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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    For the casual claim.. check the official forums regarding level cap raise. For the progress claim... I'm playing mmo's for over 10 years and whenever a new lvl cap hit any game where raiding was some kind of a factor, everyone wanted to just be done with to start the the actual content you subbed for. It wasn't enjoyable because your target is not to hit max cap, your target is to get ww1st kills.
    Because you read a forum and have been playing MMOs for 10 years doesn't mean you can claim that casuals don't enjoy leveling, it's enough with one casual player that enjoys leveling and your claim is invalid, same goes for your claim that not a single player wanted to level when the cap was increased, unless you knew all of them personally you can't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Also thanks to your "evidence"... which says exactly nothing. How did they pinpoint that people enjoy leveling? Because people are going to play MoP?...
    They didn't pinpoint that people enjoy leveling because people would play MoP, I didn't claim that either, they talked about the psychological effects of leveling and how people strive to do so in one way shape or form, games like WoW was one example of this behavior.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2012-09-26 at 06:59 AM.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
    Inactive D3: Armory Rift: Alyssaa @ Icewatch SWTOR: Redblade @ ToFN WoW: My graveyard of characters.
    People just do the strangest things when they believe they're entitled. But they do even stranger things when they just plain believe. - Kevin Smith

  2. #122
    I don't see how anyone cannot complete story mode as is or even hard mode EC for that matter. for the past few months now (after our main raid was fully geared) we sold HM runs each week. The hardest fight in HM EC is toth and zorn.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Whenever there was a new level cap in EQ2, not a single progress player wanted to level their chars, they had to to stay competitive. Casual player also don't enjoy leveling again becaust mostly they are too overwhelmed with the existing content and they prefer to have "some" time to stay at their level, experience everything and maybe after a few years, they really want to level up. They do however like to see new areas.

    Anyow this is entirely subjective and I'd like to see any work form your "behavioral experts".
    Given that millions of people purchased the older WoW-Addons on day one and the vast majority of customers did not participate in end-game at all, this is a minority opinion at best and more realistically a complete outlier.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Because you read a forum and have been playing MMOs for 10 years doesn't mean you can claim that casuals don't enjoy leveling, it's enough with one casual player that enjoys leveling and your claim is invalid, same goes for your claim that not a single player wanted to level when the cap was increased, unless you knew all of them personally you can't know.

    They didn't pinpoint that people enjoy leveling because people would play MoP, I didn't claim that either, they talked about the psychological effects of leveling and how people strive to do so in one way shape or form, games like WoW was one example of this behavior.
    And what is the psychological effect of leveling... really reducing "leveling" on getting a new level and not... progressing to another area of the map, seeing new content, being "with" the mass and all that.

    Quote Originally Posted by crawdaddy029 View Post
    I don't see how anyone cannot complete story mode as is or even hard mode EC for that matter. for the past few months now (after our main raid was fully geared) we sold HM runs each week. The hardest fight in HM EC is toth and zorn.
    it can be impossible even after you cleared some of the content in HM EC..

    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Given that millions of people purchased the older WoW-Addons on day one and the vast majority of customers did not participate in end-game at all, this is a minority opinion at best and more realistically a complete outlier.
    But you can determine how many player wanted to see the new content and how many player wanted to get higher levels?

    Raising lvl cap is a very simple process. They tell you that.. to get to content x you need to get lvl x, which means that you have to spend (if you want or not) time to get to lvl x to experience content x. All expansions are build that you have different areas with different levels and you process through them not because you want to progress like this but because this is the only way. Did you really hear ever from player folks.. damn we really really need a lvl raise because I enjoy leveling so much? hell no.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    And what is the psychological effect of leveling... really reducing "leveling" on getting a new level and not... progressing to another area of the map, seeing new content, being "with" the mass and all that.
    A quick google gives this and this, should give you some insight I suppose, if not there is tons of information regarding the subject if you want to find it.
    Last edited by Redblade; 2012-09-26 at 07:39 AM.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
    Inactive D3: Armory Rift: Alyssaa @ Icewatch SWTOR: Redblade @ ToFN WoW: My graveyard of characters.
    People just do the strangest things when they believe they're entitled. But they do even stranger things when they just plain believe. - Kevin Smith

