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  1. #41
    The Patient
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    It's not pay to win, it's pay to bypass all the cripple stuff that's in the game.
    Also gold sinks everywhere to keep the economy stable yet you can buy gold...

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    So I guess the term "pay to win" doesn't even exist because in every game you buy things you just do things faster. In this case, ok GW2 is not "pay to win" but also there isn't a game out there "pay to win"
    Sure there are games that are pay to win, World of Tanks and it's gold ammo and gold consumables(make you more powerful and are only available in the cash shop) is a good example.
    Last edited by Nev12; 2012-09-09 at 12:03 PM.

  3. #43
    can this (ignorant) troll thread be locked already?
    dude barely got to read a list of what is on the gem store and thinks he can judge how much it's a P2Win system...

    get real already and just go back playing wow?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    some people have serious problems on reading. There is a fact in MMOs. people buy golds to do things faster. This is a fact or gold sellers would not exist! Now these people that buy golds, what can they do with golds in GW2?

    GW2: everything
    wow: little
    Highly debateable. In wow with gold you can pay for Endgame boss and Mount boosts. Some guilds even sold heroic weapons from madness for 25k gold + 250k for mount.

    Armor in guild wars doesn't give you a real advantage over your opponents. Even if you buy the best stuff with gold from gems this doesn't guarantee you will "win". The amount of real money you would have to spend for all the just not worth it. Arenanet sells gems to pay for servers and support so i don't have to pay for that.

    PS: I keep making real money on the Diablo 3 RMAH. I sold some really nice Legendary 180 dex, 80 to all ress and 1800 thorns, etc shoulders for 45 euro on top of my 130 euro from June... People will waste their money on pixels. If you don't like it quit the game.

  5. #45
    and the person who farms for days nodes and materials from mobs to skill up his crafting Discipline what is he after for? the person that will do the dungeon 40+ times instead of 1-2 to see it and experience it what is he after for?
    In GW2? He is after novelty. He is after different gear meshes.

    I have played a lot of F2P games and none of them ever sold something you couldn't also get in-game. And I can say that you could do less with your money in those F2P games than you can do in GW2. So I guess the term "pay to win" doesn't even exist because in every game you buy things you just do things faster. In this case, ok GW2 is not "pay to win" but also there isn't a game out there "pay to win"
    Then no, no you have not played a lot of F2P MMORPGs. Rappelz let you buy assured over-enchanting items (gain more power then normal items), Allods online required you to buy potions to compete in PvP and was almost destroyed when they made it so you couldnt respawn in end game unless you spent $, 9D let you straight up buy gear from cash shop that was better then anything in the game, etc. Then there are things like Diablo 3 that literally lets you spend $ for gear... in a gear-grinding game. Meanwhile in subs games like WoW or Rift you can buy gear that will let you compete with player that have a lot more experience and skill then you, simply because in those games gear is 75% of the equation.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    And what have you achieved? A level 80 character that you've never played. You don't know the nuances of the profession, you probably didn't have fun reaching level 80 and you're still not more powerful than anyone else, you just got there faster.
    He does have a point, he has achieved that he heas full geared max level char that he BOUGHT.

    Imagine the reaction if you could do that legally in WoW, Rift or any other MMO that is sub based.

    But, this game is not based in a sub and i think that makes a huge difference.

    OP I dont really care if you want to buy a mxa char with your money, because it doesnt influence me at all.

  7. #47
    you sir have some serious issues

  8. #48
    Funnily almost no one even answered the OP's question.

    I think its a little over the top being able to buy that much, but it seems way too expensive and boring a method to really be put to heavy use.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-09 at 12:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    He does have a point, he has achieved that he heas full geared max level char that he BOUGHT.

    Imagine the reaction if you could do that legally in WoW, Rift or any other MMO that is sub based.

    But, this game is not based in a sub and i think that makes a huge difference.

    OP I dont really care if you want to buy a mxa char with your money, because it doesnt influence me at all.
    Leveling cant be bought, but basically any gear, achievement or mount could be in WoW via the Blizzard pet store (Guardian cubs) or TCG and mounts. Its not really easy but most things eventually are sold fairly early in each tier for gold and via those methods all legit. Expensive but possible and not breaking the rules.

  9. #49
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashdummy View Post
    Imagine the reaction if you could do that legally in WoW, Rift or any other MMO that is sub based.
    You could do that legally in other games. I had already listed Star Wars: Galaxies as an example, and City of Heroes also allowed you to trade pretty much everything. "Bind on Pickup" was not universal before WoW became the dominant MMO.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by sacrypheyes View Post
    can this (ignorant) troll thread be locked already?
    dude barely got to read a list of what is on the gem store and thinks he can judge how much it's a P2Win system...

    get real already and just go back playing wow?
    troll is someone that speaks without clues and arguments. Also if there was 3 years ago you could tell me to go back in wow, although atm I can only go back in Aion, Lotro and Swtor because this is where I came from. I didn't even speak for gem shop, I speak for gems -> gold and what you can do with gold. Although I can understand how hard is reading for people jump in to put labels into others as they know them already


