Thread: Prot PvP in MoP

  1. #1

    Prot PvP in MoP

    Holas mi Amigos! I was wondering if prot was looking some what competitive in MoP. I always loved the idea of pvp tanks and looking at the spells/talents involving prot, could they very well be specialized as a tank/off healer in pvp? Aside from my self interest and desirable play style, what are your guy's feed back on them in the future?

  2. #2
    It's true that now there are a lot of pvp oriented talents you could take as prot or any spec. However, I fear that Prot will remain the weakest spec for PvP by far. Tanks in WoW were never great in pvp (possibly DK excepted) but the removal of vengeance meant they were for fun only, not competitive. I don't see that 5.0.4 has changed that. If anything, prot damage with no vengeance is lower than pre-patch - shotr hits much weaker. They have tweaked prot damage so it is lower in 5 mans (and even lower soloing) while competitive with real dps in 25 mans (a change that makes me think of a tail wagging a dog, but there you go...).

    I played prot pvp in random BGs and Tol Barad only, doing enough grinding to get full Conquest gear. I had a surprising amount of fun, so it is viable although I suspect that I was strongly buffed by having better gear than many opponents. But after the patch, I felt my damage had dipped too low and so reluctantly tried Ret. Ret now feels great in casual PvP: you have a lot more holy power than before and self-healing through wog seems tremendous. I've now made my offspec Ret with pvp talents for fun; I'll also use it for MoP questing.

    I really would like Prot to be competitive in PvP (outside of narrow flag carrying role), but Blizzard just seems set against it for no good reason I can fathom (Warhammer Online and SWTOR managed it fine).

  3. #3
    GC stated somewhere that they don't want tank specs to play dps roles in pvp and that their damage will always be low.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    GC stated somewhere that they don't want tank specs to play dps roles in pvp and that their damage will always be low.
    That's fine, but it's as if they don't want tank spec to play any role (beyond possible flag carrier).

    A lot of pvp ends up as something like a duel, in which lower tank spec dps could be compensated by higher survivability. But the balance seems a little out of whack now - tank specs do may be 1/3 of the dps of proper dps but aren't 3x as survivable.

    Even if you balance dps and survivability, in group pvp, players will tend just to ignore the tank and burn the more dangerous opponent. That's the reason some other games give tank abilities some role in pvp - like taunts debuffing damage or "guarding" others, to share some of their damage.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaga View Post
    GC stated somewhere that they don't want tank specs to play dps roles in pvp and that their damage will always be low.
    My problem with this is that... if their DPS is low, and if they pretty much have crappy baseline heals without the goodies that Holy gets (and no more Word of Glory), then what exactly do they intend for Prot to do in PvP? Stand there and look tough, and get avoided or CCed by everyone else? Or like econ21 said, they just burn the more dangerous targets first. The only strategical use is either running the flag or "sitting on a flag/capture point" to defend it. More importantly, it isn't that fun for the player, and I thought Blizzard would care about that. Do they really just not want Prot to do much in PvP?

    With a spec name like Protection, you'd think they would be able to do more to actively protect their teammates. The [change with Eternal Flame to make WoG a HoT seems useless, don't know why anyone would take that.] Forgive me if I don't have enough knowledge on the subject, as I don't personally play a Paladin, but I've always played alongside a Prot one in PvP. This is just my perspective.
    Last edited by Aerofluff; 2012-09-12 at 12:32 PM.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerofluff View Post
    The removal of WoG is just kinda... surprising.
    Not really. Since it never happened.

    On topic, i dont think prot will be used for rated pvp. Compared to ret, prot has more defence and less damage. The higher survivability isnt much useful if youre not the one being attacked. For RBG's there are better tanks.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ipoststuff View Post
    Not really. Since it never happened.

    On topic, i dont think prot will be used for rated pvp. Compared to ret, prot has more defence and less damage. The higher survivability isnt much useful if youre not the one being attacked. For RBG's there are better tanks.
    The 5.0 changes will make prot a semi viable RBG tank. They still have mobility issues and still have problems getting out of a smoke bomb. The new mobility talents help some what though. WoG makes for a pretty nice anti burst self heal as well as the insta cast Flash of Light.

    I'm really hoping this season I'll be able to get a spot in some RBGs as a tank instead of begging groups to get in as Ret. If not then I'll be doing RBGs on my warrior.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerofluff View Post
    The [change with Eternal Flame to make WoG a HoT seems useless, don't know why anyone would take that.] Forgive me if I don't have enough knowledge on the subject, as I don't personally play a Paladin, but I've always played alongside a Prot one in PvP. This is just my perspective.
    Eternal Flame is actually a really strong ability, much more so that WoG is. Heals for a shit ton more, and the hot is in some cases nice, but generally fairly useless. It's just the fact that the base heal is consistent. To get a large WoG off you need to have 3+ stacks of BoG, while Eternal Flame heals for that nice amount without any stacks. A relatively nice choice for PvP, in my opinion.

  9. #9
    I took Eternal Flame and liked it, but then I went for the glyph of harsh words and discovered it does not work with Eternal Flame. I think the glyph is probably more important for casual PvP (Tol Barad, random BGs) as it hits harder than ShotR and I typically find other players don't want to stand toe to toe with me, so a ranged HoPo finisher is important.

    I switched EF for SS but reading on this forum, it sounds like SH is better for PvP.

  10. #10
    prot paladins are not viable in pvp. stop asking for it. tanking is a pve role and has no place in pvp.

    This wasn't helpful or constructive. If you don't like the topic, you don't have to post. - Malthanis

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-12 at 08:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    prot paladins are not viable in pvp. stop asking for it. tanking is a pve role and has no place in pvp.

    This wasn't helpful or constructive. If you don't like the topic, you don't have to post. - Malthanis

    if you look in my post history you will have seen i've made a few detailed posts about the viability of prot paladins in pvp. i'm frankly a bit sick of explaining the same thing to people every few months.

    its NOT viable. it doesn't work. there shouldn't be any more do it.
    Last edited by Malthanis; 2012-09-12 at 07:53 PM.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  11. #11
    With the self healing we can do and the movement abilities we can spec into, along with the 1 min cd's we have, we HAVE become more viable, but at high levels of RBG's warriors will still be the top dogs. But saying we are not viable at all is incredible closed minded, all you need to do is look at our new tool kit, we can do some thing now.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    If you look in my post history you will have seen i've made a few detailed posts about the viability of prot paladins in pvp. i'm frankly a bit sick of explaining the same thing to people every few months.
    Um, then don't. Nobody forced you to explain anything. Apparently your posts weren't amazing enough for others to remember and reference in this thread, so there is still work to be done!

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