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Raising lvl cap is a very simple process. They tell you that.. to get to content x you need to get lvl x, which means that you have to spend (if you want or not) time to get to lvl x to experience content x. All expansions are build that you have different areas with different levels and you process through them not because you want to progress like this but because this is the only way. Did you really hear ever from player folks.. damn we really really need a lvl raise because I enjoy leveling so much? hell no.
    Intriguingly there is a thread "Dear Blizzard: I don't care about your quests" on the WoW forums just today. The barely literate author writes "Nobody cares. Most people just want to hit level cap.". The thread is low rated. Incidentally this happens rarely enough that it is the only thread with a low rating on the first 10 pages of the general forum.

    And no, raising level cap is not a simple process. Filling 5 or 10 levels with content is magnitudes harder and more work than creating a new raid or battleground. If people didn't like it and were willing to spend money on it, the investment simply wouldn't be made by any developer.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Did you really hear ever from player folks.. damn we really really need a lvl raise because I enjoy leveling so much? hell no.
    I know people who only enjoy leveling in MMOs...
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
    Inactive D3: Armory Rift: Alyssaa @ Icewatch SWTOR: Redblade @ ToFN WoW: My graveyard of characters.
    People just do the strangest things when they believe they're entitled. But they do even stranger things when they just plain believe. - Kevin Smith

  8. #128
    yeahhh 1.4 today !! :P

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    A quick google gives this and this, should give you some insight I suppose, if not there is tons of information regarding the subject if you want to find it.
    Why are Video Games Addictive?
    probably we have different oppinions on "enjoying" and "having fun" and "wanting"

    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Intriguingly there is a thread "Dear Blizzard: I don't care about your quests" on the WoW forums just today. The barely literate author writes "Nobody cares. Most people just want to hit level cap.". The thread is low rated. Incidentally this happens rarely enough that it is the only thread with a low rating on the first 10 pages of the general forum.

    And no, raising level cap is not a simple process. Filling 5 or 10 levels with content is magnitudes harder and more work than creating a new raid or battleground. If people didn't like it and were willing to spend money on it, the investment simply wouldn't be made by any developer.
    To.. creating more levels is a simple process. You are talking about everything what comes with it which can be completely loosened from any kind of "leveling" up as we know it today and the same people you claim are "enjoying leveling up" would even more enjoy not to have to run after some levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    I know people who only enjoy leveling in MMOs...
    I know tons of people which like to progress their char, like myself, but I do not enjoy to look for my levels because the next planet/ area I wanted to go is much higher than I am now. So I have to grind just to get to a certain level and then... and only then... can I enjoy progressing again.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    I know tons of people which like to progress their char, like myself, but I do not enjoy to look for my levels because the next planet/ area I wanted to go is much higher than I am now. So I have to grind just to get to a certain level and then... and only then... can I enjoy progressing again.
    Conclusion, there are multiple types of players that enjoy different things about MMOs, I'm shocked...
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
    Inactive D3: Armory Rift: Alyssaa @ Icewatch SWTOR: Redblade @ ToFN WoW: My graveyard of characters.
    People just do the strangest things when they believe they're entitled. But they do even stranger things when they just plain believe. - Kevin Smith

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    I know people who only enjoy leveling in MMOs...
    please ask them what about leveling they liked most... I'm sure all of them will say.. well that my lvl went up, what else...

  12. #132
    First no it's not at all surprising that different games are adding new things around the same time frame. That is pretty normal, most recently was 5.0 in wow being released around GW2. It's common.