    Quote Originally Posted by Nikijih View Post
    Then no, no you have not played a lot of F2P MMORPGs. Rappelz let you buy assured over-enchanting items (gain more power then normal items), Allods online required you to buy potions to compete in PvP and was almost destroyed when they made it so you couldnt respawn in end game unless you spent $, 9D let you straight up buy gear from cash shop that was better then anything in the game, etc. Then there are things like Diablo 3 that literally lets you spend $ for gear... in a gear-grinding game. Meanwhile in subs games like WoW or Rift you can buy gear that will let you compete with player that have a lot more experience and skill then you, simply because in those games gear is 75% of the equation.
    I should say well known F2P RPG games that at least have 100k people to begin with then..
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2012-09-09 at 12:21 PM.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  11. #51
    Warchief Sylreick's Avatar
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    Pay to win (win being the key word) means to pay cash for an advantage over other players. There is no advantage to hit max level and getting the gear everyone else has. In fact it's more of a disadvantage because you have no experience with the character and skipped a lot of the fun aspects of the game (leaving you powerless against people that actually know what they're doing with their characters).

    If you think a shorter time is an advantage, then I'd suggest breaking out of WoW mode... the game is not about a race to max level for the true content. Sure, having a lot of gold would ease some of the obstacles... but people will do that without paying money, while enjoying all the content of the game.

  12. #52
    Ok, since i can't read and you refuse to acknowledge to point i made, let's try again.

    P2W stands for pay to win which means: You pay real money to get items/stats/gear whatever you want to call it to win the game. Now, seeing how you can only win against other people is PvP, there is nothing which you can buy with gems which will make you superior. Only way you can win, is by being more skilled then him. In PvE, that same exotic gear you crafter within hours, can easily be obtained by the next guy in two days. You don't win anything by having exotic gear and exotic weapons.

    Now im going to bring WoW into this because you say there is little in WoW and everything in GW2. Endgame in WoW is pretty much heroic dungeons for the first weeks of the tier and then raid. Complete the raid in both normal and heroic, move on to do the same raid several times to get the epic gear which makes you far more superior then the one who just dinged 85. After some months of raiding, there are people still struggling with the raid. This is where a goldbuyer comes in. He buys gold, let's say 500k, pays a guild 400k and bam, Heroic DS with some gear and maybe even a mount.

    In PvP, people get full cataclysmic gear and become way more superior then someone who just started PvP. Yes, they need skill to achieve some of that gear, but they can just do PvP until they get the gear, without being as skilled as others. Then a goldbuyer comes in and yea, buys his way up to 2,2k rating.

    Now in my book, you can do a lot in WoW by purchasing gold and yea you can do a lot of things in GW2 as well, but unlike purchasing gold in WoW, legal or not, you don't win anything.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylreick View Post
    If you think a shorter time is an advantage, then I'd suggest breaking out of WoW mode
    As I would suggest you break out from GW2 mode, or what they said about GW2 mode yet still need to be proven...the only difference which I said earlier lot of times is that I don't play wow the last years...although you guys you maybe make me defend wow for first time after so many years...


    Quote Originally Posted by Exroyal View Post
    Ok, since i can't read and you refuse to acknowledge to point i made, let's try again.

    P2W stands for pay to win which means: You pay real money to get items/stats/gear whatever you want to call it to win the game. Now, seeing how you can only win against other people is PvP, there is nothing which you can buy with gems which will make you superior. Only way you can win, is by being more skilled then him. In PvE, that same exotic gear you crafter within hours, can easily be obtained by the next guy in two days. You don't win anything by having exotic gear and exotic weapons.

    Now im going to bring WoW into this because you say there is little in WoW and everything in GW2. Endgame in WoW is pretty much heroic dungeons for the first weeks of the tier and then raid. Complete the raid in both normal and heroic, move on to do the same raid several times to get the epic gear which makes you far more superior then the one who just dinged 85. After some months of raiding, there are people still struggling with the raid. This is where a goldbuyer comes in. He buys gold, let's say 500k, pays a guild 400k and bam, Heroic DS with some gear and maybe even a mount.

    In PvP, people get full cataclysmic gear and become way more superior then someone who just started PvP. Yes, they need skill to achieve some of that gear, but they can just do PvP until they get the gear, without being as skilled as others. Then a goldbuyer comes in and yea, buys his way up to 2,2k rating.

