KKK Leader and Civil War General statue controversy

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

derp

you just enacted godwin's law so you have no argument any longer

Godwin's Law merely states that a discussion will end up including Nazis if it is allowed to go on long enough. It says NOTHING about the validity of the posts that including references to Nazis.

[Spectral]

This doesn't seem to be on public land; if it's not, there's no legal issue.

As a moral issue, I find glorifying Forrest quite unpleasant, but I take a much more dim view of the Confederacy than do most Americans (particularly Southerners). While his role in the KKK is completely indefensible, I could understand why someone would point to his war hero status while setting aside his later deeds.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

This doesn't seem to be on public land; if it's not, there's no legal issue.

As a moral issue, I find glorifying Forrest quite unpleasant, but I take a much more dim view of the Confederacy than do most Americans (particularly Southerners). While his role in the KKK is completely indefensible, I could understand why someone would point to his war hero status while setting aside his later deeds.

Part of the controversy arises from acts that he committed during the war.

[Wildtree]

derp

you just enacted godwin's law so you have no argument any longer

lol I don't think so...
Read closer. They defend something that should be and is unacceptable, just because the guy had some role during the civil war and won a few battles for the loser side.
Plus they brought Hitler into the debate...
You know, we in Europe don't just erect statues, monuments, busts or even just signs for just about everyone who had a more or lesser role in something.
We are just quite a lot more picky and give honor to who deserves it. And if they screwed up somewhere in that line, they don't receive it..
That's just that...
If you glorify crime by letting monuments be erected, you open the door for the very breeding ground of such ideologies. One day they can lead to an outbreak again, and people may die over it again.... Is that worth the risk?

[s810]

Godwin's Law merely states that a discussion will end up including Nazis if it is allowed to go on long enough. It says NOTHING about the validity of the posts that including references to Nazis.

nazi's have nothing to do with the argument and is purely an appeal to emotions

aka, if you support a statue of forrest then you must be a nazi also

the fact rommel doesn't have a staue means SFA to do with this so bringing it up is stupid

You know, we in Europe don't just erect statues, monuments, busts or even just signs for just about everyone who had a more or lesser role in something.
We are just quite a lot more picky and give honor to who deserves it. And if they screwed up somewhere in that line, they don't receive it..

oh great a european, so your making a drama about something that has nothing to do with your or will have any effect on your life.

[Spectral]

Part of the controversy arises from acts that he committed during the war.

This is surely in dispute though, even among credible historians. We don't really know if he was a war criminal or not. My own bias leans towards thinking that he was (after all, he was a major founding member of one of the most vile terrorist organizations ever to exist), but I can understand that not everyone thinks this is the case, and some people focus strictly on his military triumphs.

[Tmbryant91]

Isn't that the guy that Forest Gump got his name from?

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

nazi's have nothing to do with the argument and is purely an appeal to emotions

aka, if you support a statue of forrest then you must be a nazi also

the fact rommel doesn't have a staue means SFA to do with this so bringing it up is stupid



oh great a european, so your making a drama about something that has nothing to do with your or will have any effect on your life.

Not only did you fail to understand the point of his post, but you're a bigot. I don't think you'll last very long here if you go around trying argue points that you don't understand using things (like Godwin's Law) that you don't understand, all the while insulting people based on where they live.

[s810]

Not only did you fail to understand the point of his post, but you're a bigot. I don't think you'll last very long here if you go around trying argue points that you don't understand using things (like Godwin's Law) that you don't understand, all the while insulting people based on where they live.

lmao, a bigot for disagreeing with someone

priceless

[Wildtree]

nazi's have nothing to do with the argument and is purely an appeal to emotions

aka, if you support a statue of forrest then you must be a nazi also

the fact rommel doesn't have a staue means SFA to do with this so bringing it up is stupid

you didn't understand lick, did you?
Drop the "you must be a nazi".
I write again. slow. so maybe your slow thinking process can catch up....

I compared 2 Soldiers... 2 Generals...
Both have been given credit for their achievements during the wars they both fought.
Both have committed crimes.
One of them did not receive any kind of monument, statue, bust or the like. Just a memorial plate at the place he died. Because of the crimes he took part in.
The other one received a monument with a bust on top and his titles, including the ones with which he committed the crimes engraved onto the monument.

See the discrepancy now?

[s810]

you didn't understand lick, did you?
Drop the "you must be a nazi".
I write again. slow. so maybe your slow thinking process can catch up....

