1. #1

    Fury dps concerns

    http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic#BiS

    Take a look at the ranking. I know it's BiS and doesnt equal the experience ppl are actually having with their warriors. But to me it shows that fury and also arms warriors scale really bad with better gear. Most melee classes are at the bottom and like usual mages/warlocks are a fair bit ahead.

    I'm currently ilvl 512 and I already start to feel I have no chance beating ranged dps and feral druids on single target dps. Stacking as much crit/mastery as I can but my crit doesn't improve much thanks to all the haste/expertise om the items. currently at 25% crit and 22% mastery.

    Any suggestions or is anyone else feeling the same that fury dps just isn't good enough? I know some of the top guilds bring fury warriors, but I've looked at their gear most got the highest ilvl in their guild, but still they dont come close to topping dps in single target fights. far from most classes actually.

  2. #2
    Couple of reasons.

    - Ranged, in particular mages and warlocks, are indeed a bit strong at the moment. Nothing you can do about, be happy for your fellow guild members.
    - Fury is pretty okayish at the moment. Seeing you at 512 I can only assume you don't have proper weapons at the moment and melees do scale pretty well with weapons.
    Once you get decent weapons your dps will look a lot better.
    - Warriors are really tough to master and we are the class that requires the most actions per minute since so much stuff is off the global. Especially stance dancing to berserker stance to get a little extra rage and proper use of heroic leap are just few of many methods to increase your dps by a small margin.
    - Maybe you are looking at dps when you are wiping on a boss. Don't do that. So much dps comes from execute, especially for SMF that only kills where you actively executed proper on the boss mean something for realistic dps.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEnergy View Post
    Couple of reasons.

    - Ranged, in particular mages and warlocks, are indeed a bit strong at the moment. Nothing you can do about, be happy for your fellow guild members.
    - Fury is pretty okayish at the moment. Seeing you at 512 I can only assume you don't have proper weapons at the moment and melees do scale pretty well with weapons.
    Once you get decent weapons your dps will look a lot better.
    - Warriors are really tough to master and we are the class that requires the most actions per minute since so much stuff is off the global. Especially stance dancing to berserker stance to get a little extra rage and proper use of heroic leap are just few of many methods to increase your dps by a small margin.
    - Maybe you are looking at dps when you are wiping on a boss. Don't do that. So much dps comes from execute, especially for SMF that only kills where you actively executed proper on the boss mean something for realistic dps.
    Well I kinda feel useless, since I dont bring that much utility to the table except my dps. Demo banner and rallying cry is nice. But feral druids in my guild both do more dps around the same ilvl as me and has nicer utility with tranquility and Combat res. Feral druids in my guild seems to pull ahead like 20k dps on normal single target fights like megaera. I stance dance during Rampage on mageara, but still doesnt help much. I end up around 100-115k dps. My weaps are 522 MH and 504 OH atm as SMF

    I'm glad for warlocks for example since they do not bring that much for utility either. I just feel like dps warriors are quite a bit underdpsing for our utility. But what's more disappoining is that our gear scales so badly when looking at the sim craft rankings. That almost makes me hope no fury gear drop since the raid would benefit more if for example caster or agi gear dropped.

    I really love fury warrior because of the buttonmashing, what I don't like is that no matter how well you time your sequences it doesnt reward you in the end. And I just dont want to wine. Just thought for a while i've been doing things wrong, but well maybe I haven't.

  4. #4
    I have a feeling hes right. Just take a look at world of logs and look at the amount of fury warriors in the top 100 for each boss. its like they are nearly non existent. primary mages warlock and rogues seem to dominate the charts totally. and not by like 5% which could be for being dps only.
    i really thought getting owned by the rogue in my 25 man guild on jinrohk was due to me sucking and him playing really good. if i look at world of logs that doesnt seem to be the case at all.
    now i know that one shouldnt take wol too seriously (hurr durr 22 sec dark animus kill with 700k dps on one dpser or 90 sec durumu kill) but i think it reflects generell dps trends pretty well.
    there are many players on each class that play it near perfection thus if it is possible to rank high at least someone will. on megaera there are i think 2 warrior on the first page which are arms that infalted their dps by using sweeping strikes x.x

    its not like i feel worthless because there are serveral moments where high burst dps is needed which fury shines on (council for example) but i think the balance sucks a lot atm.

