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  1. #1

    Melee and Ranged Imbalance In Guild Wars 2

    I have a level 80 (max level) Warrior, myself, and I find the Rifle to be adequate single target DPS, with the longbow being below average AoE DPS. While the Rifle can kill stuff reasonably, it just feels incorrect to take a "Warrior" Class, and sit back with ranged spells, hoping for the best. This seems to be the Warrior's main role in many situations, though, as Melee in Guild Wars 2 is often... questionable. As far as PvP goes, there are fundamental flaws in rushing into 30 people, just to die instantly, while almost everyone else shoots stuff everywhere, except for the few other melee Classes that ran in and also died. I would say that PvE is markedly Ranged favored as well since Melee loses so much uptime just dodging everything, and is far more punishing on many encounters, so again the Warrior's role seems to be running around with a Rifle

    Necromancers, Engineers, and Mesmers seem to be more DoT/Utility based Support Classes, or at least more of a Support Class than others, in the same sense that a Guardian may do less damage, with the added benefit of providing utility and buffs (and being able to withstand a lot of damage). Warriors and Thieves have ranged DPS to an extent, but I would doubt them being capable of the same output as a Ranger, or Elementalist. So it would seem that Rangers and Elementalists are the best ranged Classes, with the Ranger being less squishy, and having a pet, while the Elementalist can change stances (fire/water/air/earth) on the fly, to fill needs on a more situational basis. Overall these Classes appear to just bring more functionality, as well as more DPS, making them favorable

    There are other things which are unusual for an MMO, that seem to favor ranged as well; such as: almost everything can be cast while moving, there isn't a normal mana type resource for spells, to limit output, the lack of dedicated Healers leaves melee to die much easier in a variety of situations where they could be kept alive in other games, kiting seems to be the primary course of action in a lot of GW2's PvE, and dodging can both take one out of melee range, preventing their own DPS output, for the sake of staying alive, as well as be used to defensively take one out of melee range, which does mean less damage for the brief duration of the dodge, but is ultimately more punishing to the melee Class getting kited. The focus on this World vs World vs World (WvWvW or whatever) stuff also makes Guild Wars 2 feel Ranged favored, as there's a lot of shooting at people from the top of a building, and with the harsh distance from the Waypoint to any relevant spot on the map, the ability for a Ranged Class to effectively pull out of a losing engagement is highly beneficial

    What do you guys think? Does Guild Wars 2 favor Ranged over Melee?
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    I have a level 80 (max level) Warrior, myself, and I find the Rifle to be adequate single target DPS, with the longbow being below average AoE DPS. While the Rifle can kill stuff reasonably, it just feels incorrect to take a "Warrior" Class, and sit back with ranged spells, hoping for the best. This seems to be the Warrior's main role in many situations, though, as Melee in Guild Wars 2 is often... questionable. As far as PvP goes, there are fundamental flaws in rushing into 30 people, just to die instantly, while almost everyone else shoots stuff everywhere, except for the few other melee Classes that ran in and also died. I would say that PvE is markedly Ranged favored as well since Melee loses so much uptime just dodging everything, and is far more punishing on many encounters, so again the Warrior's role seems to be running around with a Rifle

    Necromancers, Engineers, and Mesmers seem to be more DoT/Utility based Support Classes, or at least more of a Support Class than others, in the same sense that a Guardian may do less damage, with the added benefit of providing utility and buffs (and being able to withstand a lot of damage). Warriors and Thieves have ranged DPS to an extent, but I would doubt them being capable of the same output as a Ranger, or Elementalist. So it would seem that Rangers and Elementalists are the best ranged Classes, with the Ranger being less squishy, and having a pet, while the Elementalist can change stances (fire/water/air/earth) on the fly, to fill needs on a more situational basis. Overall these Classes appear to just bring more functionality, as well as more DPS, making them favorable

