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  1. #1
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Rotation/How to use Taste for Blood

    In my opinion Warriors seem a lot more complex with this 5.0.4 patch. You have to pay much more attention to what spells you are using and how to use up your rage. And that's good. I'm still trying to figure out if what I'm doing is 100% correct or not, but I think I'm getting the hang of it. I could be wrong, so please, let me know if I am. (The following just covers a basic damage rotation without any specific situational spells, including CS.)

    Priority: Mortal strike > Overpower > Slam
    Rage dump: Slam > Heroic Strike

    Rotation without any TFB stacks: Mortal strike > Overpower > Slam (Above 60 rage?)Throw in a > Heroic Strike (If you don't have stacks)
    Rotation with at least 2 stacks of TFB (Because 2 stacks of TFB makes HS better than slam?): Mortal strike > Overpower > Keep using slam & keep using overpower to see if you can build TFB stacks higher until TFB runs out and then use Heroic Strike.

    I'd appreciate any feedback. (Because writing that out makes me think I'm over complicating things. However, all the above is just
    information that I have gathered, and what I think seems to make sense.)

    Edit: Think I'm doing something wrong. Before patch 5.0.4 there wasn't much to do and most of the time you were rage starved. Now, I feel like theres too much you have to do. There's like 2 or more globals worth of time were I'm trying to catch up. Trying to catch up with OP procs and mortal strike to keep TFB up I miss out on Colossus smash and at that time I'm basically raged cap, without enough time to slam worrying about all the other things I've got to keep up.
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-09-12 at 07:14 PM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  2. #2
    Yes, Heroic Strike with 2 stacks of TFB hits harder than slam. I believe CS, DR, and SB if you choose it are ahead of your normal priority, but your priority itself is correct.

    However, unless you're having ungodly good luck with procs and such, it sounds like you are doing something wrong. Are you using heroic strike with 90+ rage? Keeping CS your top priority when it's up? I can't imagine what could be happening if you have too much to do, even with DR and SB, and using heroic throw and battle shout to fill in gaps, I'm still having quite a few gaps in my rotation at 90 on the beta.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    Yes, Heroic Strike with 2 stacks of TFB hits harder than slam. I believe CS, DR, and SB if you choose it are ahead of your normal priority, but your priority itself is correct.

    However, unless you're having ungodly good luck with procs and such, it sounds like you are doing something wrong. Are you using heroic strike with 90+ rage? Keeping CS your top priority when it's up? I can't imagine what could be happening if you have too much to do, even with DR and SB, and using heroic throw and battle shout to fill in gaps, I'm still having quite a few gaps in my rotation at 90 on the beta.
    I use heroic strike if I'm above 60 rage or I've got 2 or more stacks of TFB and TFB is about to end. I don't understand how you can have gaps in your rotation. Let's say I open with a charge > Mortal strike > Colossus Smash> Overpower > Slam. My main issue is when OP procs too much. I have so much to do at that point. MS will be off cool down, CS might be up, I'll have a decent amount of rage, I can't use slam because I need to keep using OP to stack TFB. There's just a whole bunch of stuff that I need to keep up which literally makes me go into tunnel vision, which I hate. I might make a video showing my issue.

    Ugh, I hate this. I hate how there is never a decent guide that just shows you what you are supposed to do. It's always the same with warriors. I almost feel like giving up on my Warrior because of this feeling that I need to fight against GCD's. It's like...okay there is OP, Slam, MS and CS up now and I can only choose 1 when I have stacks. There is literally never a point when I'm not spamming every button incredibly fast trying to keep up. Every second there is at least 2 things you need to hit. :/

    Okay I made a quick video that should show you anything you need to see. I hope it's not too hard to watch, I lessened the quality for a faster upload speed.
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-09-12 at 09:10 PM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  4. #4
    Regarding the video, noticed 5 gaps of 1.5 seconds where you had literally nothing to do, watching your rage there would've been 6 at the end, but you stopped attacking there. Having a gap in our rotation almost every 20 seconds while hitting literally everything at our disposal is completely unreasonable, and it would only be more horrible with worse luck.

    I save heroic strike for 90+ rage or two stacks, because the basic rotation is MS > OP > Slam > Slam > MS, repeat, and that uses 60 rage. Using heroic strike at any less would often rage starve me. I also notices 4 TFB procs, and 6 Sudden Death procs, which seems like a more than healthy amount of procs. I found myself averaging roughly half that over a 2 minute fight, but that might just be me.

