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  1. #61
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VibrantViolet View Post
    Pretty much. I think of "not viable" as someone who won't dodge, or bring utility to a group in dungeons/PvP. Nothing to do with a certain class, it's all about who's playing it.
    I was speaking more on the level of "Let's do what Paragon does, and base all our decisions off .1% statistical differences in performance"
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinna View Post
    I'm playing and enjoying the Necro. I do notice that I'm slower at killing mobs than some other classes (I've seen dudes with massive swords run up and demolish mobs) but I don't mind as my character (Faluzure) is so themed towards necromancy that I can't really imagine playing something else. Sure, if the class reaches a point where it's totally unplayable (and people are refusing to group with me despite me being a good player) then I'd consider a reroll. I don't think Arenanet would let it get to that though. They have no reason why they would let one class fall flat on its face.

    I'm going to remain patient and see if things improve. I don't do much pvp, so in the strictest sense, class balance isn't a major threat to my enjoyment of the game. My current support build is really awesome (nearly OP) that I really have no issues with the game.
    I love my Necromancer. I have had a love/hate relationship for it, but since finding a good build, I'm happy with it. It is a bit frustrating in PvP, but I can wait until some changes are made. I am finding in PvE, though, I have more survivability then any other class I come across in dungeons. I am usually the last to die, if I die at all. Unless I get roflstomped by a group of mobs or something, though. I haven't been denied any dungeons because of my class yet. I actually bring a lot of utility to dungeon groups. I have AoE heals, Wells, condition removal for the group, and good damage. Any group should want that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-14 at 02:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I was speaking more on the level of "Let's do what Paragon does, and base all our decisions off .1% statistical differences in performance"
    Ahh gotcha. /charrs

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-14 at 02:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanic View Post
    You should always play what is fun, you should never play a FOTM class. Class balance can, and will change, and every class when played well can be competitive. You game for fun.... I don't understand why you would ever think about rolling a class that you don't have fun playing just because it's currently considered by some people to be the strongest.
    Quoted for truth! I think those of us that have played MMO's for a long time know this, and accept it. We know our class is going to be buffed and nerfed, and we adapt. It always makes me laugh when people ask, "What is the best class for PvP?" *rolls eyes*

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Last night, they nerfed Heartseeker like so:


    Fast enough for ya?
    Good this week maybe a minion buff will come out.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-14 at 03:27 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    The problem with his statement is that people have different measures of "viable" and "not viable" in their heads. There's Elementalists out there getting refused by groups because some people think they're "not viable" when other players feel that Elementalists are amazing in a group.

    "not viable" is just a phrase that, to me, means "people are elitist and need to shut up and play"
    To me viable means being able to try any combination of traits a class offers and still have it work. Like I mentioned I play a minonmancer and it should be able to kill just as fast a a signet GS warrior for example because neither offer much support and group buffs and are built for max DPS. Yet compared to the GS warrior a minionmancer might as well be a wet noodle. Since they did away with the holy trinity then all classes should be able to DPS and Support equally but that just isnt true.

    I was just under the assumption that guild wars didnt force people into cookie cutter builds but I guess I was wrong.
    Last edited by Lilly32; 2012-09-14 at 07:29 PM.

  4. #64
    How fun are Necro's? It's the only class I haven't tried.. Everything else bores me to tears.

  5. #65
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    I can care less about my viability I want fun, that's what I bought the game for and I tend to play with other like minded people and haven't had any problems with it, even in the game that shall not be named!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  6. #66
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    To me viable means being able to try any combination of traits a class offers and still have it work.
    And some people have different measurements of "have it work"

    It works. It gets the job done. You can complete the dungeon with any profession, in multiple different builds. That's absolutely inarguable.

    Where people start mis-using the word "viable" is where they start worrying about what's "best"
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  7. #67
    I'd weigh the thing up.

    I'll play the class I enjoy the most unless it's SO underpowered that It's frustrating to play to the point of being unenjoyable.

    If I still enjoy the class despite it being underpowered, then it's not underpowered enough to cause a problem.

  8. #68
    Banned Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    And some people have different measurements of "have it work"

    It works. It gets the job done. You can complete the dungeon with any profession, in multiple different builds. That's absolutely inarguable.

    Where people start mis-using the word "viable" is where they start worrying about what's "best"
    Quit nitpicking people's arguments who disagree with you. His language belies that he is expressing an opinion, much like 99% of everything on these boards. He didn't state anything to be a fact, he just told it how it is. He even went on to explain that to him, having it work means that you should be able to choose any playstyle and be just as effective of killing a mob.

    He has an entirely valid point to not be forced to kill things in 4x the amount of time, just because he thinks demon pets and necromancers are cool.

  9. #69
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    It's not nitpicking in the least. I'm expressing an opinion just as much as he is, so your post is hypocritical at best. And my opinion is that "not the best" does not mean "unviable"

    People keep looking at "oh noes, I'm "forced" to kill things slower than others" and acting like damage is the only thing that matters in this game.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    And some people have different measurements of "have it work"

    It works. It gets the job done. You can complete the dungeon with any profession, in multiple different builds. That's absolutely inarguable.