    There are other things which are unusual for an MMO, that seem to favor ranged as well; such as: almost everything can be cast while moving, there isn't a normal mana type resource for spells, to limit output, the lack of dedicated Healers leaves melee to die much easier in a variety of situations where they could be kept alive in other games, kiting seems to be the primary course of action in a lot of GW2's PvE, and dodging can both take one out of melee range, preventing their own DPS output, for the sake of staying alive, as well as be used to defensively take one out of melee range, which does mean less damage for the brief duration of the dodge, but is ultimately more punishing to the melee Class getting kited. The focus on this World vs World vs World (WvWvW or whatever) stuff also makes Guild Wars 2 feel Ranged favored, as there's a lot of shooting at people from the top of a building, and with the harsh distance from the Waypoint to any relevant spot on the map, the ability for a Ranged Class to effectively pull out of a losing engagement is highly beneficial

    What do you guys think? Does Guild Wars 2 favor Ranged over Melee?
    Who the fuck cares? I play a guardian and a thief and love it.. Deal with it or reroll

    These kinds of posts add nothing to the conversation. Please post productively. -Edge
    Last edited by Edge-; 2012-09-11 at 10:07 PM.

  3. #3
    didnt read all, but im a warrior myself and i find myself using my longbow in wvw 80% of the time. the other 20% is when there is only 3v3 or something, but in large groups, no way im rushing in and waste my life. though i dont complain about it really. i love the bow. there are prons and cons with all. gw2 has a system which is supposed to make you change between weapons in combat and adapt to the situation
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  4. #4
    Well, the melee damage far outclasses the ranged damage. I had not much problems with melee thief or guardian in both PvP and PvE - you just have to play smart and pick your targets. It does make sense to have a ranged weapon equipped and then switch to melee to burst the enemy down. Overall, the melee weapons are often AOEs (one notable exception being the thief) while ranged is usually often single-target.

    In WvW, ranged do have an advantage. In sPvP, probably less (Rifle Warriors are a bit too strong, I feel). In PVE, playing melee can be tricky because you really have to dodge well, but it is also more fun. Overall, I do think that some more balancing should be done, but it has clearly improved from what we had in BWE1

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Who the fuck cares? I play a guardian and a thief and love it.. Deal with it or reroll
    Well that's not really the question. I have all the free time in the world, so I can level every Class and just play whatever happens to be overpowered, but I'd like to know if others feel that there's actually fundamental issues with Melee in Guild Wars 2. GW2 is somewhat different than what I'm used to, so I'm open to the idea that I'm just doing stuff wrong, but at the same time, I think the game needs to be balanced properly

    One man is not fit to say weather or not it's balanced, so I asked what other people thought (there's not many 80s in game right now on my server, and in game discussion is often... unproductive, so this seemed like a logical course of action)
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    What do you guys think? Does Guild Wars 2 favor Ranged over Melee?
    They attempt to balance this by offering melee higher base damage. For the most part one can melee in PVE just fine but there is a higher cap on player skill in doing so. Without question ranged play is "safer". I personally do not see how or why a "warrior" should be strictly melee- I understand that is a common stereotype though.

    I would say GW2 favors versatile weapon sets. Not too dissimilar from GW1 actually where players had 4 swappable weapons at a time. There are times when melee is better and times when ranged is best.

    Speaking in a more granular sense here: there are times when a rifle is better than a bow, axe better than a sword, warhorn better than a shield, etc.

    However. I do think a problem with the "soldier" classes of GW2 is that they are not very heavy. Like it hardly seems to matter you are wearing heavy armor as a Warrior or Guardian. I would even go so far as to say the Mesmer and Necro are the heaviest classes of all with trivial penalty for building so. Heavy armor may as well be an aesthetic choice as a neither Wars or Guards can even soak secondary fire to a greater degree over other classes.

    This is a byproduct of the heavy PVP focus of the game. So get what you pay for and all that. I personally do not PVP.

  7. #7
    when you say Balance what exactly do you mean?

    I feel that there are plenty of professions to chose from in order to find the toon you enjoy. Be it a rifle warr, a bow warr, a dagger necro, a pistol-shield eng, etc.

    the professions are not equal in dps output, in maneuverability or survivability but I`m sure that that`s the way they wanted them.

    For now I think that warrs and thiefs are a bit overpowered in pve and pvp (mostly noticeable in pvp) but I`m sure they will address that sooner or later if it`s considered to be wrong.