    Secondly this thread is about the 1.4 patch being released and things that pertain to that directly. Not about what any other game is doing. If anyone wants to have a thread discussing cases where game companies try to out do each other (there are tons of examples) you could ask one of the in the general video games forums about starting a thread like that in that section.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-26 at 10:59 AM ----------

    Well.. I just spent the last hour updating the patch notes to the final version... of course I was a noob and didn't save them, so when I got a web error I lost it all. I'll redo it all in a bit but I need to get some other things done at work Just so you know there were a few things added, and when I update everything those things will be shown in this color.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    F
    Well.. I just spent the last hour updating the patch notes to the final version... of course I was a noob and didn't save them, so when I got a web error I lost it all. I'll redo it all in a bit but I need to get some other things done at work Just so you know there were a few things added, and when I update everything those things will be shown in this color.
    Thanks Arlee. I'm not sure I can speak for everybody on this forum but I appreciate the work you do on these kinds of things. Helps keep the community informed.

    As for the notes itself, it's about time they optimized shadows in this game

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by TonyIommi View Post
    Thanks Arlee. I'm not sure I can speak for everybody on this forum but I appreciate the work you do on these kinds of things. Helps keep the community informed.
    I appreciate it as well, thanks.

  15. #135
    Thanks guys Just feeling like a noob for making such a silly mistake.

    Also servers are back up now, but there apparently was an issue with the GTN and that is still down.
    Originally Posted by SWTOR
    The Galactic Trade Network is currently unavailable and we do not have an ETA at this time for its restoration. Items currently listed on the GTN will have their auction timers expire as they normally would. We apologize for the inconvenience. This is a high priority issue that we are working to resolve.

    (Source)

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    And I know many with the opposite mentality, it's all anecdotal, there is however a reason why behavioral experts claims that leveling up is something we desire, if it's in the form of leveling characters in a MMO, collecting friends on FB, get high like count on your twitters and so on, it doesn't have to be something that we claim to like or strive for but enjoy and do subconsciously.
    I think you're confusing "enjoyment" with "reward". In fact, your first link about why video games are addictive says much. Most times, when dealing with addiction, you find more and more people lose the actual enjoyment out of the addiction, but continue to do it with the hopes that the enjoyment will be there. Addiction and enjoyment rarely go hand in hand. I think you should take the time to actually read the second article. In this case, what they mean by "leveling" is merely completely an easier task to progress to a harder task. That would be more along the lines of running a regular mode dungeon, followed by a hard mode dungeon, so on and so forth. Leveling from 1 to 2 doesn't bring a tougher task. They have more life, you do more damage, they do more damage, you have more life. The ratio is relatively the same.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    I think you're confusing "enjoyment" with "reward".
    We do it because it is rewarding and as such get a sense of enjoyment out of it, if it's done in a healthy manner or not is another question. This devolved in to very off topic territory fairly quick which wasn't my intention so I'll just leave it at that.
    Active PoE: @MajorAsshole EvE: Redblade (Reikoku)
    Inactive D3: Armory Rift: Alyssaa @ Icewatch SWTOR: Redblade @ ToFN WoW: My graveyard of characters.
    People just do the strangest things when they believe they're entitled. But they do even stranger things when they just plain believe. - Kevin Smith

  18. #138
    OP has been updated with the final patch notes, again things that changed between the last PTS notes and the final ones are in Green

  19. #139
    http://www.swtor.com/info/media/trai...-terror-beyond

    Man this OP looks so freaking amazing, its going to be tough getting through work thinking about getting home to play it.
    WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.

    Warcraft Lore has gone from one of the most vast and interesting stories in all of gaming to a bad Thrall Fanfic by Chris Metzen.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    We do it because it is rewarding and as such get a sense of enjoyment out of it, if it's done in a healthy manner or not is another question. This devolved in to very off topic territory fairly quick which wasn't my intention so I'll just leave it at that.
    We do it because there is no other way given how to do it. SWG had it prior to their changes where you wouldn't get a better level but more skills, nothing more. This progress was just as rewarding and had several benefits (as for example you could go with anyone somehwere and do stuff, no problem at all because mobs had more/ less hp, that was it.

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