    Either way, you had a great amount of procs, and was able to use everything at your disposal and you still had several gaps. Now imagine someone who doesn't get as lucky, or a new warrior that doesn't know to use those filler skills, it would be even worse. I personally do not find that good design.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    Regarding the video, noticed 5 gaps of 1.5 seconds where you had literally nothing to do, watching your rage there would've been 6 at the end, but you stopped attacking there. Having a gap in our rotation almost every 20 seconds while hitting literally everything at our disposal is completely unreasonable, and it would only be more horrible with worse luck.

    I save heroic strike for 90+ rage or two stacks, because the basic rotation is MS > OP > Slam > Slam > MS, repeat, and that uses 60 rage. Using heroic strike at any less would often rage starve me. I also notices 4 TFB procs, and 6 Sudden Death procs, which seems like a more than healthy amount of procs. I found myself averaging roughly half that over a 2 minute fight, but that might just be me.

    Either way, you had a great amount of procs, and was able to use everything at your disposal and you still had several gaps. Now imagine someone who doesn't get as lucky, or a new warrior that doesn't know to use those filler skills, it would be even worse. I personally do not find that good design.
    I see what you mean, and I'm sorry for overexaggerating, but that's something I've noticed twice now and excuse me because I'm a little confused thinking about all of this, but are you saying that if someone had less porcs they'd have more or less to do? Also, you are never really rage starved because MS costs no rage. My heads all screwed up at the minute because obviously I'm not good with this stuff, but would you say that what I was doing in the video was more or less what I should be doing?
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  6. #6
    High Overlord Rustynip's Avatar
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    Ok so problems I see with this video:

    1) You're hitting the dummy from the front. Even if its a level 85 one, it's still bad practice.
    2) You're clipping CS. I'd suggest getting an addon to show when the debuff is on your target.
    3) Try to use up your TfB stacks while CS is up. I think you only did it once. It doesn't matter if you only have 2 or so. Its better to use it during a CS than to hope and pray for RNG on Sudden Death and OP procs.
    4) I didn't see you making use of Berserker Rage for either the damage increase or for the rage gain. Try and track when you're enraged and line up BR so that you can keep the uptime as high as possible.
    5) If you're not already, USE GLYPH OF UNENDING RAGE. Its fantastic. You said you're using HS at 60+ rage. That's cutting it kind of close and keeping you sitting at around 15-30 rage. Try to pool more so that if you need to HS at the last second, you'll always have enough.

    Another thing to remember is that only 2 of our 5 rotational abilities cost rage so make sure you're not over capping in raids by not hitting HS if you're fishing for TfB procs. Hitting HS to prevent yourself from going over 120 rage far outweighs staying at rage cap just to hopefully get another TfB stack.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustynip View Post
    Ok so problems I see with this video:

    1) You're hitting the dummy from the front. Even if its a level 85 one, it's still bad practice.
    2) You're clipping CS. I'd suggest getting an addon to show when the debuff is on your target.
    3) Try to use up your TfB stacks while CS is up. I think you only did it once. It doesn't matter if you only have 2 or so. Its better to use it during a CS than to hope and pray for RNG on Sudden Death and OP procs.
    4) I didn't see you making use of Berserker Rage for either the damage increase or for the rage gain. Try and track when you're enraged and line up BR so that you can keep the uptime as high as possible.
    5) If you're not already, USE GLYPH OF UNENDING RAGE. Its fantastic. You said you're using HS at 60+ rage. That's cutting it kind of close and keeping you sitting at around 15-30 rage. Try to pool more so that if you need to HS at the last second, you'll always have enough.

    Another thing to remember is that only 2 of our 5 rotational abilities cost rage so make sure you're not over capping in raids by not hitting HS if you're fishing for TfB procs. Hitting HS to prevent yourself from going over 120 rage far outweighs staying at rage cap just to hopefully get another TfB stack.
    Thanks for the tips. However:

    1. I was just trying to make a quick video so I didn't care about being optimal, lol.
    2/3. This is true, it's something I never check. I'll get an addon and pay closer attention to CS.
    4. I'm a pvper and very rarely PvE, so beserker rage to me is just a stun break.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-12 at 11:24 PM ----------

    I have a short question. Say if I have 2 stacks of TFB but it's about to run out and mortal strike is nearly up, how can you tell if it's a good idea to risk trying to get another OP in before TFB goes?