    Where people start mis-using the word "viable" is where they start worrying about what's "best"

    People in WoW during Wrath also use to put all 71 points into a single talent tree and either use the wrong gems or not gem at all. Did the groups these bads were in finish dungeons? Yes cause I had to carry a few of them. But it doesnt mean those people were viable cause they were doing sub 2k DPS. To me viable means being able to carry your weight. You dont have to be the best just dont slow the rest of us down or force us to carry you. Right now are all classes as a whole viable? Yes they absolutely are. But some classes only have one or 2 builds that actually make the class work. Whats the point of having 5 trait lines for every class if 3 of them are bad? All trait lines should have synergy no matter which traits you pick but they dont. Thats why some classes only have one or two ways to correctly play them. People should be able to come up with interesting trait builds by thinking outside the box and have them work, but thats just not the case for some classes.
    Last edited by Lilly32; 2012-09-14 at 09:38 PM.

  11. #71
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    People in WoW during Wrath also use to put all 71 points into a single talent tree and either use the wrong gems or not gem at all. Did the groups these bads were in finish dungeons? Yes cause I had to carry a few of them. But it doesnt mean those people were viable cause they were doing sub 2k DPS. To me viable means being able to carry your weight. Right now are all classes as a whole viable? Yes they absolutely are. But some classes only have one or 2 builds that actually make the class work. Whats the point of having 5 trait lines for every class if 3 of them are bad? All trait lines should have synergy but they dont. Thats why some classes only have one or two ways to correctly play them.
    That's not what I'm talking about in regards to builds that work vs builds that don't work.

    I'm talking about people are like "Elemental Shaman is worthless, just get an Arcane Mage."

    BTW, there's not a single trait line that's "bad" in that sense.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    BTW, there's not a single trait line that's "bad" in that sense.
    Maybe bad was the wrong word. Less useful I guess works better. Like right now the only way to play a Necro is either as a conditionmancer or using wells. Theres plenty of traits and utlities for minions but they are bad. Thats a fact. So playing a minionmancer wouldnt be viable because you sacrifice any utility skills for pets, that dont work, and you cant really DPS because again your pets dont work.

  13. #73
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    Like right now the only way to play a Necro is either as a conditionmancer or using wells.
    And I already have found this to be false. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  14. #74
    Banned Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    It's not nitpicking in the least. I'm expressing an opinion just as much as he is, so your post is hypocritical at best. And my opinion is that "not the best" does not mean "unviable"

    People keep looking at "oh noes, I'm "forced" to kill things slower than others" and acting like damage is the only thing that matters in this game.
    No, the post isn't hypocritical at all. You just said that people are misusing (without a hyphen, since you are LITERALLY misusing words) a word. You are telling people they are wrong. So clearly you are using his post as a basis for this argument, since you quoted it.

    It is entirely valid for people to feel shafted because their character doesn't come close to the damage and survival of other classes on an arbitrary basis. Games can be designed better than that, period.

  15. #75
    Pit Lord HBpapa's Avatar
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    You have to do what's fun for you.

    Two-button burst classes get boring for me pretty damn quick but at the same time classes with higher skill caps but low-ish damage aren't too fun either. Finding a good crossroad of the two has taken me quite a while to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Langy View Post
    How fun are Necro's? It's the only class I haven't tried.. Everything else bores me to tears.
    Try it out.

    I have lots of fun with it, but ymmv. I run a condition build (no minions) and in PvE its decent in 1v1 but really shines in 3v1 situations (pve), DEs, and WvW. Not a 'bursty' class but great sustained damage.
    Last edited by HBpapa; 2012-09-14 at 10:10 PM.
    Atheist, anti-theist, pro-gun, pro-Constitution, anti-racism, pro-gay rights, anti-war, anti-corporatism.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Dodrin View Post
    But seriously, how often does this happen? I've never run across a class in any MMO that simply wouldn't be accepted in PvE/PvP

    Feral druids back in Vanilla.

    Ret Paladins back in Vanilla.

    "Lol, u no warrior? Yeah, u no tank in mah raidz!"

  17. #77
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    It is entirely valid for people to feel shafted because their character doesn't come close to the damage and survival of other classes on an arbitrary basis. Games can be designed better than that, period.
    Problem with that is people are looking specifically at the damage, and nothing else.

    When they removed the holy trinity, that didn't remove tanking and healing and give everybody DPS specs. It gave everybody the capacity and the need to do all three.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  18. #78
    Banned Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Problem with that is people are looking specifically at the damage, and nothing else.

    When they removed the holy trinity, that didn't remove tanking and healing and give everybody DPS specs. It gave everybody the capacity and the need to do all three.
    Well I can't argue with that, but if you are doing a lot of solo play you probably wouldn't factor that anyways. I do understand, MMO, but a lot of people still like being efficiently self sufficient.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    And I already have found this to be false. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
    So what build using minions can kill as fast as a signet warrior or a ranger?

  20. #80
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    So what build using minions can kill as fast as a signet warrior or a ranger?
    Who said anything about minions? I don't plan on using minions OR corruptions!

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-14 at 07:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Well I can't argue with that, but if you are doing a lot of solo play you probably wouldn't factor that anyways. I do understand, MMO, but a lot of people still like being efficiently self sufficient.
    Eh. I like being self-sufficient even in WoW raids. It's part of why I love Enhancemen Shaman and Ret Pallies.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

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