  5. #5
    We're good enough that you would not bring a bad "insert other class" over a good warrior at the moment, that's all i need to earn my raid time.

    Overall the balance is pretty good right now, it's the nature of dps lists what there has to be someone at the bottom, and someone at the top, but the gap between best and worst class is pretty damn close right now, compared with how some tiers have been in the past.

    (Granted assassination rogues are a bit of an exemption to that general statement)
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  6. #6
    Overall warriors are pretty mediocre. I don't think that anyone would really claim that you can match every other class on a consistent basis and I also feel that the scaling better than everyone thing is an overstatement. Add to that they I see absolutely no evidence that a nerf to execute was absolutely necessary.
    It's still not that bad as in being absolute rock bottom dps wise although I'd gladly take a better personal defensive cooldown or at least a rework of shieldwall to not drop dps to something around zero dps as I feel that warriors are in that regard the weakest melee class at the moment. Another issue I can see is the not that impressing tier bonuses and rppm being a mechanic not really favoring warriors.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Until top 10 guilds stop looking for warriors I won't worry.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    Well I kinda feel useless, since I dont bring that much utility to the table except my dps. Demo banner and rallying cry is nice. But feral druids in my guild both do more dps around the same ilvl as me and has nicer utility with tranquility and Combat res. Feral druids in my guild seems to pull ahead like 20k dps on normal single target fights like megaera. I stance dance during Rampage on mageara, but still doesnt help much. I end up around 100-115k dps. My weaps are 522 MH and 504 OH atm as SMF

    I'm glad for warlocks for example since they do not bring that much for utility either. I just feel like dps warriors are quite a bit underdpsing for our utility. But what's more disappoining is that our gear scales so badly when looking at the sim craft rankings. That almost makes me hope no fury gear drop since the raid would benefit more if for example caster or agi gear dropped.

    I really love fury warrior because of the buttonmashing, what I don't like is that no matter how well you time your sequences it doesnt reward you in the end. And I just dont want to wine. Just thought for a while i've been doing things wrong, but well maybe I haven't.
    I do think warrior utility is great. In nearly every fight I do use spells like safeguard, demo banner, disrupting shout piercing howl, shockwave, die by the sword clutch taunts etc. Especially Skull Banner is one of a kind cooldown only warriors do have. Line it up nicely with other warriors and heroism/bloodlust. Its a great deal for the whole raid.

    If you are looking for topping damage meters in every fight I guess it will be tough. You probably can't do that since there are no fights in ToT where a warriors really shines. No long execute phases etc. You need to perfecty execute your rotation/priority list with crit lucks and perfect timing to make top dps spots as a warrior these days.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Lushious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    Well I kinda feel useless, since I dont bring that much utility to the table except my dps. Demo banner and rallying cry is nice. But feral druids in my guild both do more dps around the same ilvl as me and has nicer utility with tranquility and Combat res. Feral druids in my guild seems to pull ahead like 20k dps on normal single target fights like megaera. I stance dance during Rampage on mageara, but still doesnt help much. I end up around 100-115k dps. My weaps are 522 MH and 504 OH atm as SMF

    I'm glad for warlocks for example since they do not bring that much for utility either. I just feel like dps warriors are quite a bit underdpsing for our utility. But what's more disappoining is that our gear scales so badly when looking at the sim craft rankings. That almost makes me hope no fury gear drop since the raid would benefit more if for example caster or agi gear dropped.

    I really love fury warrior because of the buttonmashing, what I don't like is that no matter how well you time your sequences it doesnt reward you in the end. And I just dont want to wine. Just thought for a while i've been doing things wrong, but well maybe I haven't.
    Wat. Does anyone really bring any utility in your world ?

