California Prop 30 — A must-read for Californians

[Dacien]

In the aftermath of one of the worst recessions in modern history, with some of the highest taxes in the nation (#1 in state sales tax, #2 in income tax, #2 in gas tax), they want to raise our taxes again.

Pitching it as a "millionaires tax" (because internal polling certainly showed them that people want to tax the rich), it would raise sales tax by .25%, or roughly a 3.5% increase, and imposes additional taxes on those making over $250,000. So while your state government is asking you for more, they just handed out hundreds of pay raises for various government staff. And we recently discovered that the Parks department has hidden $50 million while threatening to close parks due to budget shortages.

With ground zero of the subprime mortgage implosion being here in Southern California, where people can still speak to the desolation in some parts of Riverside and San Bernadino, it's an absolutely terrible idea to raise taxes on the poor and middle class right now. And after learning that none of this money will go to education as promised, but instead will be funneled into the general fund (In case you aren't aware of the trick, once the money is in the general fund, it has a very bad habit of being re-allocated), if it wasn't already crystal clear, it comes into sharp focus that this Proposition is something we need to oppose.


Please listen to this short radio advertisement by a man I greatly respect, Jon Coupal of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayer's Association, here. It's a little kitschy at the start, but he quickly gets down to business.


Please encourage everyone you know to take a stand against Prop 30. Enabling out of control spending by allowing our hurting wallets to give even more to the Sacramento spending beast is absolutely unconscionable.

Thank you for reading.

[Kasierith]

Isn't one of the primary ways to get out of a deficit to raise taxes to recover funds, especially in an area like California where there are massive amounts of public services provided? While rising taxes are, of course, hardly a good thing, overall it would be far better than doing the other route and cutting services in an area where so many people require it.

[Daelak]

In the aftermath of one of the worst recessions in modern history, with some of the highest taxes in the nation (#1 in state sales tax, #2 in income tax, #2 in gas tax), they want to raise our taxes again.

Pitching it as a "millionaires tax" (because internal polling certainly showed them that people want to tax the rich), it would raise sales tax by .25%, or roughly a 3.5% increase, and imposes additional taxes on those making over $250,000. So while your state government is asking you for more, they just handed out hundreds of pay raises for various government staff. And we recently discovered that the Parks department has hidden $50 million while threatening to close parks due to budget shortages.

With ground zero of the subprime mortgage implosion being here in Southern California, where people can still speak to the desolation in some parts of Riverside and San Bernadino, it's an absolutely terrible idea to raise taxes on the poor and middle class right now. And after learning that none of this money will go to education as promised, but instead will be funneled into the general fund (In case you aren't aware of the trick, once the money is in the general fund, it has a very bad habit of being re-allocated), if it wasn't already crystal clear, it comes into sharp focus that this Proposition is something we need to oppose.


Please listen to this short radio advertisement by a man I greatly respect, Jon Coupal of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayer's Association, here. It's a little kitschy at the start, but he quickly gets down to business.


Please encourage everyone you know to take a stand against Prop 30. Enabling out of control spending by allowing our hurting wallets to give even more to the Sacramento spending beast is absolutely unconscionable.

Thank you for reading.

Heh, responsible governance will raise the tax. The wealthy won't go anywhere. Highest living standards and one of the largest economies in the world. Get out of here with your fear-mongering.

[Dacien]

Isn't one of the primary ways to get out of a deficit to raise taxes to recover funds, especially in an area like California where there are massive amounts of public services provided? While rising taxes are, of course, hardly a good thing, overall it would be far better than doing the other route and cutting services in an area where so many people require it.

The problem is spending. Most Californians are probably aware of the crippling government compensation costs, but not as many are aware of just how badly they're handling the high-speed rail initiative, to the tune of tens of billions of dollars over budget. And if funding is so important, are pay raises in order for government workers? And what about the Parks department hiding $50 million? No, Californians need to take a stand against out of control spending.

