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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    what happend to gul'dan at the tomb of sargeras?
    He got ripped apart by the guardians.
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  2. #102
    Here is why I am puzzled about the Sha thing. I'll try to list my arguments in a manner where response can be much more convenient. I may update this post depending on any new ideas or feedback.



    -Sha have Old God origins, however Twilight magic did as well.

    -Priest can have a Sha spawn skin for their shadowfiend with the Sha-touched weapon, but the Warlock has a Sha-Skin tier on its own.

    -In many instances, Sha whisper into your mind in Demonic in addition to having a couple of Sha classified as Demons.

    -Many Sha spells are black/white versions of warlock spells. (eg Sha-(dow)bolt)

    -Another interesting thing I have noticed is that despite their "emotional" origin, they tend to be a respected source of energy as well, given that the Sha energy ravaged the whole of Dread Wastes and Grand Magister Rommath siphoned that power and compared it to the FEL sensation and impact as an essence.

    -Implementation of new Sha spells or glyph re-skins can be applied to shadow spells, mostly affliction and some to demo. Is it me or Touch of Chaos has a Sha vibe on it?

    -I have noticed that the Sha have similar patterns to the Voidwalkers, in terms of spawning, reproducing and other spells they perform.

    -An interesting theory might be that Warlocks and the Council of the Black Harvest aim for the mastery of the Sha, as an ultimate challenge to master one's self or as being the only ones that can bear that "burden". That can be elaborated by checking the leaked warlock questline where someone mentions: "Perhaps you can accept the disorder of this universe" and the Black Harvest has proved that they aim for every interesting source of power that appears.

  3. #103
    The Patient
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    Are the dreadsteads a actual race of demons and who is the strongest amongst them??

  4. #104
    Stood in the Fire Queen Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post

    Sha power cannot be converted, bargained with or bribed. It is a kind of one-sided loathing that wholly devours those who lack the inner counterbalance to handle it. Warlocks cannot wield it, as there's no way for them to 'cheat' the price away.

    [FYI This statement may no longer be considered canon]

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Sha magic is similar to the rules of the Heartless "magic" in Kingdom Hearts (Sorry, been playing it all through the Holidays). Powerful abilities that are strengthened by the raw, "dark" emotions (rage, fear, anger, hate.... Joy) and can be used for a limited time, but is near guaranteed to corrupt and ensnare the user, turning them into that which they wanted to control... Reason I bring this up is that there is a potential work around. Warlocks can't use Sha magic without becoming a lesser Sha themselves, right? What if Warlocks forced the change upon others they could control, and then use them as a proxy for the magic? Or, if there was a way to reproduce the processes that lead to Sha creation, creating artifical, weaker but more easily controlled, Sha? Guessing there's a reason it wouldn't work, but hey, two cents and the like.


    Personally, I'd love to see if Warlocks are doing more harm than good in Pandaria. I mean, I know the general theme is that everyone is doing harm in some way, Paladins being overrighteous, Alliance and Horde fighting over the land, the Pandaren Shadopan being almost Happiness Patrol. But Warlocks are the ones that actively use negative emotions, Suffering, Anger and Chaos, as opposed to Mages "Lol, I know this, fireball" and Spriests "I r so great I make my own faith, lol I rhyme" (jesting). I'd be surprised if, in the end, we corrupt the Pandaren enough that Pandaren Warlocks become a choice.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-01 at 04:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by villie View Post
    Are the dreadsteads a actual race of demons and who is the strongest amongst them??
    They're a wild race from the planet Xoroth, I believe. Corrupted by fel, naturally, like the difference between pigs and Fel Boars. I don't think there's a known strongest, just like how there's no known strongest Horse in the world. (Not counting Shadowfax)
    Last edited by Queen Ultima; 2013-01-01 at 04:47 PM.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
    No. That was going to be part of the Warlock story arc in Pandaria. This part of the quest was not done and never will be, but one of the final Black Council trials was going to be to attempt to assimilate and master the Sha. It was going to fail horribly, with Zelfrax becoming even more twisted than he already was.

    The nature of Warlock power is that it comes from chaos and instability - Sha is dark, cold and reflective. Warlocks control their magical power by paying a price - either through their blood (life tap), the suffering of others (affliction), their own internal rage (demonology) or by absolutely obliterating everything their magic touches (destruction).

    Sha power cannot be converted, bargained with or bribed. It is a kind of one-sided loathing that wholly devours those who lack the inner counterbalance to handle it. Warlocks cannot wield it, as there's no way for them to 'cheat' the price away.

    [FYI This statement may no longer be considered canon]

    If this turns out to be canon, then would that mean that the whole Sha theme is entirely ruled out of the Warlock class? Or is there a possibility for it to appear in a minor expression through glyph alterations or a new spell?
    I am afraid that the "inner counterbalance" refers to the light side priests have, where priests mastering the Sha sounds sad to me. I play both a warlock and a priest in terms of Warlock using dark powers and priest using spiritual power. However, if Shadowpriest master the Sha, it would be as if the scales favour the priest, due to the class having the most awesome/unstable dark power in the game along with the poetry that goes along with it.
    In my opinion, priests may get sha influenced mind spells, while warlocks get to utilize even a bit of the essence.