    Edit: Also in regards to number 3, what if I only have say...3 stacks and CS is about to run out. Surely it's better try to get a 4'th stack than do 3 stacks worth of damage in a cs?
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-09-12 at 10:34 PM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    I see what you mean, and I'm sorry for overexaggerating, but that's something I've noticed twice now and excuse me because I'm a little confused thinking about all of this, but are you saying that if someone had less porcs they'd have more or less to do? Also, you are never really rage starved because MS costs no rage. My heads all screwed up at the minute because obviously I'm not good with this stuff, but would you say that what I was doing in the video was more or less what I should be doing?

    I'm saying with less procs, there would be more gaps in your rotation, of you just sitting there waiting for something to happen of come off cooldown, which is just silly in my opinion. I find myself rage starved at times, since often I only have one melee swing in my usually rotation, followed by one MS for 10 rage, and without any procs whatsoever in a usual rotation, that's 20 rage coming in, and 60 rage going out, which is entirely unreasonable.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underskilled View Post
    I'm saying with less procs, there would be more gaps in your rotation, of you just sitting there waiting for something to happen of come off cooldown, which is just silly in my opinion. I find myself rage starved at times, since often I only have one melee swing in my usually rotation, followed by one MS for 10 rage, and without any procs whatsoever in a usual rotation, that's 20 rage coming in, and 60 rage going out, which is entirely unreasonable.
    There is something about how Warriors work now that's just too complex for me. I know what it is, and yet it's so many little things it's all just very confusing.

    I guess the same question to you. Say if I have 2 stacks of TFB but it's about to run out and mortal strike is nearly up, how can you tell if it's a good idea to risk trying to get another OP in before TFB goes?

    Edit: Also...another one. What's more important. Say I have MS and OP available at the same time with some stacks already, should I get the OP proc straight away or go for MS because it's higher in priority? Basically OP proc or MS?

    Edit: And...what if CS procs, OP procs, but my tfb timer is nearly out. Should I OP and try to get a bigger stack or CS?

    I think my mind works in a different way because all these stupid things become apparent to me.
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-09-12 at 11:00 PM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sareth View Post
    There is something about how Warriors work now that's just too complex for me. I know what it is, and yet it's so many little things it's all just very confusing....

    ....I think my mind works in a different way because all these stupid things become apparent to me.
    I think you're over complicating the whole process with situational questions and that's what's causing you to become so confused. It's really just a question of priority, like any rotation. You outlined it yourself in your first post:

    Priority: Mortal strike > Overpower > Slam
    Rage dump: Slam > Heroic Strike
    Then, for specifics

    Rotation without any TFB stacks: Mortal strike > Overpower > Slam > HS
    Rotation with at least 2 stacks of TFB: Mortal strike > Overpower > HS > Slam

    ^ This is the correct way to go about things with Arms.

    Instead of trying to think about every little situation, make a checklist:

    - Make sure your CS is always up, don't clip it, just use it first over any other ability.
    - MS > OP > Slam as you said, don't deviate from this if you can help it since MS will always give you rage and never spend it
    - 2x TFB HS > Slam, get a Power Aura / Weak Aura to light up when TFB is at 2 stacks, then hit HS when you would originally come around to using Slam. Follow this with Slam (since HS is off the GCD) and then MS should be back up
    - Regarding OP, again, refer to the rotation. It's important, but don't clip MS by using OP before it just to build stacks of TFB
    - Remember, Slam still hits really hard. Don't complicate worrying about TFB too much because you're essentially giving yourself a harder, more RNG based rotation to watch.
    - Use Battle Shout / Berserker Rage when you have downtime between MS or when you're low on rage. Try to time your Enrages (again, with a Power Aura / Weak Aura) so that when it's coming down, use BR to proc Enrage again.
    - As Rusty said earlier in the thread, make sure you're glyphing Unending Rage, it lets you pool 20 more rage off your MS allowing for more sustained use of HS
    - Make use of Deadly Calm to lower the cost of HS if you're bottoming out and can't use Slam
    Last edited by Indicterion; 2012-09-13 at 04:02 AM.

  11. #11
    People. Get your damn math right for the last time.

    Heroic Strike : 110% WD
    Slam : 215% WD

    With one stack of TFB, HS does 220% WD which is 5% WD more than a Slam.

    HS is always better than Slam with TFB>0. Period.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    People. Get your damn math right for the last time.