  10. #10
    The Patient
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    Warriors are fine dps wise. With bad gear you can go Arms, and as soon you are above 515 Fury is really pulling ahead again. Pulling 100-115k with that kinda gear also means you have some major flaws in your rotation. I have worse gear and definately do more dps than that. Maybe you are not pooling Rage for CS Windows or are wasting RB proccs?
    Our lack of personal cooldowns is rather a problem than the dps, at least on 25man. For 10man Warriors are really nice for banners/RC since immunities are not as much needed there.

  11. #11
    I was around ilv 515 last week when we down mageara and did 125k dps. Rogue with 518 ilevel did 127k. DK did 133k.
    Was 5th out of 15 dps spots. Winning 2 warlocks also. I think we can do well in raids DPS wise.

    I was also top dps for my guild on N Jin'rokh. Beating rogue and DK. 176k twice in the last two normal modes we did.

    Fury is still able to top dps from what ive seen

  12. #12
    Fury DPS isn't amazingly high but to suggest warriors don't have strong utility is... odd to say the least. Fury is one of the best utility specs in the game. Shatter/skull banner is worth literally millions of damage every time you use them, rallying cry is one of the best defensive CDs brought by a dps spec and demo banner is nice as well. Every high ranking guild uses multiple warriors purely because of their utility.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by senturion View Post
    I was around ilv 515 last week when we down mageara and did 125k dps. Rogue with 518 ilevel did 127k. DK did 133k.
    Was 5th out of 15 dps spots. Winning 2 warlocks also. I think we can do well in raids DPS wise.

    I was also top dps for my guild on N Jin'rokh. Beating rogue and DK. 176k twice in the last two normal modes we did.

    Fury is still able to top dps from what ive seen
    Ive done around 175k on jin'rokh aswell. but thats about it. Only fights we're able to compete dps wise are either those who do predictable raid dmg like jin'rokh normal, or those with multiple adds like tortos. On maegra the raid dmg is low in the beginning so we cant benefit from it much and it feels kinda silly to depend on dmg taken when you at the same time use dmg reduction cds like die by the sword just to ease the job for the healers.

    We got nice burst dmg and decent aoe but when it comes to single target with no significant raid dmg we fall behind.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Galad View Post
    We're good enough that you would not bring a bad "insert other class" over a good warrior at the moment, that's all i need to earn my raid time.

    Overall the balance is pretty good right now, it's the nature of dps lists what there has to be someone at the bottom, and someone at the top, but the gap between best and worst class is pretty damn close right now, compared with how some tiers have been in the past.

    (Granted assassination rogues are a bit of an exemption to that general statement)
    Sadly this is for 25man only. Skull banner has a higher benefit there and it's easier to keep a melee without good defensive cooldowns alive. In 10man I've learned that being a warrior sucks from time to time. Why pick a warrior when you can use a rogue instead who can ignore most mechanics, take far less damage and deal more damage?

    In my case I'm slightly behind in gear but even in the same gear I'd understand if I was sat during progression on some bosses in favor of the rogue. With a lot of AoE damage, we could look great (berserker stance) but if the healers can't keep up, it's far easier to take a melee with better self cooldowns.

  15. #15
    For mageara, you need to perfect stance change plus max execute on each head. Pre-pot and Pot again during heroism phase. Should be able to do about 125k DPS at 515 gear level.

    Just had a good fight on Mageara:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6173&e=6652

    Quote Originally Posted by barackohmama View Post
    Ive done around 175k on jin'rokh aswell. but thats about it. Only fights we're able to compete dps wise are either those who do predictable raid dmg like jin'rokh normal, or those with multiple adds like tortos. On maegra the raid dmg is low in the beginning so we cant benefit from it much and it feels kinda silly to depend on dmg taken when you at the same time use dmg reduction cds like die by the sword just to ease the job for the healers.

    We got nice burst dmg and decent aoe but when it comes to single target with no significant raid dmg we fall behind.
    Last edited by senturion; 2013-04-03 at 04:48 PM.

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