The problem clearly isn't that we aren't taxed high enough.

---------- Post added 2012-09-10 at 10:04 PM ----------

Heh, responsible governance will raise the tax. The wealthy won't go anywhere. Highest living standards and one of the largest economies in the world. Get out of here with your fear-mongering.

I make 33k a year dude. I'm just trying to keep my money, okay? Especially when my taxes are higher than almost anybody else in any other state.

[Luuth]

I'll pay the extra sales tax if it means that people making over 250,000 pay more income tax. Sounds like everyone doing their part. I'm sure the alternative to this plan is much worse. It's not like we either do this or nothing happens, and we go on as usual. Something has to happen to generate revenue. I don't think cuts are the answer either. We can't always cut, sometimes we have spend. They keep cutting important stuff here like education. I do agree that there shouldn't be any raises being handed out to government workers in this time because that's the same type of crap the banks pulled when everything went to crap. I'm for cutting pay for the politicians, but not fire, cops or teachers. No reason to cut the pay of the government workers we actually need.

[Dirtybird42o]

Man...so glad I live in Oregon after reading that

[Dacien]

I'll pay the extra sales tax if it means that people making over 250,000 pay more income tax. Sounds like everyone doing their part. I'm sure the alternative to this plan is much worse. It's not like we either do this or nothing happens, and we go on as usual. Something has to happen to generate revenue.

Does it not bother you that the only reason they're asking you for more money is because they badly spent the money you already gave them? What does that say about this tax increase?

[Deleted]

Does it not bother you that the only reason they're asking you for more money is because they badly spent the money you already gave them? What does that say about this tax increase?

It says they realize they're out of money and need more of it to fix things.

Whether the plans for how the money will be used are good is another question.

[Daelak]

The problem is spending. Most Californians are probably aware of the crippling government compensation costs, but not many are aware of how badly they're handling the high-speed rail initiative, to the tune of tens of billions of dollars over budget. And if funding is so important, are pay raises in order for government workers? Considering we pay some of the highest taxes in the entire nation? And what about the Parks department hiding $50 million? No, Californians need to take a stand against out of control spending.

The problem clearly isn't that we aren't taxed high enough.

---------- Post added 2012-09-10 at 10:04 PM ----------



I make 33k a year dude. I'm just trying to keep my money, okay? Especially when my taxes are higher than almost anybody else in any other state.

And you will. To ask people that make over 8 times the amount you make to pay 3.5% more is the least you can back. You are in one of the most prosperous states in the world. The republic wasn't founded on libertarian ideology, nor low-tax small government investment.

[Dacien]

It says they realize they're out of money and need more of it to fix things.

Whether the plans for how the money will be used are good is another question.

Are you not concerned why they ran out of money?

[obdigore]

Are you not concerned why they ran out of money?

Let me guess... you are going to go with Unions?

[Dacien]

And you will. To ask people that make over 8 times the amount you make to pay 3.5% more is the least you can back. You are in one of the most prosperous states in the world. The republic wasn't founded on libertarian ideology, nor low-tax small government investment.

A sales tax increase on everyone in the state is a terrible idea, and the spending climate in Sacramento should scare everyone away. Unfortunately, most people aren't aware, don't care, or the issue is too confusing.

And it's too bad, because people will walk into the booth thinking the way you and others do, but you're getting suckered. And so am I if you vote that way.

---------- Post added 2012-09-10 at 10:12 PM ----------

Let me guess... you are going to go with Unions?

I'm going with what I already elaborated on in my OP.

[Luuth]

Are you not concerned why they ran out of money?

I am, but the fact is that is already water under the bridge. We need to fix things and that generally takes more money. The real problem in CA seems to be that no matter what party our governor comes from he is always an idiot.

[obdigore]

I'm going with what I already elaborated on in my OP.

Except nowhere in your OP did you say why CA ran out of money.

[Dacien]

Except nowhere in your OP did you say why CA ran out of money.

I'll let you do the research if you're really interested.