    Heroic Strike : 110% WD
    Slam : 215% WD

    With one stack of TFB, HS does 220% WD which is 5% WD more than a Slam.

    HS is always better than Slam with TFB>0. Period.
    But the bonus dmg is so much higher in slam so it makes more dmg than HS with one TFB stack

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    People. Get your damn math right for the last time.

    Heroic Strike : 110% WD
    Slam : 215% WD

    With one stack of TFB, HS does 220% WD which is 5% WD more than a Slam.

    HS is always better than Slam with TFB>0. Period.
    Not to be tedious or anything but, what of the additional damage?

    on live my slam is 215% + 2419 and my HS is 110% + 619.

    Or are those amounts immaterial?


    Ah Janir beat me to it :/

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Sareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indicterion View Post
    - Regarding OP, again, refer to the rotation. It's important, but don't clip MS by using OP before it just to build stacks of TFB
    Thank you for the post, but I'm not really understanding this line. How can you clip Mortal strike? Does that mean simply that if a OP proc comes up, still go for MS first? As someone else put it, 'Wouldn't it be worth prioritizing OP over MS until OP stops proc'ing off itself?'
    Last edited by Sareth; 2012-09-13 at 01:29 PM.
    'Lord Sargeras, sweep your molten fist through this world, so that it may be reborn in flames and darkness!'
    'So the light's vaunted justice has finally arrived.'
    'Boldly said. But I remain...unconvinced.'

    My Warrior

  15. #15
    My rule : You use HS and Slam BOTH. It's just about NOT delaying MS, and not being rage capped. If you have 2 stacks of TFB, fish for more stacks, and if it doesnt come, use HS before it goes off.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by slondon View Post
    Not to be tedious or anything but, what of the additional damage?

    on live my slam is 215% + 2419 and my HS is 110% + 619.

    Or are those amounts immaterial?


    Ah Janir beat me to it :/
    HS at 1 Stack of TFB : 220% + 1238.

    The Damage difference between a Slam and HS is (2.2WD+1238)-(2.15WD+2419) = (0.05*WD) - 1181

    My current average WD as per my Armory is (12985+16803)/2=14894

    Hence the damage difference becomes : ((5*14894)/100)-1181 = 744-1181= -437

    I proved myself wrong. Don't use HS at 1 stack unless you are going to rage cap. HS is only better than Slam at TFB>1.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    HS at 1 Stack of TFB : 220% + 1238.

    The Damage difference between a Slam and HS is (2.2WD+1238)-(2.15WD+2419) = (0.05*WD) - 1181

    My current average WD as per my Armory is (12985+16803)/2=14894

    Hence the damage difference becomes : ((5*14894)/100)-1181 = 744-1181= -437

    I proved myself wrong. Don't use HS at 1 stack unless you are going to rage cap. HS is only better than Slam at TFB>1.
    Kudos for admitting the mistake, thats not an easy feat

  18. #18
    Epic! GenaiTN's Avatar
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    I've just picked up my Warrior from 4.3 and I'm struggling to get TFB stacks... What is up with that?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    I've just picked up my Warrior from 4.3 and I'm struggling to get TFB stacks... What is up with that?
    Yeah its pretty shitty. Sometimes you will get 5 stacks in no time, sometimes you will barely reach 2 until its gone, sometimes you wont proc any TFB for 30 seconds period.

    We're all in the same boat!

  20. #20
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alianthos View Post
    Yeah its pretty shitty. Sometimes you will get 5 stacks in no time, sometimes you will barely reach 2 until its gone, sometimes you wont proc any TFB for 30 seconds period.

    We're all in the same boat!
    They should really call Taste for Blood, Pray for Jesus. Because you literally need to be blessed my Jesus himself to give you any decent amount during an encounter. I can go on a dummy and get a decent amount of TfB procs (I know it to be 30% chance for it) but when you go into a raid (I'm 8/8 HM who's been an arms warrior for a pretty long time) it seems out of 35 OP's I get 5 procs of TFB. It's retarded. I've just went fury because at least I can stack the heck out of crit and rely off of my BT getting a crit to proc RB and it's no where near as RNG based as Arms. At least I don't feel I'm at the mercy of one ability in Fury.

    It really sucks because I like the play style of arms 10X better, but you have to have the moon the stars align and Jesus himself to come down and give you his blessings, before TfB will proc.
    Last edited by Deathcries; 2012-09-14 at 11:40 AM.

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