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Who the fuck cares? I play a guardian and a thief and love it.. Deal with it or reroll
    To be fair, the Thief has a lot of mobility.

    I hardly die, I like to shadowstep in, spend all my initiative quickly with daggers, steal, spend some more initiative then shadowstep to my original location. Works wonders. For any oh shit moments, you can vanish and run. The way I have found melee in WvW is basically, jump in, apply your bleeds and poison and get the fuck out or die.

  9. #9
    Sounds like you carried over your idea for how a Warrior should play from other games. Be open to other ideas and think outside the box. Depending on who else is around me I either stay in Melee or shift back and forth between Rifle and Sword and Board. You don't have to be locked into one mindset of how a Warrior "should" play.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MrBill View Post
    Sounds like you carried over your idea for how a Warrior should play from other games. Be open to other ideas and think outside the box. Depending on who else is around me I either stay in Melee or shift back and forth between Rifle and Sword and Board. You don't have to be locked into one mindset of how a Warrior "should" play.
    It doesn't make any sense to me to spend most of my time with a Rifle out, as a Warrior, when I could do more damage at range with a Ranger or Elementalist, though
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    It doesn't make any sense to me to spend most of my time with a Rifle out, as a Warrior, when I could do more damage at range with a Ranger or Elementalist, though
    Playing range as a warrior you definitely give up some DPS but you gain some defense and extra DPS for when those mobs get you surrounded. Its a trade off that some people don't care for. Those people usually play a different class.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    It doesn't make any sense to me to spend most of my time with a Rifle out, as a Warrior, when I could do more damage at range with a Ranger or Elementalist, though
    I have a strong suspicion that a ranged Warrior does more damage than a Ranger

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    To be fair, the Thief has a lot of mobility.

    I hardly die, I like to shadowstep in, spend all my initiative quickly with daggers, steal, spend some more initiative then shadowstep to my original location. Works wonders. For any oh shit moments, you can vanish and run. The way I have found melee in WvW is basically, jump in, apply your bleeds and poison and get the fuck out or die.
    Scorpion Wire. All the advantages of melee, without the near-insta-gib of being in the scrum.

    Of course, you could also use it to pull people into the scrum.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Riavan's Avatar
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    I actually think warrior is guild wars easy mode, unless it's a boss or a wvwvw zerg you survive easily standing in one place without having to bounce around constantly like most other classes. Also warrior has great single target ranged with that gun.

  15. #15
    Herald of the Titans Jigain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krsqk View Post
    Scorpion Wire. All the advantages of melee, without the near-insta-gib of being in the scrum.

    Of course, you could also use it to pull people into the scrum.
    In my experience, Scorpion Wire is best used when you've got the enemy on the run. Pick out the weakest link, drag him back, and finish him while he's still disoriented. :P

  16. #16
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Of course range usually has the advantage. I'm just glad that its not worse than it is. If you have dozens on each side, of course they'll normally focus fire on the closest target. So, don't be the closest target. I do find myself wishing that heavy armor would actually offer more protection than it seems too.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Who the fuck cares? I play a guardian and a thief and love it.. Deal with it or reroll
    Thank you for adding so much to this discussion. Your input has been highly beneficial and quoting his post again in the first reply was absolutely genius. You really should apply for admission to Yale or Harvard. Thank you so much again for your extremely intelligent input. You have brought so much to the conversation. /sarcasm

  18. #18
    I think most encounters in most mmo's actually favor ranged, just because of the physics of combat itself. This is magnified greatly in tab-target games such as this (though there is limited ability to dodge shots). If you actually had to aim, lead shots, etc, it might be a different story (and it would be glorious)
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  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Glytch's Avatar
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    Those who can, melee

    Those who can't, range
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    then again i'm pretty sure you're smarter then the average dumbass

  20. #20
    I blinked in mists pvp when a ragtag group of warriors were approaching, couldn't break the root and I died, 1 second flat, looked at the breakdown, 12k 100blades damage. I'll take a rifle warrior all day, I can self heal past that nonsense.

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