Ret (and melee in general) a liability in MoP raids?

[Deleted]

I really do not agree with some of the thoughts and feedback in this thread. Basically the bottom line of this thread is that melee get it harder than ranged? Generally speaking ofcourse they do and ofcourse they should also. There should be more running away or avoiding things for melee as that is a key part of been a decent melee? Anyone can stand there and press a rotation in order without moving (hense decent ranged players are easy to come by) - Melee requires a little more reactiveness compared with ranged so been a decent melee is about maintaining maximum uptime whilst keeping up with the rotation (that is why decent melee are more difficult to come accross than decent ranged - GENERALLY SPEAKING)

If any melee are not happy at been melee - become ranged

Why?

Melee dmg = short rotation/priority system... very shord cd (1m30s/2m)... at least 10% overall dmg >ranged dps
Ranged dps = long rotations/priority system... long cds(3m+/5m)... at least 10% overall dmg <melee
(assuming a Patchwork fight)
Currently:
Ranged are even toppin Patchwork fights... what's the point in bringin some melee?
I mean, seriously, why do u want a melee over a ranged if not for a buff or a cd?
And why everybody assumes ranged are idiots, melee good players so u bring 'em?

melee are very often complete trash until the nerfs start happening.

Strongly agree...

[Tangra]

Didn't the fact that we were able to constantly stay on the boss during all movement make up for the fact that we were in front of him for the first 3 phases? Ranged classes lost a lot of DPS having to move so much and not being able to hard cast spells.

The later phases introduced some really nasty anti-melee mechanics. I would watch a video if you haven't done heroic.

[silvertitan]

You will def need to play better to compensate for some of the fight's but everything will be doable with some melee in the group.

[Freia]

Yes, ICC was very melee friendly. We didn't have to move much, it was the casters that kept having to move.

That was only true for Saurfang and Festergut (on regular).

[Bonkura]

The later phases introduced some really nasty anti-melee mechanics. I would watch a video if you haven't done heroic.

Try to be more arrogant plz.

[Tangra]

Try to be more arrogant plz.

What? I was just saying it would take a while to explain and I had to go at the time... lol... and from your questions it was hard to tell if you had heroic experience or just normal, you never mentioned a single heroic mechanic in your post. I guess I am arrogant for assuming that anyone who has actually done the fight (when it was hard) would immediately understand why melee are virtually useless on it.

[Bonkura]

What? I was just saying it would take a while to explain and I had to go at the time... lol

Well you worded it in a way to make it sound like I haven't done the fight when I did it back in 4.2. But you're welcome to explain what you meant that is making it that much worse for melee than ranged.

[Tangra]

You will def need to play better to compensate for some of the fight's but everything will be doable with some melee in the group.

Yeah after they nerf it by 10%...

---------- Post added 2012-09-14 at 07:42 PM ----------

Well you worded it in a way to make it sound like I haven't done the fight when I did it back in 4.2. But you're welcome to explain what you meant that is making it that much worse for melee than ranged.

The seeds that explode and kill you if you don't kill them at range... the rotating wave of fire on the ground that makes you run back and forth, the adds that explode when they hit the hammer, which spawn at random places that melee have to run to, as well as the extreme potency of knock-backs against them, something that only ranged dps had... the whole fight was best done with nothing but boomkins and ele shamans, and a few random people to provide the other buffs... not to mention that at the time ranged were doing more damage than melee on even patchwerk type fights... hence melee attack power being buffed to 20% in DS...

[ProteinShake]

Having tested all the encounters on beta I can say your concern is valid. Most of the fights definitely favor ranged multi dotters, and classes with better aoe than us. Melee-wise theres also not much of a reason to bring a ret over a rogue when they can just flip blade flurry on and get a 50% damage increase. There's a few fights where burst is useful and of course we will have our use on those, but other than that i'm anticipating a good amount of sitting on the bench.

If you are part of a more casual raid group I wouldn't worry about it, but my guild runs a 12 man roster for flexible comps, and having finished US 5th in DS 10 man, the bar only gets raised higher and higher.

Does this mean moonkins will shine next tier?

[Bonkura]

Yeah after they nerf it by 10%...

---------- Post added 2012-09-14 at 07:42 PM ----------



The seeds that explode and kill you if you don't kill them at range... the rotating wave of fire on the ground that makes you run back and forth, the adds that explode when they hit the hammer, which spawn at random places that melee have to run to, as well as the extreme potency of knock-backs against them, something that only ranged dps had... the whole fight was best done with nothing but boomkins and ele shamans, and a few random people to provide the other buffs... not to mention that at the time ranged were doing more damage than melee on even patchwerk type fights... hence melee attack power being buffed to 20% in DS...

seeds: kiting your own ad isn't hard but sure we didn't bring any ranged AoE so melees were not preferred for that reason.
world of flames: np, you're still in melee range even if you have to move back
son of flames: glyphed holy wrath... gg?

I thought you meant something about P4. sure I have no idea how the fight was for Ret in the beginning of 4.2 because I didn't do it that early, but in my eyes Rets were still pretty useful at that fight. overall the fight was easier for melee, just lacking the utility when shit was still hard.