GoSac: Special Ability

[Grubjuice]

they really ought to add a glyph that switches the special ability you gain from whichever demon you sacrifice to that demon's other special ability: make it a minor glyph and we could use it for niche encounters.

Voidwalker: Disarm instead of Shadow Bulwark
Felguard: Axe toss instead of Pursuit
Felhunter: Devour magic instead of Spell Lock
Imp: Cauterize instead of Singe magic
Succubus: Whiplash instead of Seduction

[wholol]

sounds like a good idea,but making a glyph based on a single talent is never going to happen imo, besides they would sooner add glyphs to fix other "problems" then adding one that does this.

[Deleted]

they really ought to add a glyph that switches the special ability you gain from whichever demon you sacrifice to that demon's other special ability: make it a minor glyph and we could use it for niche encounters.

Voidwalker: Disarm instead of Shadow Bulwark
Felguard: Axe toss instead of Pursuit
Felhunter: Devour magic instead of Spell Lock
Imp: Cauterize instead of Singe magic
Succubus: Whiplash instead of Seduction

Something like that would be a major glyph.

Other thn that, seems okay.

[silverhatred]

I feel like we got the inferior ability in every scenario except felhunter.

[Sakamae]

I feel like we got the inferior ability in every scenario except felhunter.

Singe magic is extremely useful now that healer dispels are on an 8 second CD. I'm really annoyed I lost self dispel on my spriest, let alone single target dispels. You already have a Cauterize ability in Dark Bargain if you want it.

[Sylar Hao]

There are no glyph related to talents...

[Deleted]

There are no glyph related to talents...

1. There used to be (Metamorphosis, Haunt, ChBolt, Conflag, etc) so why not?

2. The glyph would not change the talent itself, but our baseline ability command demon (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=119898), so it would also be useful for non-GoSac builds.

3. It could be a minor glyph since the command demon ability is just a tool to help control the demon better. Warlocks with pets out can still use all the pet abilities on an individual basis.

[pokeadott]

The only abilities that are pretty universally agreed on as crap are Felguard and Succubus. Just make the change to Whiplash and Axe Toss and it would be fine.

As above guy said, Imp dispel is awesome. And VW 2min last stand isn't the same as Disarm, but it fits with the pet and it's good to have one option that impacts the lock herself.

[MastaKwaa]

I'd really like to see the default Command Demon and default Command Demon-GoSac versions of Command Demon have CC from each pet. Then have a 2nd version of Command Demon that has the utility spells. One called "Command Demon: Control" and one called "Command Demon: Utility"...

Command Demon: Control (Non-GoSac)
Voidwalker: Disarm
Felguard: Axe Toss
Felhunter: Spell Lock
Imp: Singe magic
Succubus: Seduction (fits the rest of the abilities in their use of @focus, whereas Whiplash does not)

Command Demon: Control (GoSac)
Voidwalker: Disarm
Felguard: Axe Toss
Felhunter: Spell Lock
Imp: Singe magic
Succubus: Whiplash (Seduction doesn't make sense since we have to channel it)


Command Demon: Utility (Non-GoSac)
Voidwalker: Shadow Bulwark
Felguard: Pursuit
Felhunter: Devour Magic
Imp: Cauterize
Succubus: Lesser Invisibility

Command Demon: Utility (GoSac)
Voidwalker: Shadow Bulwark
Felguard: Pursuit
Felhunter: Devour Magic
Imp: Cauterize
Succubus: Lesser Invisibility (15 sec invisibility on a 2-3 min CD)

[Xelnath]

Spell Lock was the exception in Grimoire of Sacrifice. I was *this* close to giving it the Hostile Dispel instead of spell lock.

Sacrifice is giving up part of your pet's utility for personality utility. It's not about getting the best one.

Command Demon is only attached to the spells which can't be autocast by your pet. There's *some* argument for Axe Toss, instead of Felstorm, but I decided to err on the side of PvE players, not PvP players, since most PvPers are the 10% who can write macros.

[salpsan]

they really ought to add a glyph that switches the special ability you gain from whichever demon you sacrifice to that demon's other special ability: make it a minor glyph and we could use it for niche encounters.

Voidwalker: Disarm instead of Shadow Bulwark
Felguard: Axe toss instead of Pursuit
Felhunter: Devour magic instead of Spell Lock
Imp: Cauterize instead of Singe magic
Succubus: Whiplash instead of Seduction

i agree that the abilities we inherit from our minions are not the best, but imo they are the most practical.
for instance...... disarm, whiplash and axe toss are abilities that make sense for melee combat, and as warlocks we are not proficient in melee combat.

[pokeadott]

Spell Lock was the exception in Grimoire of Sacrifice. I was *this* close to giving it the Hostile Dispel instead of spell lock.

Sacrifice is giving up part of your pet's utility for personality utility. It's not about getting the best one.

Why isn't it about getting the best one? You're already giving up: the ability to keep healers in combat, all of Soul Link and most of the effectiveness of Sac Pac, the other utility spells your pet provides (blood pact/Felstorm - invis/taunt to a lesser extent),the ability to use utility while cc'ed, one of the good on-use abilities (dispel/disarm/axetoss/whiplash), and the improved utility of the other two tier talents.