    Now in my book, you can do a lot in WoW by purchasing gold and yea you can do a lot of things in GW2 as well, but unlike purchasing gold in WoW, legal or not, you don't win anything.
    I understand what you say..although the difference is not 2 days. And yes I understand the difference in gear between wow/swtor/rift and GW2. And yes I admit that "pay to win" end up to be wrong title. The true should be how much fair it is. I spend for example x time to get a discipline to 400 and craft that exotic armor. then I see someone next to me to have that exact piece of armor. Did he spent x time to get it?or he got it with his credit card? I don't like pvp and I am not interested in it, so I don't care if he has the same power as me. DE's are fun, dungeons are fun, gathering nodes and grind materials is not fun, so I can't say that I "enjoyed" the way I have obtained that armor while he didn't...
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2012-09-09 at 12:35 PM.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  14. #54
    Stood in the Fire Centerra's Avatar
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    Paying for less grind is pretty different from pay to win, like buying an XP boost in LoL as opposed to gold ammo or best weapons in the game a la FFXI. Only a problem if the stuff is unavailible to those who don't pay for it.

    Although that sounds like alot of MTs for a game you have to buy a copy of, granted I'm too poor to buy the game for the next 2 weeks so I'm talking out my arse here, but considering so much has been made of the fact you only need to buy the game (no sub etc) it sounds a bit like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Still it's pretty far away from how bvad MTs are in alot of games.

  15. #55
    Scarab Lord slime's Avatar
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    Every game eventually has gold farmers in it - gold sellers seem to be there from launch. A great example is D3 - I couldn't believe the gold selling spam the numbers of people that seemed to only farm gold and items. But I guess in D3 it sorta made sense because it very easily and quickly translated into RL currency. Strangely your post had an opposite effect on me, I disliked GW2 greatly as far as an mmo - caused me not to buy it. But, still, I wonder - I have definitly paid $60 for far worse games that I couldn't believe I bought - and if you are telling me I don't have to play this god awful game to actually level cap - you peaked my interest. Might have to go blow the $60 after all and give it another try.

  16. #56
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    I see what you're saying, I really do. Yes, you can buy a great majority of the things in this game because of the fact that you can sell your gems for gold. It would of course cost thousands of dollars for something that would take less than 100 hours in game, so I don't know as many people will, but yes, it's possible.

    However what I don't agree with is

    The point is anything I can achieve in the game with time and skill, someone can achieve it with gold.
    Anything you can achieve in game with time, you can make faster with gold. Skill has nothing to do with it though. Having the best decked out character is not going to help you win an sPvP tournament against a skilled team because they will be in exactly the same gear as you and have skills to help them. Even PvE wise if you have no skills at all and are just mucking around in the back with the wrong traits and no clue of mechanics or how to play your class, the group could easily wipe on explorable dungeon modes.

    You can cut time out of the equation if you are so inclined, you cannot replace skill with stuff you buy with gold though. In that respect it is not pay to win. You cannot pay to have more skills and beat other people.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by slime View Post
    Every game eventually has gold farmers in it - gold sellers seem to be there from launch. A great example is D3 - I couldn't believe the gold selling spam the numbers of people that seemed to only farm gold and items. But I guess in D3 it sorta made sense because it very easily and quickly translated into RL currency. Strangely your post had an opposite effect on me, I disliked GW2 greatly as far as an mmo - caused me not to buy it. But, still, I wonder - I have definitly paid $60 for far worse games that I couldn't believe I bought - and if you are telling me I don't have to play this god awful game to actually level cap - you peaked my interest. Might have to go blow the $60 after all and give it another try.
    You might be highly dissapointed if you lvl cap without lvling. Just saying.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    Funnily almost no one even answered the OP's question.
    It has been answered, and it has even been answered by ArenaNet before the OP asked it. You can trade RL money to save time, but you can't trade it for a competitive advantage.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazu View Post
    Funnily almost no one even answered the OP's question.
    Quote Originally Posted by mofo View Post
    I don't think you understand what Pay-to-Win means. You are not more powerful than other players because you spent real money. So what exactly did you achieve? You know, other than spending a whole bunch of real money to max out a character by not having played the game, and therefore not having enjoyed the game. You are on the same footing as every other player who didn't spend any amount of money. Bet you feel great, huh?
    What exactly is not answered?

  20. #60
    Warchief Sylreick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    As I would suggest you break out from GW2 mode, or what they said about GW2 mode yet still need to be proven...the only difference which I said earlier lot of times is that I don't play wow the last years...although you guys you maybe make me defend wow for first time after so many years...




    I understand what you say..although the difference is not 2 days. And yes I understand the difference in gear between wow/swtor/rift and GW2. And yes I admit that "pay to win" end up to be wrong title. The true should be how much fair it is. I spend for example x time to get a discipline to 400 and craft that exotic armor. then I see someone next to me to have that exact piece of armor. Did he spent x time to get it?or he got it with his credit card? I don't like pvp and I am not interested in it, so I don't care if he has the same power as me. DE's are fun, dungeons are fun, gathering nodes and grind materials is not fun, so I can't say that I "enjoyed" the way I have obtained that armor while he didn't...
    So what if that other person used his credit card? There's more satisfaction from doing things "the old fashioned" way. Sure you could go that route if you really dislike the way crafting works, it's an option though not a necessity.

    Also, what "still needs to be proven"? That you can get gold in game or reduce the amount of time spent gathering it with a credit card? I'm kind of confused as to what you're getting at.

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