But I can save you some time: Yes, it is government employee compensation costs that are driving cities into bankruptcy across our state, and part of the reason why Los Angeles is $250 million in the hole, and why California's budget shortfall estimate for next year is $28 billion.

[shadowboxer123]

I'll pay the extra sales tax if it means that people making over 250,000 pay more income tax. Sounds like everyone doing their part.

You do realize that we have a progressive tax system? That means individuals who make $35,000 are taxed at a marginal rate of 15%, and that people who make over $250,000 are taxed at a marginal rate of 33%. The more you make, the more you pay in taxes. (and that's only at the federal level, it's not including state or local taxes)

To better illustrate: A person who makes $35,000 a year will pay about $4868 income taxes at the federal level. A person who makes $250,000 will pay about $67,028. A person with an income of $250,000 is making about 7.14 times the amount of $35,000, but they are paying about 13.77 times the amount of taxes that a person who makes $35,000 pays in taxes.

Forget marginal tax rates and look at average tax rates. A person who makes $35,000 is paying about 13.9% of their income to the federal government. ($4868 in taxes/$35,000 income) A person who makes $250,000 is paying about 26.8% of their income to the federal government. ($67,028 in taxes/ $250,000 income)

13.9% vs 26.8%.

So how much more should people pay on their income tax?

No need to increase taxes if spending is out of control.

[Eggowaffles]

Heh, responsible governance will raise the tax. The wealthy won't go anywhere. Highest living standards and one of the largest economies in the world. Get out of here with your fear-mongering.

Spoken truly by some one who does not live in CA.

Except nowhere in your OP did you say why CA ran out of money.

CA is out of money beacuse of retarded spending, ever since Brown took officer his first time around, all he's done is build and build the absolute worst projects for CA, and he is doing it again, spending several BILLION dollars on a rail system that no one will use, and is raising the taxes just to pay the INTEREST on the loans they are taking to fund it.

Second coming is the pension plans for government employees, CA loves to hire employees to work for the state and do absolutely nothing but build up a nice little retirement pool, it's been exploited and it has drained the state of all of it's tax money, so what do they do? Raise the taxes then raise the amount they get for retirement, and run dry again, then repeat over and over and over.

CA is by far one of the absolute worst states to live in, any production company with half a brain is leaving the state for greener pastures such as Austin, TX. It's horrible to live here, it's horrible to work here, CA is a garbage state that some how gets this rumor going about it that it is such a lovely state where everyone is happy, when in fact very little are.

Jerry Brown fucked this state in the ass the first time, and they invited him back for another un-lubed ass pounding.

So unless you actually live in this state, and have to deal with this bullshit on a daily basis, please don't talk about what the media presents to you as the golden state, it's far from it.

[Ssith]

you do realize that some of the biggest economic booms in history have occurred during the periods of highest taxation, right?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...Z1oH_blog.html

[Dacien]

I'll never understand people who love being taxed, or are ambivalent about it. I think it must be that there is a faith in government which I have learned to discard. Or they have plenty of money.

And by the way, if that money were to go to education, it would go 100% towards replenishing the CTA's massive unfunded pension liabilities. Your kid isn't getting a new music class, his teacher needs his pension funded.

According to Stanford University's public policy program, two years ago the entire state of California's unfunded pension liabilities were $500 billion. Billion with a B.

I'll say goodnight with this excerpt from the National Review, quoting the Sacramento Bee:

According to the venerable Sacramento Bee writer Dan Walters, “the Legislature’s Democratic majority [is] utterly beholden to unions for political sustenance and with a governor, Jerry Brown, whose 2010 campaign relied on union financing, unions and their 2.4 million members are at the apogee of political influence.”

[Sunseeker]

The alternative is fire everyone, cut services, and hike up poverty, unemployment and destitution in the hope that private enterprise will fill the void eventually.

Personally, when there's a massive debt and a lack of income, I'm not going to bet on hope and eventualities.