  6. #106
    The Lightbringer Alceus's Avatar
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    they are possibly preparing warlocks for the next expansion. But will we play a big role or will a paladin go with the credits?
    And will they finally give purpose for the warlocks serving horde and alliance?
    (no lock can be trusted atm, maybe they will add a branch in their lore about warlocks solely using demonic magic to master it due to a prophecy they'll have to face strong legions of sargeras?)
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Alceus View Post
    they are possibly preparing warlocks for the next expansion. But will we play a big role or will a paladin go with the credits?
    And will they finally give purpose for the warlocks serving horde and alliance?
    (no lock can be trusted atm, maybe they will add a branch in their lore about warlocks solely using demonic magic to master it due to a prophecy they'll have to face strong legions of sargeras?)
    They're not preparing Warlocks for the next expansion, they're filling lore holes to explain the class changes we've experienced over the past couple of expansions; this one especially.

  8. #108
    The Lightbringer Alceus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    They're not preparing Warlocks for the next expansion, they're filling lore holes to explain the class changes we've experienced over the past couple of expansions; this one especially.
    so, redemption of the lock class?
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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    They're not preparing Warlocks for the next expansion, they're filling lore holes to explain the class changes we've experienced over the past couple of expansions; this one especially.
    I don't know. to me, it seems like warlocks will be heavily involved in the next expansion. the whole deal with wrathion's green meteors, now warlocks getting all sorts of candy. it feels like they are foreshadowing the expansion 5.

    remember: cata foreshadowing began at WotLK's launch with obsidian sanctum and the twilight drakes
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  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Alceus View Post
    so, redemption of the lock class?
    Given the text on most of the new quest, it is more like specification on the already existing Warlock lore. I'd say justification, not redemption, cause getting fel flames is not your typical "path to light".

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Alceus View Post
    so, redemption of the lock class?
    I think that's been going on since Wrath, with the acceptance of Warlocks at the Trial of the Crusade. Warlocks are also pretty prevalent in Tides of War at the defence of Theramore, and the 7th Fleet attack plans on Orgrimmar. So yeah, tying up those bits of loose ends, and explaining stuff like learning Meta from Illidan, the switch to Malefic Grasp learnt from the Twilight Cultists; and culminating in new knowledge to use Fel Fire.

  12. #112
    Sha should never be a warlock theme. They can try for it, but they should fail. Warlocks have been greedy thematically lately. They have twilight(affliciton), demons(demonology) and elemental fire(destruction). Let some other specs get something.

    The sha fit shadow priests the most in-game. It even mentions in Cdev answers #3
    The Light is often said to bring about feelings of positive emotion— hope, courage, comfort— and the like. Shadow abilities are just the opposite, able to impart feelings like despair, doubt, and panic.
    Shadow priests use negative emotions. Sha use negative emotions. They were made for each other. Shadow priests need the lore too, they haven't got any in-game lore, and the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow doesn't seem present in-game very much and it's only really mentioned in the WoW magazine.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    Sha should never be a warlock theme. They can try for it, but they should fail. Warlocks have been greedy thematically lately. They have twilight(affliciton), demons(demonology) and elemental fire(destruction). Let some other specs get something.

    The sha fit shadow priests the most in-game. It even mentions in Cdev answers #3
    Warlocks have been too greedy? It's as much flavor as most other classes have had with their 3 specs, fire/ice/arcane etc.

    That said, I agree sha shouldn't have ANYTHING to do with warlocks, it makes absolutely zero sense - all it is is dark and edgy people wanting a completely unrelated theme tied into their class "because it looks cool". If anyone gets it it should be spriests, since it fits them thematically, but even then - EVERY lore we have seen so far indicates that sha can not be controlled, all of it.

    There is zero lore reason to back up sha being tied to a class, especially warlocks. Makes about as much sense as making warlocks necromancers, it's not what the class is about. If you want to play something else, go play something else, don't go twisting a fanfic-ing a well established archetype into something it's not.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Warlocks have been too greedy? It's as much flavor as most other classes have had with their 3 specs, fire/ice/arcane etc.

    That said, I agree sha shouldn't have ANYTHING to do with warlocks, it makes absolutely zero sense - all it is is dark and edgy people wanting a completely unrelated theme tied into their class "because it looks cool". If anyone gets it it should be spriests, since it fits them thematically, but even then - EVERY lore we have seen so far indicates that sha can not be controlled, all of it.

    There is zero lore reason to back up sha being tied to a class, especially warlocks. Makes about as much sense as making warlocks necromancers, it's not what the class is about. If you want to play something else, go play something else, don't go twisting a fanfic-ing a well established archetype into something it's not.
    Warlocks & Necromancers, what's so different? Gul'dan created the Death Knights, the Nazrethim have Necromatic powers and they're demons.

