/control traits/skills just to be able to dps competitively? This is no WOW, where a dps care not about healing nor tanking, just his own survival in group fights. I think WoW pvp is more similar, although not that extreme.

[DrakeWurrum]

This is absolutely, absolutely incredibly, wrong. The damage meter is the result of theory crafting + human interaction and therefore ultimately not a tool to be used to gain information on "the ultimate spec". Human interaction is a very, very unstable variable and should never be used as a means to proof a point.

If theoretically spec A is the better spec, but very hard to execute and you have two players and the bad one uses spec A and gets worse results than in Spec B, spec B is not per definition the better spec. I hope you are not blind to this.

The only reason you want to use a dps meter, is to filter out the people that are having problems, one way or the other, and to see whether you can complete the encounter based on the sum of your numbers.

This is a major offtopic, but I just wanted to make this clear.

Somebody has never used simcraft. Which isn't exactly a dps meter, but I see it as an extension along the same goals.

---------- Post added 2012-09-08 at 03:32 PM ----------

There is no wrong opinion

Funny thing about that is, if you're wrong, it's no longer an opinion at all, but simply an incorrect statement. Not that I necessarily disagree with your post. I'm just tired of people using "there's no wrong opinion" as some sort of defense.