That's a stupidly heavy price for what is supposed to be a convenience talent. The damage should net out between sac/serv/suprem, so why should the utility be SO gimped? Serv = double pet utility on a CD. Suprem = improved pet utility spells always. GoSac = less utility and in some cases useless utility (seduce/intervene)? Seriously, how is it not about giving the lock the best skill the pet has to offer (or even letting him choose)? We give up a ton to go petless, punishing us further by giving us laughable utility for some pets is overly punitive for no reason.

Really lose faith when I see statements like that.

[Jessicka]

Because at some point it ceases to be convenience and becomes mandatory.

Right now I'm flipping tables about how far the talent is ahead of using Sacrifice over a pet for Affliction in general, and in terms of convenience on so many DS encounters. It's too rapidly becoming the latter rather than being the former. Exactly what I feared most when I saw the talent unveiled at Blizzcon.

[Grizelda]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but using Enslave Demon doesn't remove the GoSac buff.

[Xelnath]

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but using Enslave Demon doesn't remove the GoSac buff.

Is that *really* a problem?

[Netherspark]

Is that *really* a problem?

Not a 'problem' persay, but it looks like a tricky situation.

Consider Death Knights: Using Control Undead is always going to be beneficial wherever it's possible to cast it, at least for Frost & Blood specs because they are gaining a pet with extra damage and loosing nothing in return. That's not necessarily a problem but it seems like a "free" boost to damage. For Warlocks on the other hand, Enslave Demon replaces your primary pet, making it almost always a detriment to use but with GoSac you can keep the buff AND get the extra damage from the enslaved demon.

Now personally I hope it stays this way but the actual "problem" it causes is that because Enslave Demon 'stacks' with GoSac it will always be a "free" substantial DPS increase wherever demons can be enslaved, making it more powerful than the other two Grimoires.

This seems like one of those things that you guys tend to prevent... or would the scarcity of enslavable demons & undeads in raids make this an acceptable situation?

I guess what I'm really asking is if the developers are ok with Enslave Demon/Control Undead amounting to a DPS increase?

[wholol]

since most PvPers are the 10% who can write macros.

so what you're saying basically is that, pve'ers are dumb, so that's why they need help with command demon

[Deleted]

Spell Lock was the exception in Grimoire of Sacrifice. I was *this* close to giving it the Hostile Dispel instead of spell lock.

Sacrifice is giving up part of your pet's utility for personality utility. It's not about getting the best one.

Command Demon is only attached to the spells which can't be autocast by your pet. There's *some* argument for Axe Toss, instead of Felstorm, but I decided to err on the side of PvE players, not PvP players, since most PvPers are the 10% who can write macros.

@wholol: His words may have not been the best, but I agree that in general PvPers (are *forced* to) learn and handle macros in order to stay competitive. I myself did not PvP since TBC, but still know quite a lot about macros.

@Xelnath: Another way to look at it is, we could choose the ability that we best think that fits us, still without having but one of our pet's abilities. As long as it's only one ability, it's still gonna be "part of your pet's utility", since pets have 2-4 abilities each. It's just that we could chose which one based on whatever we do (PvP with specific classes in team, PvE specific encounter so we are not forced to play with a pet if a specific utility is needed that GoSac does not provide).

Could be done with a glyph to at least ensure 2 choices. Minor or major, doesn't matter.

[darkminaz]

the problem is blizz probably will change it completly and not make a glpyhe change it
so .. meh

Voidwalker: Disarm instead of Shadow Bulwark - i like my bullwark! so f.u!
Felguard: Axe toss instead of Pursuit - deal!
Felhunter: Devour magic instead of Spell Lock - no no no ^^
Imp: Cauterize instead of Singe magic - meh
Succubus: Whiplash instead of Seduction - schould be basic! who in the right mind would use seduction .. same dr then fear, you can't cast while you do it, it breaks from dmg .. <-- worst cc spell EVERRR

sadly who would sac the pet as demo so axe toss sadly won't be a spell that i can use normaly . still would fix a lot problems in bg that 3sec extra stun

Command Demon is only attached to the spells which can't be autocast by your pet. There's *some* argument for Axe Toss, instead of Felstorm, but I decided to err on the side of PvE players, not PvP players, since most PvPers are the 10% who can write macros.

and sadly for pve this "new" spell sucks the big one, since it stops channelcasts etc so you still are better of with a makro. simply add 2 extra makro buttons for warlocks and hardcode those makros in :P

[PickleballAce]

Not an original thought, but if I had my choice:

Imp: Keep dispel
Felpup: Keep interrupt
Void: Keep Bulwark, though Disarm is a nice alternative

Succy: Whiplash instead (or even Invis, but that's not likely on the table)
Felguard: Axe Toss instead


I do like the idea of the glyph if it were possible, and Sacrifice still means that you'll always be giving up at least some pet utility.