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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    Shadow priests need the lore too, they haven't got any in-game lore, and the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow doesn't seem present in-game very much and it's only really mentioned in the WoW magazine.
    This is like saying having a homeless guy borrow a room in your house and say that "this guy needs a home too". I can understand why Priests involve the mind in their skills but sha have been presented as an all too powerful force, one that can even distort an area, see Dread Wastes or the Sha of Anger.

    I am personally afraid that the way this is going to be presented will be harmful to other casters, like how you always thought priests are more subtle and more...priestly. Now look at them, they can unleash a torrent of internal struggle that can devastate anything it can touch. It sounds to me like a more modern and well written idea of a dark theme that happened to get to a class that lacked lore but will make other classes like locks look worse at what they are good for.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by qu1rex View Post
    Warlocks & Necromancers, what's so different?
    Everything?

    You don't roll a warlock because you want to play an undead-summoner, nor a sha-controller. If you clicked it expecting either of those, you clicked the wrong button. There's no room in the class for for ramming necromancer or sha thematics without diluting the very soul of what the class is, regardless of how many people see flashy now things and think it would be great to ram them into an existing class "because it looks cool".

    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    I am personally afraid that the way this is going to be presented will be harmful to other casters, like how you always thought priests are more subtle and more...priestly. Now look at them, they can unleash a torrent of internal struggle that can devastate anything it can touch. It sounds to me like a more modern and well written idea of a dark theme that happened to get to a class that lacked lore but will make other classes like locks look worse at what they are good for.
    But your requests to give warlocks completely out of place sha thematics wouldn't?

    Besides, Warlocks are still throwing around the tools of the Legion, which have ended worlds and corrupted a bloody Titan - creating what is arguably WoW's endgame. I have zero reason to feel inadequate because a priest is dabbling in things that can corrupt a mere region of an island.

    That said - I still don't see the point in "giving" sha to anybody, nor do I think priests getting a cosmetic effect this tier is any more of an indication that they'll be getting sha thematics than the Firelands staff was that druids would be getting fire ones. It's something fun, fancy and fitting for the tier, I'd be surprised if it was some overarching class development (though I could be wrong). Everything shown ingame so far and things Xelnath have said all point to sha being completely unusable and uncontrollable, from the questing to the raid bosses in 5.0, the 5.1 quest line to the part of the green fire quest Xelnath mentioned - everything has indicated that they're absolutely impossible to control and just corrode and corrupt anyone who tries.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    I am afraid that the "inner counterbalance" refers to the light side priests have, where priests mastering the Sha sounds sad to me. I play both a warlock and a priest in terms of Warlock using dark powers and priest using spiritual power. However, if Shadowpriest master the Sha, it would be as if the scales favour the priest, due to the class having the most awesome/unstable dark power in the game along with the poetry that goes along with it.
    In my opinion, priests may get sha influenced mind spells, while warlocks get to utilize even a bit of the essence.
    If you play a priest, you may already have noticed they already have the sha spells. Right now. On live.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    If you play a priest, you may already have noticed they already have the sha spells. Right now. On live.
    What exactly are those spells? I am not talking about spells that could be used by a Sha. Sha spells are about emotions and have black/white aura and apart from the sha skinned shadowfiend from the weapon effect, what else is there?

  19. #119
    the sha matches priests better than warlocks, because they are masters of manipulating the mind and the hearts of people, which is where sha comes from.

    but it does match warlocks well too. warlocks get power from wherever they can take it, and they do have the strength of will to master any type of dark power, rather than be consumed by it. spells like Unending Resolve and Unbound Will add to that.

    just like shadow priests and warlocks shared the twilight motif (with shadow priests taking most of it), they could also share the sha. anyone can summon the sha, after all (even warriors, as long as they are in pandaria). warlocks got the sha set, priests got the sha minion. seems fair to me
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    but it does match warlocks well too. warlocks get power from wherever they can take it, and they do have the strength of will to master any type of dark power, rather than be consumed by it. spells like Unending Resolve and Unbound Will add to that.
    But it doesn't.

    a) Everything in lore has depicted sha as being completely uncontrollable
    b) Warlocks deal with demons, it's what the class is. They don't get power "wherever they can take it" in that sense, otherwise they'd have absolutely no character, they'd just be an amalgamation of various bits 'n bobs gathered each expansion - we didn't go picking up undead thematics, despite necromancy being a perfectly attainable skill. We shouldn't be picking up sha thematics, especially since all lore has shown that it isn't a skill that can be attained. Mantid, Pandaren, the best in the horde - all failed to control the sha and ended up coming out of the other end worse off for it.

    Classes need character, you can't just go diluting it by shoehorning every flashy thing an expansion churns up into it, especially when it directly counters the very essence of said enemy and has no correlation to the class you're trying to ram it in to.

    I can kinda get the priest thing - shadow has lots of emotion thematics, but even then it's a stretch to imagine they can tame something that has been depicted in every depiction as being uncontrollable. People wanting sha-themed warlocks are making ridiculously asinine arguments though. I get it - you like how sha look, the infinite dragonflight looked cool too, doesn't mean we should become infinite dragonflight handlers.

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