I compared 2 Soldiers... 2 Generals...
Both have been given credit for their achievements during the wars they both fought.
Both have committed crimes.
One of them did not receive any kind of monument, statue, bust or the like. Just a memorial plate at the place he died. Because of the crimes he took part in.
The other one received a monument with a bust on top and his titles, including the ones with which he committed the crimes engraved onto the monument.

See the discrepancy now?

no because there hasn't been a statue made for every single military general in history

and it's only "alleged crimes"

and if someone wanted to make a statue for rommel and put it on their own property then they can do that to

anyway it's a matter of perspective, if the north had lost the war then putting up a statue of Ulysses S. Grant would be seen as "disrespectful" to the masses today

[Wildtree]

no because there hasn't been a statue made for every single military general in history

and it's only "alleged crimes"

and if someone wanted to make a statue for rommel and put it on their own property then they can do that to

In Germany they can't... Germans aren't hypocrite enough for that.......
Other than that, it's hopeless to discuss with you. You not getting it anyway.

[Armourboy]

you didn't understand lick, did you?
Drop the "you must be a nazi".
I write again. slow. so maybe your slow thinking process can catch up....

I compared 2 Soldiers... 2 Generals...
Both have been given credit for their achievements during the wars they both fought.
Both have committed crimes.
One of them did not receive any kind of monument, statue, bust or the like. Just a memorial plate at the place he died. Because of the crimes he took part in.
The other one received a monument with a bust on top and his titles, including the ones with which he committed the crimes engraved onto the monument.

See the discrepancy now?

The problem is you are seeing things through European eyes. The South in the US is such a strong region that it literally still could be its own country. We have different takes, beliefs, and views on things. Oddly enough, I'm guessing most Southerners would be perfectly ok with Rommel having a big monument to him, we understand that the man was much more than a Nazi.

The thing that you must realize is that in the South there is a wide variety of heroes and legends. Some are really great people that everyone can agree with all across the country and world, some not so much, but they are still ours. In the Southern tradition, Forrest stands up with Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Andrew Jackson, Martin Luther King, Thomas Jefferson, etc. and while they may not all be of the same greatness or of the same moral standing, they are ours. Unless you have lived here you will never understand. As we have told the Yankees for years, if you don't like our business then stay the hell out of it.

[Spectral]

In Germany they can't... Germans aren't hypocrite enough for that.......
Other than that, it's hopeless to discuss with you. You not getting it anyway.

Right, we know, not every country extends freedom of speech as far as the United States does. I'm not sure why you think German laws apply in the US though.

[poser765]

In Germany they can't... Germans aren't hypocrite enough for that.......
Other than that, it's hopeless to discuss with you. You not getting it anyway.

So again...you are advocating the government being able to force you to remove something from your property simply because some might see it as bad taste? My friend, does that really not scare you?

[Deleted]

Well, since, as stated, it's not on PUBLIC land then there really is nothing people should do about it.

Whether or not his status as a general should be glorified despite the horrible acts he has committed is kind of a moral debate I doubt would be solved in the foreseeable future.

My take (as a non-American yes, sue me): Crediting someone for their military prowess is okay. Raising a statue/bust in honour of someone that committed the kind of atrocious acts this man committed is, honestly, absolutely horrendous. It does come out as glorifying the man himself, all positives and negatives included but to each their own, I guess. (I don't think the government should force you to bring it down, but I would still find you deserving of a couple insults).

[Kalyyn]

The statue itself is part of the area's history. It feels counterproductive to take it down.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

The statue itself is part of the area's history. It feels counterproductive to take it down.

My fence is part of my area's history. Being "part of the history" doesn't mean anything unless quantified in some positive way.

[Letmesleep]

An unfortunate reality of the US is that racism is still alive. No matter how far we've come as a nation, it still has a small foothold. These kinds of people are openly rebuked by the American public, but you can't ever fully kill off racism. If you're ever going to find tolerated racism in America, I personally feel you're going to find it in the South. In no way shape or form is anyone going to drag a black man through the streets, but there is still some animosity towards blacks there. One thing I should make clear is that many southern states are Republican but not all Republicans are racists. Seeing how my folks happen to be both Republicans AND Christians, I can confirm that racism is not inherent to either of those groups.

[Kalyyn]

Wait, did I hear that Rommel doesn't have any statues? Why the hell not? He's kind of a big deal. You know, Desert Fox and all.

But then, I think that all great warriors should be commemorated, regardless of who or what they fought for.

---------- Post added 2012-09-13 at 12:58 AM ----------

My fence is part of my area's history. Being "part of the history" doesn't mean anything unless quantified in some positive way.

So we're okay with whitewashing history now? We just gonna have American history re-written by Disney studios while we're at it?